might as well scrap copyright altogether and let rappers ruin everything.

kraftwerk loose sampling case

I'm sure dr dre and the likes will be over the moon.

hey numnuts, you know the artist who is being sampled gets royalties right??? It's not like they're just taking the sample for nothing.

J

No Holiday wrote: hey numnuts, you know the artist who is being sampled gets royalties right??? It's not like they're just taking the sample for nothing.

J

And if the creative ones do not WANT this?

So, you wouldn't mind getting assfucked by a herd of wild stallions as long as you got your coin?

Doctor? wrote:

No Holiday wrote: hey numnuts, you know the artist who is being sampled gets royalties right??? It's not like they're just taking the sample for nothing.

J

And if the creative ones do not WANT this?

So, you wouldn't mind getting assfucked by a herd of wild stallions as long as you got your coin?

Sampling in itself can be an art, if done creatively. I'm not talking about those crappy Puff Daddy songs of the late 90s that jacked riffs straight from David Bowie and the Police, but real hiphop. For example, Jay Z's song "Kingdom Come" samples the same song that MC Hammer's You Can't Touch This sampled, but completely flips it and changes it up and makes it its own. Also, you've heard of the dust brothers right? They are known for their innovative sampling techniques. They produced some of the most influential albums ever, like Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys and Odelay by Beck.

Hell, go on my site and listen to "DECEPTIVE" (myspace.com/jbaron82). We sample an AIR song and completely flip it around and do something really creative and cool with it. It's WHAT YOU DO with the sample that shows if you are creative or not.

J

No Holiday wrote: It's WHAT YOU DO with the sample that shows if you are creative or not.

J

I'd say its making the original sample that shows if yoer creative or not.

Here at NOOL it is eternally 1979 and hip-hop "isn't really music".

Whatever next: an indie vs. house music 'war'????

What a pile of rancid old cock.

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote:

Whatever next: an indie vs. house music 'war'????

YES!

choose your weapons. i bags mbv's ear-splintering reverb.

and i agree with NH. am i barred?

El Jarvo wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote: kraftwerk loose sampling case

I'm sure dr dre and the likes will be over the moon.

Without Kraftwerk samples the world wouldn't have 'Planet Rock' though.

What about Coldplay? Total rip-off of Computer Love for one of their tracks. Most galling thing was that they did that in the 'introductions' round on Never Mind The Buzzcocks last year and everyone to a man said Coldplay when that melody was played! I'd have thought Phil Jupitus, at the very least, would've stood up and said Kraftwerk!!

Was that digital sampling? Or "Organic Sampling" (as my mate calls plain old fashion song stealing)? Anyway, this is exactly the kind of thing that bothers me too.

Now, as a huge ever growing pulsating orb fan that rules from the centre of the ultraverse, (and further more, one that has 4 hardware and endless software samplers).....I can't get on my high horse about sampling, it CAN be very clever etc. However I think that (up to a point) the original artist whould have some form of veto.....particularly in the case of people just lifting a whole track, dropping a beat on it and shouting over it. (it probably shouldn't go as far as the example of Rickie Lee Jones wanting to re-release an Orb track as a "remix" of one of her tracks.....when all they'd nicked was a few of her spoken words from an interview.) With a sampler, everything in the universe is fair game, it seems a bit lame to use it to pinch 4 bars of someone else's music and claim it as your own.....and even if not claimed....look at Al's example....that riff is now asociated with somebody who knew how to press "capture start", rather than those who wrote it.

Doctor? wrote:

No Holiday wrote: hey numnuts, you know the artist who is being sampled gets royalties right??? It's not like they're just taking the sample for nothing.

J

And if the creative ones do not WANT this?

So, you wouldn't mind getting assfucked by a herd of wild stallions as long as you got your coin?

My point exactly, if the original artist is ok with it, yes it's fine, but this was used without permission and kraftwerk lost the case, not good news for any musician. as for royalties, having read articles by the engineers that have worked for artists such as dre, 50 cent and kanye west, there are so many samples used that some get forgotten about and the original artist looses out, again not good for any musician.

El Jarvo wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote: kraftwerk loose sampling case

I'm sure dr dre and the likes will be over the moon.

Without Kraftwerk samples the world wouldn't have 'Planet Rock' though.

What about Coldplay? Total rip-off of Computer Love for one of their tracks. Most galling thing was that they did that in the 'introductions' round on Never Mind The Buzzcocks last year and everyone to a man said Coldplay when that melody was played! I'd have thought Phil Jupitus, at the very least, would've stood up and said Kraftwerk!!

There have been songs to suprise me like this though, for instance the Doves - Valley is a complete ripoff of the Beach Boys, musically...

...Personally I don't mind it if bands add a few sound bites or chords to enhance thier song, but find it disgusting when they based their entire song off it....

I don't mind people sampling things, as long as they've done it legally....but I don't like rap/hiphop/R&B music, though.

nothing wrong with sampling, the whole "original" argument is a dead end, everything comes from something. people have been lamely imitating each other forever.

they should just release whatever they want, and if any of the original artists actually recognize that they have been sampled, they can call up and threaten to sue, settle, then claim their royalties. everybody is happy then including the lawyers.

Would be nice if people sampled more imaginatively, rather than just using chunks of existing records (birdsong? crazy drunks ranting in the street?) But don't know that its fair to condemn the whole concept.

Cut and pasted from the Niagara discography, whether its entirely accurate or not...

Q: Where does the inspiration to Blue Monday come from? A: In his book, "Manchester, England: The Story of the Pop Cult City", Dave Haslam says:

"Blue Monday was really influenced by four songs, he [Bernard Sumner] once told me. 'The arrangement came from 'Dirty talk', by Klein & MBO, the beat came from a track off a Donna Summer LP, there was a sample from 'Radioactivity' by Kraftwerk, and the general influence on the style of the song was Sylvester's '(You make me feel) Mighty real'" 

Q: Where does the choir sound come from? A: Most likely the choir sound on Blue Monday is the same as the sound on Kraftwerk's track "Uranium" (off the album "Radioactivity", 1975). Whether or not New Order sampled Uranium, or used the same sound that was included with the Emu Emulator, is not fully known. Kraftwerk used a Mellotron to create the sound. However, Roger Lyons mentions in an article in Sound on Sound (April 2004) that "the vocal choir part on 'Blue Monday' was sampled, and it was probably one of the first instances of someone sampling something from someone else's record. New Order originally used an Emulator II to play their samples live..."

So whats the difference between sampling, an interpolation and just ripping something off?

0_o wrote: nothing wrong with sampling, the whole "original" argument is a dead end, everything comes from something. people have been lamely imitating each other forever.

they should just release whatever they want, and if any of the original artists actually recognize that they have been sampled, they can call up and threaten to sue, settle, then claim their royalties. everybody is happy then including the lawyers.

My only problem with it, is not the genre that does it, not the fact that something is used to trigger an idea or even base a track around, but the fact that the original artist does not agree with it being used, for whatever reason, if you created something you were proud of and someone used it in a way you didn't like without your permission, you would want to be able to stop them, this ruling denies that right.

I hope Kraftwerk got paid BIG for this.. Jay-Z feat Foxy Brown-Sunshine

listening to the track in question, sounds like the vocal melody was stolen from Amadeus by Falko too.

Not a bad track, but that's not my point.

Kraftwerk's show in Melbourne was cancelled due to Fritz Hilpert having suffered "heart failure" according to Ralf Hütter, who came out to address the audience..hope he fully recovers