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Originally posted by Philip Collins ACR were definitely denounced in this way tho' I'm not sure it was John Peel. Factory in general were labelled as Nazi in an article in Private Eye - of course none of ACR's denouncers appeared to notice the presence of Donald Johnson in the band!
or that Factory director Alan Erasmus was both black and Jewish!
Originally posted by SuperNova > Originally posted by 404 error> > Yea, all that 'shocking' wearing of swastikas etc was deeply, deeply dumb. Wasn't it Siouxsie who infamously declared 'too many jews for my liking', can't recall if it was on stage or in a lyric.> > An asian friend once mentioned he never got into that music because he found all that stuff a bit threatening.
Being of Aisan descent myself (and growing up on the receiving end of racism) I actually stopped listening to JD for a while when I first found about about the associated nazi imagery, but then read alot about how it was all part of the shock value of the punk movement. Even if they were serious about it (which I don't they were) it's ironic how their music has still reached people of all creeds and colour. Anyway what I really enjoy about JD is the bass & guitarwork and I haven't really heard anything in the lyrics that suggested racist beliefs or the like... 
Yeah, I don't think JD were actually racist or fascist in any way, though I kind of suspect Ian might well have been a 'Tory' of some sort (but I can live with that). But its the general use of nazi type iconography by some of that generation of bands, allegedly in an attempt to shock their 'we fought the war for you' parents, that seems seriously insular. As if the main significance of that imagery for them was some intergenerational dispute between non jewish white people, rather than the way it appeared to people outside that group.
Originally posted by FDISK I agree with Philip Collins (though his records are shite)
what is more boring than lists and polls?
You can't avoid the 'Nazi' issue if you are into this band (though it's all bollocks) If you were young in the UK (or Germany, France etc.)in the seventies your parents or grandparents probably had strong opinions on WW2 and the 'enemy'. I knew a lot of schoolmates who read about all this sort of stuff (guns, uniforms, badges, hatred etc - Hello there gansta rappers!)- none of them Nazis (as far as I know).That said Bowie is a c### and Eric Clapton should have been sent back to where he came from (but should have had his fingers broken first)
See, I pretty much agree about Bowie and Clapton, but at least in the first case I think I kinda have double standards, partly cos for Bowie I heard of the incident you mention whan I was just a kid and immediately decided I hated him before I'd heard his music while with NO I encountered the music first, foolishness second.
The only excuse I can think of is that NO, Siouxsie and the rest got their foolishness over with when they were young and stupid, while Bowie and Clapton should have been old enough to know better. Plus their music is crap anyway!
Long before I got into punk or even heard of JD, I read a lot about WW2 and became obsessed with the Nazis. Being German by ancestory, I couldn't quite understand why anyone would embrace that philosophy. I think I'm not going to be the first to say that (from the POV of a purely ten-year old boy who enjoys playing "war" with his buddies and the like) that the Nazis had "cooler uniforms", so I can understand the fascination with the imagery. But the message of the Nazis never held any appeal for me (if you go around blaming other groups of people for your own problems, you're just pathetic). I think any cursory examination of the body of literature surrounding JD reveals that the guys weren't openly anti-Semitic, they just used the imagery (less so than, say, the Pistols) as part of the show.
Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by 404 error> Yea, all that 'shocking' wearing of swastikas etc was deeply, deeply dumb. Wasn't it Siouxsie who infamously declared 'too many jews for my liking', can't recall if it was on stage or in a lyric.> > An asian friend once mentioned he never got into that music because he found all that stuff a bit threatening.
The 'Too many Jews' line was from an early version of 'Love in a Void' tho' to be fair to Siouxsie she did change the lyric pretty quickly when she realised how offensive it was. They also attempted to redress the balance with the 'Mittageisen' single by using a collage by a renowned anti-Nazi German artist (whose name temporarily escapes me) for the sleeve.
John Heartfield is the man, I believe.
I thought it was an NME review of an ACR single that led to their Nazi accusations, that's what I can recall at this time.
Firstly, i always thought Walked in Line was kinda about the the wermacht and how they, as a sensible army, were caught up in all uncle adolf's fucked up ideas. Secondly, it has always been my belief, that, in addition to the fact that punks addopted nazi imagery as a cheap shot to piss people off, it was also very much to do with saying..."this country is just like the one you fought so hard to deafeat, we need anarchy".
while Bowie and Clapton should have been old enough to know better. Plus their music is crap anyway!
Amen, brother.
I recall an article after a Happy Mondays tour where Bez was asked how he liked Japan. He said he didn't like it because it was "full of Chinese people".
Originally posted by Steve Campbell Firstly, i always thought Walked in Line was kinda about the the wermacht and how they, as a sensible army, were caught up in all uncle adolf's fucked up ideas.Secondly, it has always been my belief, that, in addition to the fact that punks addopted nazi imagery as a cheap shot to piss people off, it was also very much to do with saying..."this country is just like the one you fought so hard to deafeat, we need anarchy".
Walked in Line was written after Ian had read an article about East German troops in Angola, rather non-Wehrmacht !
Originally posted by Andy I recall an article after a Happy Mondays tour where Bez was asked how he liked Japan. He said he didn't like it because it was "full of Chinese people".
Ha ha ha ha ha ha 
THE FALL were originally called THE MASTER RACE, THE DEATH SENSE hahahahaha coming from the man that once sang "Where are the obligatory niggers?"
Originally posted by death of art > Originally posted by Andy> I recall an article after a Happy Mondays tour where Bez was asked how he liked Japan. He said he didn't like it because it was "full of Chinese people".
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
didn't really think that was funny, it's an ignorant racist remark that reveals Bez's single digit IQ, what an idiot! 
Perhaps it's funny because it's so dumb. The fact that it points to Bez not even knowing what country Chinese or Japanese people are from says it all really.
That's funny at Bez's expense, not Japan's.
