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Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > Originally posted by Joshua B> Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens or Berlin ?
No. Care to share?
They were New Order in the past 
No, Berlin was the mid-Eighties soft-rock band memorable for their hit "Take My Breath Away", from the Top Gun soundtrack. You're thinking Warsaw, Brasil 88 
Now excuse me while I go get pummeled by some jocks walking home from the library 
If it WAS Johnny Marr, I'd HATE it and I'd sell my whole New Order collection on Ebay...
and you all know who'd probably bid highest... 
Perhaps Alan Hempsall from Crispy Ambulance is still available. Still, no-one would want to see his a*** either...
New Order without keyboards is like cereal without milk...sure you can snack on it, but it's not a complete meal. Just what i don't want to hear is that they have some second rate guitarist writing with them so they can produce a second rate ROCK ALBUM. NO THANK YOU! I fear that the boys are slowly moving towards a mainstream sound. Bernard's comments about programming synthesizers being too difficult still confuses and upsets me. If anything, synths are now easier to program. It's all down to him being an old, lazy bastard. the next album should be called RELICS. or maybe JERRY ATRICK. i personally don't want to see Phil Cunningham or any other dick with a guitar on stage or on record with the Order. Guitars are the devils work...plug in the synths and make some real music and please, let the starstruck Cuntingham focus on his own pathetic rock band.
Ooh - harsh words indeed. Does that mean that New Order without guitars would be like milk without the cereal?
It's not about one or the other, it's about the blend of the two. New Order from 1982-1993 was amazing because of that blend, and Get Ready was far too much "rocky", the only "classic" sounding tracks were "Vicious Streak" and "Here To Stay". Taking out the synth (and drum machine most likely), New Order are back to where they were in 1980. Lost. But they could recover. Couldn't they?
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > Originally posted by Joshua B> Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens or Berlin ?
No. Care to share?
They were New Order in the past
No, Berlin was the mid-Eighties soft-rock band memorable for their hit "Take My Breath Away", from the Top Gun soundtrack. You're thinking Warsaw, Brasil 88
Now excuse me while I go get pummeled by some jocks walking home from the library
Trevor
Hooky said it and I trust in him 
New Order going towards more guitar-based stuff would be progression in my opinion. Too many dickheads fuck about with synths, samples, drum machines etc. nowadays.
About time that a band like New Order showed them what playing original music should sound like.
The fact that Joy Division made great music with/without synths goes to show that the original three members 'had it' then and it would be great to hear more 'proper' music like the stuff they produced on 'Get Ready' or classics like 'Sunrise', 'AOC', 'Ceremony', etc that didn't have to rely on computer chips.
Steve Morris was and still is one of the most impressive 'live' drummers I've seen and that opinion is shared by at least three professional drummers that I've played with (musically, not physically - you dirty minded sods - you know who you are...)
And BLT - EVERYONE knows that the DEvil has the BEST tunes...
I love New Order but I don't think certain members' technical skills are going to show any other band what real music should sound like. I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band. Have you seen Bernard live (I haven't...only on video) as he makes a few false passes by his guitar strings in time with the music while getting ready to actually hit the strings? I guess he's making sure his timing is right before strumming a note. I think it's cute.
good points chris but Sunrise and AOC are special because of their use of synths. Ceremony would not be half the song on record without the production of Hannet. basically, without electronics, the examples you used would just be typical rock numbers.
i agree with the poster who said it's the blend of the two that define newOrder's sound and make them so special. without a strong synth element, they just aren't as exciting. i am not calling for drum machines either, everyone knows SMorris is the best drum machine money can buy.
Originally posted by Joshua B I love I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band. Have you seen Bernard live (I haven't...
I think you need to qualify that as the American general public. I've never once thought of New Order as a [ahem] synth...pop band, heaven forbid. Some of their finer moments - Sunrise, DNE, Age of Consent, Ceremony, etc - are anything but.
Originally posted by Spotnick DO NOT read this one while drinking...
I'd love to see Barney's bum hanging out. :D
Heck yeah! Or even seeing him do this! :moon:
Its Porl from Cure fame.
I read an interview of Bernard regarding the recording of Twisted Tenderness. He said it was great because it did not take 3 years of studio work to record that album. He also said he enjoyed going over to someone's home and practicing the parts before recording. Hence, less keys, more guitar easier job making the album.
Do not count Gillian out. She is just missing an album and possible tour. Do not count keys out, I cannot fathom a NO album without them. I bet Steve is pestering Gillian for programing help. Besides, its the Hooky that makes the NO sound.
Originally posted by Gillian's Cabana Boy Get Ready was far too much "rocky", the only "classic" sounding tracks were "Vicious Streak" and "Here To Stay".
Wow - you must have a pretty damn exclusive version of GR if "Here To Stay" is included on it! ;)
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid good points chris but Sunrise and AOC are special because of their use of synths. Ceremony would not be half the song on record without the production of Hannet. basically, without electronics, the examples you used would just be typical rock numbers.i agree with the poster who said it's the blend of the two that define newOrder's sound and make them so special. without a strong synth element, they just aren't as exciting. i am not calling for drum machines either, everyone knows SMorris is the best drum machine money can buy.
Are you listening to the same band called 'New Order' that I am?
There's very little that synths add to either song - and when I've seen both songs played live (several times) the synths have been barely audible, with Steve's drums hammering out on a 'proper' kit - definitely two of the highlights of their set.
In 'Sunrise' the synth merely pads out the bass sound and in AOC the same happens until the 'theme' bit which could be played just as effectively on the guitar, giving it a more 'raw' sound... besides, even without Gillian, the band will still use synths, drum machines and sequencers live, so it's rather a moot point.
Both songs would still sound great without keyboards. Just like Joy Division did on numerous tracks. Not saying you're wrong about the general use of synths exactly, but on these two tracks I really don't think it matters.
Mind you, I'm one of the few who think that 'Technique' was one of New Order's weaker albums...
Wait, I just got a horrible premonition...does anyone know what Michael Bolton's been up to lately? 
Please God, let me be 
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Joshua B> I love I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band. Have you seen Bernard live (I haven't...I think you need to qualify that as the American general public. I've never once thought of New Order as a [ahem] synth...pop band, heaven forbid. Some of their finer moments - Sunrise, DNE, Age of Consent, Ceremony, etc - are anything but.
I think you had to be fairly "in the know" to recognize that list of songs. What were their biggest chart hits? Blue Monday...Bizzare Love Triangle...World in Motion...all dance chart hits. But dance music is never taken seriously by critics so it's the rock songs that become "classics."
I'd say you'd just have to be a New Order fan...
Oh, and you missed 'True Faith' - #2 in the UK.
But among fans, it tends to be the more guitar based songs that are considered to be among the 'greats'.
And the cheers that used to erupt when they played non-synth-based JD stuff like Transmission, LWTUA live really outweighed the cheers when BLT, TF, etc were announced...
So you strengthened my point. The general public doesn't know the "cool" songs, they only know what's in front of them--the hits. So what the general public has heard of New Order is synth pop.
Originally posted by twist Its Porl from Cure fame.
Don't be so cruel. You're making me salivate - with false hope.
This is not news and I don't consider Manchester Online to be an "official" source of New Order info.
it's not about making dance tracks but using the synth as layers and then as in Age Of Consent, to fill out the glorious crescendo. i don't necessarily want another Blue Monday but something that retains the trademark elements: guitar, bass (how low can you go), the human drum machine, and synths. i hope the electronic elements remain at least as prominent as in Get Ready, preferably a nice split like Brotherhood and Technique.
Originally posted by Joshua B I love New Order but I don't think certain members' technical skills are going to show any other band what real music should sound like. I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band.
You septics might. We don't.
the lady is no longer member of the "order". and that means something wrong for some people and a relief for others.
in my opinion i got used to her lost. having Phil C made New Order being able to develop live al the roughness that they made on Get Ready. the guy play very well and many instruments, which besides eases the job of the other 3. i think he deserves the possibility of working on the studio. he earned it.
now, we´re talking about the lost of keyboards like if that was true. besides the more guitarrish sound of the last period they never leaved the keyboards. just listening to Here To Stay, Vicious Streak and Someone Like You we realize that compositions made basically electronically are still part of the repertory.
and even if that was true i don´t think it´s a backward movement. actually looking for new alternatives to the "new order sound" it´s a healthy thing to do in order to not becoming their own tribute band, repeating the formula again and again. the combination of electronics with the guitar/bass/drums base is still there even if now the search is more oriented on the guitar sounds than on the keyboards sounds.
all of this it´s just the confirmation of what in fact was happening. there will be detractors and enthusiasts but the truth is that this is the way things are and we can´t change it. then we´ll see what they do with all these. i think New Order hasn´t got blank checks simply because of the fact of making such great things as they did becomes a constant exigency and certainly not an approval.
at least that´s the way i see it.
i remember hearing that Here To Stay started out as an acoustic track and many of the Electronic tracks started out much differently to how they finished so who knows what is going to happen?? i bet even they don't?
i'm just going to wait and see.
as for somebody else writing with them, i think its a good thing that might add a different dimension. we don't know who's producing yet (unless i've missed something) so that will be another significant factor too.
so technically, they should change their name since they aren't really NewOrder any more. if they had to change when ian left them hanging, surely losing gillian should result in another name change by their standards. of course, i don't really think they should or that they will but it isn't really NewOrder without Gillian is it? (cue Jarvis disputing Gillian's contribution)
did they choose the name NewOrder without Gillian in the band or as suggested in the deleted scenes on 24HPP, with Gillian?
There seems to be a tug-of-war going on between the arguements that keyboards are an essential part of New Order and would be missing from a Gillian-less album, and those who welcome the absence of so much "electronica" and more guitar-based sound. Personally, I think it's good to keep in mind that, unless they've all suffered traumatic blows to the head with a cinder block, the NO guys still have the profiecency with their instruments (no, not those instruments) to pull off a more rock-oriented sound, ala their early days as JD and after.
I don't think they'd abandon the keyboards altogether, but it might actually breathe new life into the band if they tried for a more guitar-heavy sound. I don't think Gilly's "banned for life" from being able to return to the fold, but if it would be easier on the Morrises to have at least one parent there with the kids then she's gotta be out. I would hope they'll try and include her sooner rather than later, but it all depends on how much longer they plan to continue onwards.
