Disappointing behaviour

by a few so called New Order fans at the QEH. The lads' performance was magnificent, it's a pity that the obvious importance of the event to the band was not mirrored by the obnoxious behaviour and heckling from a few pissed up morons during the earlier sets.

Also disappointing to see so many empty seats for the majority of the evening - another display of the lack of sensitivity as to what the night was all about.

As there are no real excuses for this behaviour I expect this post will just get flamed. Ho hum.

Quiller wrote: ...obnoxious behaviour and heckling from a few pissed up morons during the earlier sets.

Quiller wrote: ...Also disappointing to see so many empty seats for the majority of the evening

So, how exactly do these two statements work together ??

If you bothered listening to the comments from Bernard afterwards, he and the band loved it.

And JP would have loved it.

Live music is not all about sitting politely tapping your toe and clapping between songs. It's about passion.

Try it, you might actually enjoy yourself.

I'll tell you how they work together. How about this for a new concept for you - turn up for the gig AND show some respect for the other bands and the rest of the audience who want to listen to them.

Perhaps you would understand the point better if I had stood next to you for the twenty minutes NO were on and spent the time just shouting for the Furrys in your ear.

...and I agree live music is about passion, which doesn't necessarily equate to spending 5 hours in the pub getting pissed up!

Think it through.

Think this through - people owe bands nothing: all people do owe is a bit of respect for other punters. So, people being obnoxious through other bands's sets = bad form (though where was the reply?); people turning up "late" and then loving a band's performance = top hole.

I think you are missing the point here - this wasn't a New Order concert. DL says Peel "would have loved it" - why would he have loved other artists he liked being effectively barracked and playing to a half empty hall?

I'm sorry but I think these responses are a bit narrow minded and selfish

You need to get out more.

out of curiosity: what percentage of audience members were there to see new order, would you say?

i presume from the tone of this thread that the other bands didn't receive the same reception (by a mile) as the order.

Quiller wrote: Also disappointing to see so many empty seats for the majority of the evening - another display of the lack of sensitivity as to what the night was all about.

What's your point? It's not like if you're sitting still and enjoying your fave band playing live right there in front of you that would bring Peel back from the dead. If your way of showing some respect to the man is about pure listening, you should have stayed at home and play your records instead. I think you peeps from another message boards keep moaning just cause you get there and then realize that NO fanbase is the craziest bunch on earth and then it seems to bother you a lot. Cheer up a bit!

Quiller wrote: I think you are missing the point here - this wasn't a New Order concert. DL says Peel "would have loved it" - why would he have loved other artists he liked being effectively barracked and playing to a half empty hall?

I'm sorry but I think these responses are a bit narrow minded and selfish

What kind of dickhead are you? You know what, if i spend £25 on a gig, then i'll bloody well choose who i see and who i dont see. On wednesday, I saw SFA and New Order, do you know why? Because everyone else on the bill i dont like. Sort your fuckin head out son before any more crap comes out of it.

Get in there LIAM

This has already been discussed here

It seems NO fans on the night pissed off a lot of people.

And I just thought I'd piss you all off a little bit more by bringing it all up like this.

I was only mentioning that it had already been discussed elswhere - so why is it being repeated here?

Quiller, you've come to the wrong place if you want to have a pop at us lot for drunken heckling the other bands before the Order came on. It wasn't us lot. We were all still in the pub until 5 mins before they started!

Why were we still in the pub? Because we didn't want to see the other bands. I would have seen The Fall, but they came on so early it interrupted the social gathering (the coming together of New Order fans from all over the world is as important as the band's set, especially when they are only doing 20 minutes), and after 69 previous Fall gig I think I've done my bit of polite clapping and reverend worship.

What a WANK name British Sea Power lol

Love the way all the stirrers don't have visible profiles...

First off, I grew up listening to John Peel's shows on the radio, got the chance to meet him last year and shake him warmly by the hand - top bloke, and he'll never be forgotten. I must confess that when I heard he'd died, it was the only time I'd ever cried for someone who I didn't really know, apart from listening to for countless hours on the radio, and watching on the television (Life Of Grime, Glastonbury, Grumpy Old Men, Top Of The Pops, etc, etc). I'm pretty sure that a lot of people on this forum feel the same way as I do about the great man, especially since the very next night (although I couldn't make this, unfortunately), the New Order/Joy Division tribute band (Digital) played a gig in his memory (as did countless other gigs round the country), the proceeds of which went to Shelter, a charity of whom John supported throughout his life, helping homeless people put roofs over their head.

Different people have different ways of paying tribute to the great man. As has been previously stated, we gathered in a pub close to the venue and met up with lots of people from around the country/world who we hadn't seen for a while. It was a choice between going to see the other bands (most of which I have already had the pleasure of seeing), or catching up with people who we hadn't seen for a long time, getting ready to see New Order. After all, the ticket price was still going to Shelter, whether we were there or not!!

John was all about music and (has been stated before) the passion it stirred inside you. Sure, you could have stayed in your seats and watched from afar, but that wasn't really what any of the bands who performed on Wednesday were all about. They were about making people move, after all both The Fall and Joy Division are post-punk bands, Misty In Roots (a reggae band that you cannot fail to dance to), Jawbone (a one mand blues band - again to get up and dance to), Super Furry Animals (who the band actually asked to at least stand up for the final song)! I agree that the venue wasn't really the best place to get up and dance, but as Sheila, John's wife said, that there had been some "incredible gigs involving John over the years" at the Queen Elizabeth Hall - a fitting tribute.

Disrespectful? I think not. John Peel - a legend - RIP.

I think this is a very well made response to my original post, and directly addresses the points I made, although it doesn't really change my opinion about the effect on the atmosphere at the QEH.

I'm sure that there were plenty of New Order fans in attendance who weren't out of order, and I'm sorry if people feel that they're being unfairly criticised, this is just my opinion. As are the responses from others for me to "go and get a life"

Nothing to do with any other band either. A lot of British Sea Power fans love NO, irrespective of what any of you think of BSP.

Let's agree to disagree.

As a conclusion, I would say that the best way to remember John is to go out and seek out new music, go to gigs of bands you've never heard of before, and generally support new music as a whole, whatever the style.

Now, that would be a legacy he would have been proud of! :)

Quiller you sound like one of those types who tells people to sit down and stop singing at football matches so they can watch in silence.

Do you mean walk away in silence?

Do you mean walk away in silence?

Quiller wrote: I think this is a very well made response to my original post, and directly addresses the points I made, although it doesn't really change my opinion about the effect on the atmosphere at the QEH.

I'm sure that there were plenty of New Order fans in attendance who weren't out of order, and I'm sorry if people feel that they're being unfairly criticised, this is just my opinion. As are the responses from others for me to "go and get a life"

Nothing to do with any other band either. A lot of British Sea Power fans love NO, irrespective of what any of you think of BSP.

Let's agree to disagree.

You've got to look on it with a sense of humour and perspective...

No-one could shout 'N-O' during Venetian Snares because of that guy's power and craziness; that was admirable. Anyone could shout 'N-O' during Super Furry Testicles because it was snoozeville compared to what was next...

Peely was certainly anti-establishment, as, I would suggest, were the actions of the more impassioned NO fans amongst us. Therefore Peely would admire us!

I think NO fans need to be given a bit more respect... No-one stood up for any of the other artists unless they were TOLD to.

NO-ONE sat down THROUGHOUT the NO gig... tells you something doesn't it?

Uncle Liam wrote:

Quiller wrote: I think you are missing the point here - this wasn't a New Order concert. DL says Peel "would have loved it" - why would he have loved other artists he liked being effectively barracked and playing to a half empty hall?

I'm sorry but I think these responses are a bit narrow minded and selfish

What kind of dickhead are you? You know what, if i spend £25 on a gig, then i'll bloody well choose who i see and who i dont see. On wednesday, I saw SFA and New Order, do you know why? Because everyone else on the bill i dont like. Sort your fuckin head out son before any more crap comes out of it.

'and so say all of us' I paid a hell of a lot more than that - to see New Order; I did try and be polite and give the others a chance, but ultimately, I was not going to sit there bored out of my head, when the bar was open, now was I?

Quiller, you sure started something here - a lively debate or what?!

I wasn't at the QEH and obviously can't comment on anyone's behaviour. But as a newby (or is it newbie?) I read the NOOL principles/guidelines as soon as I joined this community. Having only just read the standard on "respecting" other members and their viewpoints I was a little disappointed that this discussion got so heated.

Opinions are fine, passion is fine, agreeing to disagree is good - deciding when to agree to do so can be difficult sometimes.

I’m new here, not judging anybody, hope you don’t mind me making these comments. H

Calm down ,calm down.We don`t want another Altamont!

Oh come now. Everyone knows the "NOOL Community Standards" don't amount to jack. And that's precisely what makes this forum such a great place compared to other forums (or is that fora?). People can say whatever they like and call each other anything they want and very rarely is there any censoring of statements.

So with that in mind: Quiller, with that kind of attitude toward live music, you'd make a great septic. Or Cure fan. Take your pick.

I defend everybody's right to think and say that I'm a dickhead. I think my attitude last night was a bit over-aggressive and I apologise. I'm sorry.

I'm not going to rant on and on about this, because I think everyone who's read this thread can form their own views. However I would ask you to perhaps consider two points:

1. I think of myself as quite a big New Order fan, having seen them about thirty times since my first gig at the Polytechnic of Central London in 1985 (I realise this is nothing compared to the nmber of times that some of you have seen them). I've lurked on this site for literally years, and have never felt the need to criticise or rant at New Order fans before, so have I just lost my marbles? Other people who were at the QEH on wednesday night independently came to the same conclusions that I did. Are we all sad fuckwits who suddenly felt a collective urge to annoy and provoke members of Neworderonline, an urge which developed on wednesday afternoon? Despite what some people may think I don't feel any pleasure in being negative or hostile. So what is going on?

2. Of course if you buy a ticket you have the absolute right to attend all, or none, or some of the event, without having to justify yourself to anyone. People have talked about wanting to see their friends being more important to them than being in the hall before 9.45pm. Fair enough. I would just ask then, would they have been equally comfortable with the QEH being half empty from 7pm until the end at 11pm if the running order had been reversed and NO had been on first?

Just a thought.

What happens if people didn't arrive at the South Bank until between 8:30pm and 9:00pm, due to the fact that they don't live anywhere near London (some live abroad) or had to work late (i.e. couldn't get the afternoon off)?

Just a thought...

Can’t remember which song this line is from but Ian Curtis wrote it – “respect is only normal, the way to live your lives”

Impressive as it is that His Holiness in WA knows that the plural of forum is fora (so my five years studying Latin WAS worthwhile) bollocks to him for his crap view of freedom of expression!! H

Quiller wrote:

2. Of course if you buy a ticket you have the absolute right to attend all, or none, or some of the event, without having to justify yourself to anyone. People have talked about wanting to see their friends being more important to them than being in the hall before 9.45pm. Fair enough. I would just ask then, would they have been equally comfortable with the QEH being half empty from 7pm until the end at 11pm if the running order had been reversed and NO had been on first?

Just a thought.

There was a concern running until earlier that day that New Order might be on earlier, indeed there are precedents in this sort of "several band, short set" events of them opening proceedings. I would have been quite comfortable personally with them being on first, I would then have gone back to the pub. As previously said, the only other band I was interested in seeing was The Fall, and I've seen them enough times to know what I'm getting, i.e slovenly performance and new songs. We knew that New Order were planning something special for this one, even if we also knew that there was a good chance it would be a slovenly performance and old songs.

Personally, I wasn't there for John Peel. I was there for New Order and to see my mates. I spent twenty-five years listening to John Peel (or trying to sort the wheat from the chaff anyway), and played a gig the following night as part of John Peel day. Peel made a contribution to my life second only behind my family, as previously documented. That said, I'm not shallow enough to sit there in hushed reverence. Noise. It wouldn't have mattered one iota to me if the QEH was empty between 7 and 11. Attendance wasn't the key criterion. Raising money for Shelter wasn't the key. Just doing it was the key. Just doing something, anything, being positive and active was the key. Just my opinion.

What's disappointing is that virtually no 'Vikings' can concede that maybe the critics of the audience behaviour have a point. Perhaps what is acceptable at an outdoor festival is overstepping the mark at an indoor gig? I don't suggest that everyone stands in silent reverence (but also - unlike Tim, I don't think it's shallow to do so), I just think the attitude of "I've paid my money, I'm going to do what the fuck I want" is ignorant and rude. Obviously there's no compulsion to watch bands you don't want to watch, and there's nothing wrong with cheering for *your* band in between sets, but spoiling people's enjoyment of *their band* or New Order, of whom NOOLers don't have a monopoly, is pretty dumb and boorish. IF that's what happened. I was there for New Order only, but let's just suppose, based on what others have said, that it might.

Having read the thread on the BSP website I get the feeling that underlying a lot of the angst is the old Joy Divison v New Order thing. You know what I'm refering to, the moody cnuts in anoraks who can't see beyond May 1980 and who regard NO playing JD songs as some kind of sacrielege.

One post even suggests that those of us down the front (myself included, just right of Hooky) were somehow bemused/dissapointed by the Joy Divison set and that we weren't even that familiar with the material. I laughed out loud at that one. Nobody I spoke to could believe their luck that we got Shadowplay and Warsaw. We'll take that over Jetsream and Blue Monday any day of the week.

And all this from the forum of a band who sound like Prefab fucking Sprout!!!!!!

Just read the Observer review posted on another thread - it appears the drunken louts who follow New Order ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD simply cannot appreciate the beauty of Joy Division's music, and are more interested in knocking out Barney's teeth. Philistines, the lot of them.

Don't you just hate middle-class wankers with poetry in their souls? Cunts.

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Just read the Observer review posted on another thread - it appears the drunken louts who follow New Order ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD simply cannot appreciate the beauty of Joy Division's music, and are more interested in knocking out Barney's teeth. Philistines, the lot of them.

Don't you just hate middle-class wankers with poetry in their souls? Cunts.

Step away from the Sunday!

What are you up to this afternoon? Fancy a pint?

BIGINOIL wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Just read the Observer review posted on another thread - it appears the drunken louts who follow New Order ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD simply cannot appreciate the beauty of Joy Division's music, and are more interested in knocking out Barney's teeth. Philistines, the lot of them.

Don't you just hate middle-class wankers with poetry in their souls? Cunts.

Step away from the Sunday!

What are you up to this afternoon? Fancy a pint?

Mate, the mood I'm in I'd be up for 15 pints: unfortunately (and despite my best efforts to update my profile) I'm now back in Stoke. I will be back up in that shithole Aberdeen at some point because there's at least one very pretty student who I miss in a totally unprofessional way. Otherwise, I'll see YOU at the next New Order gig. Beer will be on me.

Clayhead, let me know if you ever do get some free time up here or need somewhere to crash when you're in town - it's a shame we never managed to meet up.

And I'll hold you to those beers!

Clayhead, let me know if you ever do get some free time up here or need somewhere to crash when you're in town - it's a shame we never managed to meet up.

And I'll hold you to those beers!

DC wrote: What's disappointing is that virtually no 'Vikings' can concede that maybe the critics of the audience behaviour have a point. Perhaps what is acceptable at an outdoor festival is overstepping the mark at an indoor gig? I don't suggest that everyone stands in silent reverence (but also - unlike Tim, I don't think it's shallow to do so), I just think the attitude of "I've paid my money, I'm going to do what the fuck I want" is ignorant and rude. Obviously there's no compulsion to watch bands you don't want to watch, and there's nothing wrong with cheering for *your* band in between sets, but spoiling people's enjoyment of *their band* or New Order, of whom NOOLers don't have a monopoly, is pretty dumb and boorish. IF that's what happened. I was there for New Order only, but let's just suppose, based on what others have said, that it might.

Slightly misinterpreted what I was getting at, DC. I was attempting to be ironic at the apparent BSP insistence that everyone sit there in awe, rather than enjoying it. I can't comment on the allegations of people shouting out for NO when other bands were on - I was in the pub with the rest of the people from here!

I think I heard the sound of a car starting...... Is that Quiller running away?...........

:bag:

oldmonkey wrote:

DC wrote: What's disappointing is that virtually no 'Vikings' can concede that maybe the critics of the audience behaviour have a point. Perhaps what is acceptable at an outdoor festival is overstepping the mark at an indoor gig? I don't suggest that everyone stands in silent reverence (but also - unlike Tim, I don't think it's shallow to do so), I just think the attitude of "I've paid my money, I'm going to do what the fuck I want" is ignorant and rude. Obviously there's no compulsion to watch bands you don't want to watch, and there's nothing wrong with cheering for *your* band in between sets, but spoiling people's enjoyment of *their band* or New Order, of whom NOOLers don't have a monopoly, is pretty dumb and boorish. IF that's what happened. I was there for New Order only, but let's just suppose, based on what others have said, that it might.

Slightly misinterpreted what I was getting at, DC. I was attempting to be ironic at the apparent BSP insistence that everyone sit there in awe, rather than enjoying it. I can't comment on the allegations of people shouting out for NO when other bands were on - I was in the pub with the rest of the people from here!

OK, sorry - my mistake. I didn't read any of the BSP comments first hand.

craig's digitalwaters wrote:

Quiller wrote: I think this is a very well made response to my original post, and directly addresses the points I made, although it doesn't really change my opinion about the effect on the atmosphere at the QEH.

I'm sure that there were plenty of New Order fans in attendance who weren't out of order, and I'm sorry if people feel that they're being unfairly criticised, this is just my opinion. As are the responses from others for me to "go and get a life"

Nothing to do with any other band either. A lot of British Sea Power fans love NO, irrespective of what any of you think of BSP.

Let's agree to disagree.

You've got to look on it with a sense of humour and perspective...

No-one could shout 'N-O' during Venetian Snares because of that guy's power and craziness; that was admirable. Anyone could shout 'N-O' during Super Furry Testicles because it was snoozeville compared to what was next...

Peely was certainly anti-establishment, as, I would suggest, were the actions of the more impassioned NO fans amongst us. Therefore Peely would admire us!

I think NO fans need to be given a bit more respect... No-one stood up for any of the other artists unless they were TOLD to.

NO-ONE sat down THROUGHOUT the NO gig... tells you something doesn't it?

respect to Peely, and the bands he gave a damn about. END OF!!!