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I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?
I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:
Sunrise Sooner Than You Think Subculture Age Of Consent As It Is When It Was Hurt 586 Chosen Time Perfect Kiss Confusion
Checked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Originally posted by Solitude I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:SunriseSooner Than You ThinkSubcultureAge Of ConsentAs It Is When It WasHurt586Chosen TimePerfect KissConfusionChecked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Try these mates from New Zealand :
mattjones@arse.co.nz matthew jones
m.smyth@xtra.co.nz matthew (not the same person)
Originally posted by Solitude I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:SunriseSooner Than You ThinkSubcultureAge Of ConsentAs It Is When It WasHurt586Chosen TimePerfect KissConfusionChecked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Obviously 1985.. must be close to the Pumped Full of Drugs gig..
I'll know what it is from one listen 
- have my suspicions aleady, but need to check some banter/bum notes.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle I'll know what it is from one listen
ahhhh...the joys of a NO gig.
Originally posted by Tracey Spivey > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> I'll know what it is from one listen
ahhhh...the joys of a NO gig.
Ditto, but who else would you pay good money to for an insult and dodgy bum notes at a live performance?
This gig is probably Oz/Nz OR UK as you can just about make out the shouted requests from fans (it is sounboard so they sound distant) Talking of bum notes, nothing can beat Hooky's colossal cock-up during Leave Me Alone at Cornwall 84?
Tim/Reg, check your inbox
Originally posted by Solitude > Originally posted by Tracey Spivey> > > > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> > I'll know what it is from one listen
ahhhh...the joys of a NO gig.
Ditto, but who else would you pay good money to for an insult and dodgy bum notes at a live performance?
This gig is probably Oz/Nz OR UK as you can just about make out the shouted requests from fans (it is sounboard so they sound distant) Talking of bum notes, nothing can beat Hooky's colossal cock-up during Leave Me Alone at Cornwall 84?
Tim/Reg, check your inbox
Apart from his cock-up on Leave Me Alone at Gloucester three nights before ? Nowt in inbox !
My guess is Canton Club, Hong Kong April 1985?. Only because i have not seen a setlist from that gig.
Sheesh...i thought we had started a WEIGHTWATCHERS and was going to join up!:DBet you hope it is HONG KONG though.....
Originally posted by Solitude My guess is Canton Club, Hong Kong April 1985?. Only because i have not seen a setlist from that gig.
I guess there will be several distinguishing features that will tell me which continent, and whether the CD is in fact a compilation of a few other gigs. The set-list is worryingly similar (in choice of songs rather than order) to quite a few in that era. Bum notes, changed lyrics and banter are the key !
It's Osaka revisited ;) Are there no members here from the Far East or just anyone who might have a massive collection of memorabilia that might just have press kit with the dates of that tour?
Originally posted by robin It's Osaka revisited ;) Are there no members here from the Far East or just anyone who might have a massive collection of memorabilia that might just have press kit with the dates of that tour?
You read my mind......set list is rather similar, it could well be that this gig and your Osaka one are the same, with all 12 tracks now revealed ! Always suspected there was something strange about the order of songs on the Osaka recording, though it was clearly a bona-fide New Order in Japan/HK 1985 recording. We'll see shortly, hopefully ! It would be great if this was either the HK gig or an unknown Aus/NZ one - the 85 tour was a bit threadbare !!
Had a listen to the entire CD, it most definetely is one gig and not a compilation as the it has a constant peculiar mix to the drums. Barney introduces 'Sooner Than You Think' as 'Bullet in the Head'. After 'Sooner Than You Think' ends, Barney asks Eddie to turn down the drums.
BTW, when was 'As It Was' debut?
'Chosen Time' intro is completely ruined due to lack of practice and when it finishes, Barney tells the audience that they will get the next one right. Then 'temptation' is cut short presumably because the tape ends. English speaking voices can be heard shouting for Transmission but overall, it has a feeling of a OZ/Far East gig. Copy to Tim to evaluate
Originally posted by Solitude Had a listen to the entire CD, it most definetely is one gig and not a compilation as the it has a constant peculiar mix to the drums.Barney introduces 'Sooner Than You Think' as 'Bullet in the Head'. After 'Sooner Than You Think' ends, Barney asks Eddie to turn down the drums.BTW, when was 'As It Was' debut?'Chosen Time' intro is completely ruined due to lack of practice and when it finishes, Barney tells the audience that they will get the next one right.Then 'temptation' is cut short presumably because the tape ends.English speaking voices can be heard shouting for Transmission but overall, it has a feeling of a OZ/Far East gig.Copy to Tim to evaluate
I'll tell you now that it's a new one that we don't have !! Does the bass have that weird sound that it did on the Oz/Japan shows ? If not, you may have found Cambridge :)
As It Is debuted at Salford 17/4/85, early versions are very recognisable, and I'd wager I can tie this gig down to a fortnight.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle > Originally posted by Solitude> Had a listen to the entire CD, it most definetely is one gig and not a compilation as the it has a constant peculiar mix to the drums.> Barney introduces 'Sooner Than You Think' as 'Bullet in the Head'. > After 'Sooner Than You Think' ends, Barney asks Eddie to turn down the drums.> > BTW, when was 'As It Was' debut?> > 'Chosen Time' intro is completely ruined due to lack of practice and when it finishes, Barney tells the audience that they will get the next one right.> Then 'temptation' is cut short presumably because the tape ends.> English speaking voices can be heard shouting for Transmission but overall, it has a feeling of a OZ/Far East gig.> Copy to Tim to evaluate
I'll tell you now that it's a new one that we don't have !! Does the bass have that weird sound that it did on the Oz/Japan shows ? If not, you may have found Cambridge :)
As It Is debuted at Salford 17/4/85, early versions are very recognisable, and I'd wager I can tie this gig down to a fortnight. Tim, As It Is' does appear to be an early version and the bass drum throughout is very pronounced in the mix but a little less deep than is usual. Could this be Cambridge?, nah it's The Beach Club , Manchester!!!
Originally posted by Old Blue I was just wondering where the obligatory list of Brazillians demanding a copy was
I asked Peter a copy before this thread exists 
Originally posted by Spotnick Once you know, let me know so we can complete the concert list here!
You haven't put the last lot of updates I sent you online yet !! 
;)
Originally posted by Old Blue I was just wondering where the obligatory list of Brazillians demanding a copy was
very very funny!!! :bag:
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle > Originally posted by robin> It's Osaka revisited ;) Are there no members here from the Far East or just anyone who might have a massive collection of memorabilia that might just have press kit with the dates of that tour?
You read my mind......set list is rather similar, it could well be that this gig and your Osaka one are the same, with all 12 tracks now revealed ! Always suspected there was something strange about the order of songs on the Osaka recording, though it was clearly a bona-fide New Order in Japan/HK 1985 recording. We'll see shortly, hopefully ! It would be great if this was either the HK gig or an unknown Aus/NZ one - the 85 tour was a bit threadbare !!
I remember you saying this at the time. What strikes you as so strange? To me the only unique aspect is that they ended the main set w/ "as it is when it was" which at the time was a really new song so they were probably throwing it all over the setlist during '85. And they had not yet started end ing shows with the obligatory synth opus (blue monday, perfect kiss, temptation). There are plenty of shows where they end either the main or the encore with sunrise or ceremony, so i don't think "as it is " is too far off those.
Originally posted by Solitude My guess is Canton Club, Hong Kong April 1985?. Only because i have not seen a setlist from that gig.
The lad I've corresponded with about the Hong Kong gig says they played Blue Monday (admittedly, might be missing from a recording?) and that they also came on with Barney asking if anyone was in from Manchester, and that they continued to be condescending to the audience throughout, their comments bordering on 'racist' (his words, not mine).
Originally posted by robin > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> > > > Originally posted by robin> > It's Osaka revisited ;) Are there no members here from the Far East or just anyone who might have a massive collection of memorabilia that might just have press kit with the dates of that tour?>
You read my mind......set list is rather similar, it could well be that this gig and your Osaka one are the same, with all 12 tracks now revealed ! Always suspected there was something strange about the order of songs on the Osaka recording, though it was clearly a bona-fide New Order in Japan/HK 1985 recording. We'll see shortly, hopefully ! It would be great if this was either the HK gig or an unknown Aus/NZ one - the 85 tour was a bit threadbare !!
I remember you saying this at the time. What strikes you as so strange? To me the only unique aspect is that they ended the main set w/ "as it is when it was" which at the time was a really new song so they were probably throwing it all over the setlist during '85. And they had not yet started end ing shows with the obligatory synth opus (blue monday, perfect kiss, temptation). There are plenty of shows where they end either the main or the encore with sunrise or ceremony, so i don't think "as it is " is too far off those.
It wasn't the ending with As It Is that surprised me, they did that on some other shows as well. It was the placement of Perfect Kiss as the first track, when you can quite clearly hear someone shout "encore". I suspect that it was the encore - we know they came back for one as the CD stops with them back on stage. I think they opened with Confusion (or Hurt), and everything else is nudged forward one in the set. The quiet bit at the start of Hurt makes me suspicious as well, as they'd already played sequencer tracks in the gig so would have had the volumes right for the Emulator output ! It actually sounds like a total loss of volume, you'd expect an audience reaction to something like that happening during a show.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle > Originally posted by robin> > > > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> > > > > > > Originally posted by robin> > > It's Osaka revisited ;) Are there no members here from the Far East or just anyone who might have a massive collection of memorabilia that might just have press kit with the dates of that tour?> > >
You read my mind......set list is rather similar, it could well be that this gig and your Osaka one are the same, with all 12 tracks now revealed ! Always suspected there was something strange about the order of songs on the Osaka recording, though it was clearly a bona-fide New Order in Japan/HK 1985 recording. We'll see shortly, hopefully ! It would be great if this was either the HK gig or an unknown Aus/NZ one - the 85 tour was a bit threadbare !!
I remember you saying this at the time. What strikes you as so strange? To me the only unique aspect is that they ended the main set w/ "as it is when it was" which at the time was a really new song so they were probably throwing it all over the setlist during '85. And they had not yet started end ing shows with the obligatory synth opus (blue monday, perfect kiss, temptation). There are plenty of shows where they end either the main or the encore with sunrise or ceremony, so i don't think "as it is " is too far off those.
It wasn't the ending with As It Is that surprised me, they did that on some other shows as well. It was the placement of Perfect Kiss as the first track, when you can quite clearly hear someone shout "encore". I suspect that it was the encore - we know they came back for one as the CD stops with them back on stage. I think they opened with Confusion (or Hurt), and everything else is nudged forward one in the set. The quiet bit at the start of Hurt makes me suspicious as well, as they'd already played sequencer tracks in the gig so would have had the volumes right for the Emulator output ! It actually sounds like a total loss of volume, you'd expect an audience reaction to something like that happening during a show.
I hear the voice you're speaking of, but I don't hear him as aying "encore" but rather something in japanese that I can't quite make out (it'd probably be easier if I spoke a lick of Japanese:)). That said, there's no break between perfect kiss and confusion, which barney introduces as "the next song we're gonna play is called confusion" indicating that there had been a previous song, thereby eliminating that as the opener. The only other breaks are:
i'm thereby inclined to think this was the actual running order with the last song (temptation) lopped off.
Also, would you perhaps drop me a line. I've lost your e-mail and I wanted to ask you a couple of questions off the board. Don't worry, not the "What are you wearing right now?" type of question, but it's keeping with the live recording theme.
Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......
I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
Great Detective work REG!
Why has this one never surfaced before IF it was on a traders list years ago!Hoax back then or did he/she just keep it for themselves.In your collecting days what was the main reason why NO recording was done at certain shows.Was it strict security or was it that the BRIT's were keener to record every concert.I am intrigued as to why certain tape recordings have never seen the light of day.Also REG...which year did you collect the most recordings and have you any that no one else has?
Cheers ROCKET MICK
I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has:
Agora, Akron, USA (5 Aug 85)
I'll see if I can do some more scouring and get a more definitive reference.
(longtime lurker, but first post)
Originally posted by the happy one > I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has:
Agora, Akron, USA (5 Aug 85)
I'll see if I can do some more scouring and get a more definitive reference.
(longtime lurker, but first post)
Welcome David Sultan 
Welcome David Sultan
Haha, no. Actually, this is just the@new-order.net, whom you've seen post to Ceremony a few times. If I was Mr. Sultan, I'd just buy the server. :)
Well, looks like I solved a long-standing mystery (at least for me)...what the venue name for the 17 AUG 85 gig in Utah was.
http://www.internationalwebservice.com/reviews/neworder/New%20Order.htm
"Utah State Fairgrounds"
Originally posted by the happy one Well, looks like I solved a long-standing mystery (at least for me)...what the venue name for the 17 AUG 85 gig in Utah was.http://www.internationalwebservice.com/reviews/neworder/New%20Order.htm"Utah State Fairgrounds"
Do you have a recording of this ? 
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 19852) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
Super work Tim! What's the key point or fact leading to your conclusion that it's a US gig? Is it that the lyrics are the same as Chicago?
Do you have a recording of this ?
I don't think anybody does, well, aside from Hooky. The absence of a setlist would tend to confirm that.
My avatar's broke, for some reason...
Originally posted by Marko > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......> > 1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 1985> 2) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.> 3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.> 4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?> 5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.> > I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
Super work Tim! What's the key point or fact leading to your conclusion that it's a US gig? Is it that the lyrics are the same as Chicago?
More a case of the stage of development of As It Is. The lyrics on this recording have a particular line that was used at Chicago as well, but had disappeared the next time they played it, and hadn't appeared before. As It Is was always a song where the words stayed pretty much the same but the music evolved, unlike most NO songs. 100% definite its not Aus, the bass sound on the whole gig is totally different to the Aus/NZ/Japan tour (those with recordings will know what I mean). Got date wrong sorry, it was 5 Aug not 7 Aug.
Don't know if anyone has noticed, but David Sultan's site gives the Cambridge date as 18 July 85, between the Hacienda and WOMAD. Strange, as there would be no students there in July ! He must have got that from somewhere though.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Don't know if anyone has noticed, but David Sultan's site gives the Cambridge date as 18 July 85, between the Hacienda and WOMAD. Strange, as there would be no students there in July ! He must have got that from somewhere though.
Looks like it was actually in *JUNE* 85, at least according to http://home.clara.net/colpur/CTW.html (scroll halfway down or search for 'New Order') There's some interesting pics there, as well as a hand-drawn schedule of events, apparently NO played between 11:00PM - midnight. What a strange one-off, this "Pink, Punk, Pimms event at New Hall College, Cambridge"...it looks like a high school prom to me! Pinning it down to 18 JUN 85 works for me, but I don't have a smoking gun for this one.
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985
Wasn't a graduation ball that night ?
Yeah, I guess Cambridge has a tradition of these. I wonder how in the world they got New Order to come there. Maybe the Tony Wilson connection?
This was definitely in June, since balls in other years seem to be the second/third week of that month.
Originally posted by the happy one > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985Wasn't a graduation ball that night ?
Yeah, I guess Cambridge has a tradition of these. I wonder how in the world they got New Order to come there. Maybe the Tony Wilson connection?
This was definitely in June, since balls in other years seem to be the second/third week of that month.
Hi The
Check your inbox please mate.
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985Wasn't a graduation ball that night
Congrats, I'm well impressed someone tracked this down!!
It's possible that this date is correct - New Order played Reading Uni on 30th June 87, which was my last allowed date on campus (long story) but when I graduated in 89 I left on 13th July so it's believable that Cambridge had a similar date in 1985.
Well done for tracking this down!
Hi The
Check your inbox please mate.
Got it, but it nearly got trashed in the spam folder :) Will reply to it shortly.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985Wasn't a graduation ball that night
Congrats, I'm well impressed someone tracked this down!!
It's possible that this date is correct - New Order played Reading Uni on 30th June 87, which was my last allowed date on campus (long story) but when I graduated in 89 I left on 13th July so it's believable that Cambridge had a similar date in 1985.
Well done for tracking this down!
Read above Al....June not July !
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 19852) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.
I've not heard this show yet, but do you think it might not be the Atlanta show from that tour? I say that for this reason: 1)There was a Brit whose name escapes me who not only used to run a record shop there at the time called Atmosphere Records which sold imports and bootleg lps, but he also was a bigtime NO trader who I think taped the '86 and '89 Atlanta shows and I'm sure would've taped the '85 one as well. Maybe one of you guys traded with him back in the day or for that matter flat out is him. So given the fact that all the other Atlanta shows were taped, it seems to me a reasonable bet that that one was too.
Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night. Has Chosen Time, and awful version that shows it clearly hasn't been rehearsed, and if I remember rightly the New Orleans version is very tight.
I'll dig out the entire tour over the weekend and listen to them all for lyric changes etc, Barney often tended to make something up on stage, like it and then use it again the next night, even on already-recorded songs.
I'll add this gig to the batch that will be with you shortly.
Incidentally all you music fans, have a look at this poster from the New Orleans show. Deliberate mistake ?
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night. Has Chosen Time, and awful version that shows it clearly hasn't been rehearsed, and if I remember rightly the New Orleans version is very tight. I'll dig out the entire tour over the weekend and listen to them all for lyric changes etc, Barney often tended to make something up on stage, like it and then use it again the next night, even on already-recorded songs. I'll add this gig to the batch that will be with you shortly.Incidentally all you music fans, have a look at this poster from the New Orleans show. Deliberate mistake ?http://www.neworderonline.com/Concert.aspx?ConcertID=185
Thought about the Chosen Time deal too. Easily could've pulled it out one night and screwed it to hell and gone back the next night and rehearsed it at the soundcheck or something. Of course it's not a clincher either way.
Also, I'm supposedly getting that show from another source so don't sweat copying it for me. I don't want to impose anymore than I have.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night.
I have a writeup for the New Orleans gig already:
http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs85.html#NO-850812
My favorite line from this one is when Barney says:
"Thank you very much. As Divine said, 'I've had more people in bed than there is in this room tonight'....but not quite as much feedback."
I even have an MP3 of "Chosen Time" (see the above URL). Significant because this is the last time New Order ever play it.
Well seeing as they played all the venues round her...PRESTON,BLACKBURN and TATTON COMMUNITY CENTRE i cannot really think there is anywhere else they could have played.As for the ASTORIA in LONDON i have been here several times and find it a brilliant venue.Easy to get served at the bars but you have to watch as you leave the place sometimes if the GAY DISCO is on after 11 pm!
Sorry ...wrong thread!
Originally posted by The Happy One > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night.I have a writeup for the New Orleans gig already:http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs85.html#NO-850812My favorite line from this one is when Barney says:"Thank you very much. As Divine said, 'I've had more people in bed than there is in this room tonight'....but not quite as much feedback."I even have an MP3 of "Chosen Time" (see the above URL).Significant because this is the last time New Order everplay it.
Unless this unknown gig comes after New Orleans, and the shoddy version of Chosen Time was the straw that broke the camel's back ?
Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.
Tim
Whilst I have 340 New Order gigs, i am relying on you to suss this one, apparently you are the guru!!!!!!!
Mike
I sent David an e-mail talking about mistakes in our lists.
Check with him if I am right this time
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.
Okay, noted, I've made the correction on my side, but who mentioned anything about 1986?
Heh, how bizarre, the following post just came into faclist@yahoogroups:
From: "Stephen Hanula" To: Subject: [faclist] ACR
I live in the US, the mid west to be exact. New Order has only beenthrough my neck of the woods a hand full of times. The one time I saw them was in Akron Ohio in the early to mid 80's, I don't exactly remember it was a long time ago. ACR opened for them and blew New Order off the stage that night. I still like New Order better but that night ACR was really good and New Order looked like they had to have a gun to their heads to even take the stage.
I've followed up with the particular individual to see if he can remember what songs were played. Hopefully, he will remember enough to determine whether the mystery gig was indeed Akron or not.
Originally posted by The Happy One Heh, how bizarre, the following post just came intofaclist@yahoogroups:> From: "Stephen Hanula" > To: > Subject: [faclist] ACR> ACR opened for them and blew New Order > off the stage that night.
As much as I like ACR I really can't imagine them ever 'blowing' New Order off the stage!
Originally posted by The Happy One > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.
Okay, noted, I've made the correction on my side, but who mentioned anything about 1986?
You did in the reference to the gig on your site, attributing it to me !
Interestingly, Reg gives the date as 07 AUG 86, but http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has this as 05 AUG 85, so I've gone with the latter for now.
You did in the reference to the gig on your site, attributing it to me !
Interestingly, Reg gives the date as 07 AUG 86, but http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has this as 05 AUG 85, so I've gone with the latter for now.
ARRRGH ...Please shoot me, here's a target 
I went ahead and deleted the attribution, since you affirmed the 05 AUG 85 date later on.
:) 
Keep up the good work - got literally hundreds of snippets of updates for you, guess we should take them off-list though. My e-mail's on the site link in my signature.....
This just in. Looks like our mystery tape can't be from Akron, as the tracklist this person gives doesn't match up with the tape, not even close:
Some notes:
#5 is likely 'As It Is When It Was' #7 could be anything, given New Order's wildly varying setlists from night to night, but since the poster indicates it was a Brotherhood track, I'd guess 'Weirdo'.
The negative reviews given to this performace that New Order are entirely consistent with (a) no encore (b) multiple songs played that the punters weren't going to be familiar with, and (c) Blue Monday as the initial track.
From: "Stephen Hanula" To: Subject: Re: [faclist] ACR
I can't remember the set list but a friend of mine actually wrote it down and also the correct date. Here's the CORRECT ORDER. The correct day was 8-5-85 (Monday, August 5, 1985 as I couldn't do my RADIO NINE show ). At the Akron Agora. A Certain Ratio opened.
End of set. No encore.
So the best guess at this point is 11 AUG 85, Atlanta. It also jibes in well with the shambolic performance of Chosen Time and its subsequent removal from the set.
What would have been the venue name? In 1983, they played Club 688, in 1986, Fox Theatre.
Good stuff. So Track #5 is As It Is then, and track #7 is either State of the Nation or Weirdo. Wouldn't have been let's Go as they'd not do two instrumentals in the one set.
No idea about an Atlanta venue, Fox Theatre seems likeliest I would imagine. We'll have to keep digging !
I've got a friend who was supposed to go to that show, but didn't. I'll see if I can't track him down. Sometimes he's a bit elusive. Also, does the tape give any indication of the size of the place? The Fox is around the size of the Brixton Academy, and would have more of a cavernous sound than a club. If it has that sound, it's most likely the Fox as that was really the only venue of that size going in Atlanta at the time. There were quite a few clubs that it could have been if it were that type of show (688 or the Cotton Club being the most likely).
Most likely the Fox, given that: a) Low-life was an album that gained them alot of popularity in the States on college radio b/c of Love Vigilantes b) I was at the New Orleans show at MacAlister's and have also been to several of the other venues listed and they are comparable to the Fox in size.
Most likely the Fox, given that: a) Low-life was an album that gained them alot of popularity in the States on college radio b/c of Love Vigilantes b) I was at the New Orleans show at MacAlister's and have also been to several of the other venues listed and they are comparable to the Fox in size.
I found an anecdote at http://music.realbuy.ws/B00006RGMS.html that supports the claim that the Fox Theatre was the location of the New Order '85 Atlanta gig:
"I remember camping out overnight in the lobby of the Fox Theatre in Atlanta in order to buy tickets to see New Order on the Low-Life tour, something I've never done before or since for any other act (I got 2nd row seats!)."
This isn't extremely strong evidence, as he could have just misidentifed the 12 DEC 86 date, but it is a point in favor.
Originally posted by Solitude I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:SunriseSooner Than You ThinkSubcultureAge Of ConsentAs It Is When It WasHurt586Chosen TimePerfect KissConfusionChecked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Are you talking about this yet ?
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Solitude> I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?> > I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:> > Sunrise> Sooner Than You Think> Subculture> Age Of Consent> As It Is When It Was> Hurt> 586> Chosen Time> Perfect Kiss> Confusion> > Checked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Are you talking about this yet ?
What planet you on Julio ? That's exactly what we are talking about !
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Earth.But you talk like nerds
it's nerds like us that keep this shit alive.
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart JeffThis is why I admire you
and here, I thought it was because I'm a chef!!!
Originally posted by Mike Garrity Errrrrrr duhEaxactly what date do you all belive the date to beMike
22nd November 2003.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle We think it is Atlanta Fox Theatre 11 Aug 85, but still trying to confirm this.
Whoah, thanks Tim. Not Hong Kong as I guessed!
Still love the attempt at Chosen Time!!!
After a careful listen of this performance, which has to rank as one of the worst of New Order's career (that in and of itself makes it worth the price of admission), I'm inclined to believe that this was definitely performed somewhere in Australiasia, rather than in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm hesitant to claim that this is the Hong Kong gig, however, but it could be a heretofore unknown late April/early May Japanese date.
Here's why.
The audience is QUIET. Very typical of their Asian gigs (cf. PFD).
Listen to the intro of Sunrise. A couple of people are yelling in what appears to be Japanese. Definitely *not* English.
As It Is When It Was (or rather, Age Of Consent, as Barney confuses the setlist order, haha) is introduced as a "very new song". This wouldn't have been so new halfway during the US Lowlife tour. By the way, "Bullet In My Ear" (rather than "Head") seems to be what it's called. Should be easy to do an A/B against the PFD version of AIIWIW to see a possible resemblance.
Japan is a big country. I have a bit of a hard time believing New Order played just two Tokyo dates. In 1987, after Tokyo, they played Osaka and Nagoya. Maybe they did that here as well.
Maybe we can crosscheck if we can find out who opened for or was play with New Order on the Tokyo Japan 85 gigs.
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere.
Originally posted by The Happy One After a careful listen of this performance, which has to rank as one of the worst of New Order's career (that in and of itself makes it worth the price of admission), I'm inclined to believe that this was definitely performed somewhere in Australiasia, rather than in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm hesitant to claim that thisis the Hong Kong gig, however, but it could be a heretofore unknown late April/early May Japanese date.Here's why.1. The audience is QUIET. Very typical of their Asian gigs (cf. PFD). It's a mixer, of course they are quiet ! They perk up during older songs, which would suggest the gig pre-dates Low Life, I will agree.2. Listen to the intro of Sunrise. A couple of people are yelling in what appears to be Japanese. Definitely*not* English. not very distinguishable, will have another listen but couldn't pick anything of substance up3. As It Is When It Was (or rather, Age Of Consent, as Barney confuses the setlist order, haha) is introduced as a "very new song". This wouldn't have been so new halfway during the US Lowlife tour. By the way, "Bullet In My Ear" (rather than "Head") seems to be what it's called. Should be easy to do an A/B against the PFD version of AIIWIW to see a possible resemblance. He was still calling it a new song, or very new song, in December 85 ! There is a different guitar part towards the end in the early versions, that is not present on this take, hence the initial placing it in early August 854. Japan is a big country. I have a bit of a hard time believing New Order played just two Tokyo dates. In 1987, after Tokyo, they played Osaka and Nagoya. Maybe they did that here as well. they only went there to write some songs, apparently ! We know they did Osaka on 4/5/85, don't you have this recording ?Maybe we can crosscheck if we can find out who opened for or was play with New Order on the Tokyo Japan 85 gigs.As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere.Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
This has been my favourite thread recently, I just admire and envy the details which some of you guys and gals pick up on, and use to place the gig. However, we have no consensus, which is what makes the thread even better! I have absolutely nothing concrete or sensible (or not sensible) to add, but I'll play it again soon and will let you know...
BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
Originally posted by Marko BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
We found them after 19 years......judging by the browser info coming from the source code of the page they are on, they have been online for several years.
Low-Life was released May 85, if I recall correctly, but whether the gig was played in April/May or August of that year, the fans would have naturally reacted more to the older songs. And in this gig, nearly half the set is the newer stuff.
I had to listen to it a few times, but I very much doubt it's words you'd hear in the Deep South.
My A/B is still pending, but yeah, that you mention it, your point that AIIWIW sounded fairly well-formed is a point in favor for it being later, unless I can find other gigs where AIIWIW were similar.
Well, at least my guess about there being more than two Japan dates was right. NOPE! Do you have the setlist for that one?
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere. Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
The source I was reading definitely said end of May/early June. Yeh, the Cambridge one-off was around then, why not another? I'll see if I can dig up the reference, my first pass thru my mail archives didn't turn it up.
--Sam
Originally posted by The Happy One
Low-Life was released May 85, if I recall correctly, but whether the gig was played in April/May or August of that year, the fans would have naturally reacted more to the older songs. And in this gig, nearly half the set is the newer stuff.
I had to listen to it a few times, but I very much doubt it's words you'd hear in the Deep South.
My A/B is still pending, but yeah, that you mention it, your point that AIIWIW sounded fairly well-formed is a point in favor for it being later, unless I can find other gigs where AIIWIW were similar.
Well, at least my guess about there being more than two Japan dates was right. NOPE! Do you have the setlist for that one? Yep. Very similar to this unidentified show actually.
perfect kiss confusion age of consent sub-culture ialp lonesome tonight sooner than you think hurt sunrise blue monday as it is when it was (very very early and raw version !!)
I'll copy the gig for you.
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere. Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
The source I was reading definitely said end of May/early June. Yeh, the Cambridge one-off was around then, why not another? I'll see if I can dig up the reference, my first pass thru my mail archives didn't turn it up. There's a subtle difference between a 70 mile road trip to Cambridge University and a flight to Hawaii !! No way would that have been a one-off, they didn't make that sort of money !
Originally posted by Marko BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
That was an amazing find? Who was responsible?!
Hands up then, who's mailed the lad to ask if he might remember what New Order played that night?!
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Marko> BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
That was an amazing find? Who was responsible?!
Hands up then, who's mailed the lad to ask if he might remember what New Order played that night?!
Sam found it I think. I mailed the guy with the photos, no response. Don't think he was a fan.
For what its worth, the following is an excerpt of an e-mail I received from someone who lives near Atlanta and attended the Atlanta '85 gig.
"...i certainly can't confirm or deny it, i've looked for a tape of that show, but never found one. don't recall the set list exactly, but do remember they played most of the songs you listed below. so it probably is atlanta. i do remember it was a very sloppy show, so that fits with your rating also..."
"...i certainly can't confirm or deny it, i've looked for a tape of that show, but never found one. don't recall the set list exactly, but do remember they played most of the songs you listed below. so it probably is atlanta. i do remember it was a very sloppy show, so that fits with your rating also..."
Great info there. There was a little more discussion in the buy/sell/trade forum. I listened to the between-song audience banter and that DEFINITELY nails this down as a US gig. And given that the group had the wildly varying set rotation (as well as wildly varying quality of performances), those are more heavy points in favor of the 850811 date.
Here: http://www.new-order.net/av/Depot/somewhere1985_punters.mp3
--Sam
Originally posted by The Happy One > "...i certainly can't confirm or deny it, i've looked for a tape of that show, but never found one. don't recall the set list exactly, but do remember they played most of the songs you listed below. so it probably is atlanta. i do remember it was a very sloppy show, so that fits with your rating also..."Great info there. There was a little more discussion in the buy/sell/trade forum. I listened to the between-song audience banter and that DEFINITELY nails this down as a US gig. And given that the group had the wildly varying set rotation (as well as wildly varying quality of performances), those are more heavy points in favor of the 850811 date.Here: http://www.new-order.net/av/Depot/somewhere1985_punters.mp3--Sam
The individual who went to this show and provided the above info has confirmed that the gig was at the Fox Theatre. He is attempting to locate his ticket stub from the gig.
? We wait with eager anticipation....
