Gigography inconsistencies 1986-7

The lastest installment comparing the date/venue listings for Water Rat vs World In Motion (and NOOL, when applicable)

1986

WR lists 860816 Valby - Copenhagen, Denmark, which WIM does not.

WIM indicates that the setlist for 860913 Caird Hall - Dundee, Scotland was identical to the previous night's performance in Glasgow, Barrowlands. WR indicates that they were different. I'm liable to believe WR...

WR has the October 86 Hacienda gig as 861007, WIM has 861013.

WR lists these following gigs for the 86 US tour that WIM does not:

861109 (or was this 861110?) Salt Lake City, Utah. Only notes on setlist was that Lonesome Tonight was played.

861121 Aragon Ballroom, Chicago IL.

861204 University of Pennsylvania. I'm fairly certain that this happened, as I have a tape of this performance.

861213 Tampa Bay Theatre, Tampa Bay, FL. I've heard enough to suggest that this certainly happened as well.

WR indicates that NO played Massey Hall in Toronto on 861127 in addition to 861126. WIM does not.

1987

Ah, the Australian tour...arguably NO at their live performance height.

WIM gives the dates foor the Surfer's Paradise Gold Coast AU "Bombay Rocks" gig as 870206 and Roxy Brisbane gig as 870207. WR has these reversed. I'm pretty certain WIM is correct here. NOOL diverges from both of these and gives the 870206 gig as East Leagues Club, Brisbane (which is an echo of their 1985 visit and is completely wrong) and 870207 same as original WR.

My mirror of WR's site has setlists for all the Aussie gigs listed, except for the infamous 870221 Red Parrot gig where a tape malfunction wiped out the first 45 minutes, so only the last four songs made it to tape, apparently.

WR gives a vague May 87 date for a Plaza de Torres Valencia Spain date. NOOL lists this as 870515. WIM does not have any listing whatsoever.

WIM lists an 870627 Copenhagen date, WR does not.

WR has these dates for the 87 US tour that WIM doesn't. With the exception of the Chicago (full) and Compton Terrace AZ gig (partial), none of these have setlists.

870813 Northrup Auditorium, Univ. of Minnesota, Minneapolis

870815 Pine Knob Amphitheatre, Clarkston (Detroit), Michigan

870816 Poplar Creek Music Theatre, Hoffman Estates (Chicago), Illinois

870821 Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia, Maryland

870909 Salt Lake City, Utah. NOOL lists Parkwest Amphitheatre as the venue.

870911 San Diego, California

870915 Compton Terrace, Phoenix, AZ (partial setlist) Confusion, Temptation, The Perfect Kiss, As It Is When It Was

Originally posted by The Happy One The lastest installment comparing the date/venue listings for Water Rat vs World In Motion (and NOOL, when applicable)1986WR lists 860816 Valby - Copenhagen, Denmark, which WIM does not.No doubt about this show or the date at all. 1-0 to the Rats !WIM indicates that the setlist for 860913 Caird Hall - Dundee, Scotland was identical to the previous night's performance in Glasgow, Barrowlands. WR indicates that they were different. I'm liable to believe WR...Own goal by the Sultan of Bling - 2-0 to WRWR has the October 86 Hacienda gig as 861007, WIM has 861013.Sultan pulls one back with a correct listing!WR lists these following gigs for the 86 US tour that WIM does not:861109 (or was this 861110?) Salt Lake City, Utah. Only notes on setlist was that Lonesome Tonight was played.No idea. Never seen this on anyone's list, so only have the quote listed on WR to go on.861121 Aragon Ballroom, Chicago IL.The setlist is listed on WR, never seen a recording though !861204 University of Pennsylvania. I'm fairly certain that this happened, as I have a tape of this performance.100% definitely happened. Good gig too.861213 Tampa Bay Theatre, Tampa Bay, FL. I've heard enough to suggest that this certainly happened as well. yes it did. never seen tape thoughWR indicates that NO played Massey Hall in Toronto on 861127 in addition to 861126. WIM does not.this was listed on a list many years ago as an RSO, lister wouldn't divulge tracklisting. likely to be bogus entry1987Ah, the Australian tour...arguably NO at their live performance height.WIM gives the dates foor the Surfer's Paradise Gold Coast AU "Bombay Rocks" gig as 870206 and Roxy Brisbane gig as 870207. WR has these reversed. I'm pretty certain WIM is correct here. NOOL diverges from both of these and gives the 870206 gig as East Leagues Club, Brisbane (which is an echo of their 1985 visit and is completely wrong) and 870207 same as original WR. Bombay Rock Club in Surfers Paradise was 6 Feb 87, Brisbane Roxy was 7 Feb 87. My mirror of WR's site has setlists for all the Aussie gigs listed, except for the infamous 870221 Red Parrot gig where a tape malfunction wiped out the first 45 minutes, so only the last four songs made it to tape, apparently.A pity, I read that the taper forgot to hit record, hitting play instead for the first 45 mins !!WR gives a vague May 87 date for a Plaza de Torres Valencia Spain date. NOOL lists this as 870515. WIM does not have any listing whatsoever.Rumoured to have taken place. Venue correct. Spanish mate of mine believed there were two shows, this and Mollerussa Pabellon.WIM lists an 870627 Copenhagen date, WR does not.Ah.....this "gig" was doing the rounds in 1987/88, it turned out to be a composite (very well done though) of Reading and Woolwich 87. This did not happen to the best of my knowldedge.WR has these dates for the 87 US tour that WIM doesn't.With the exception of the Chicago (full) and Compton Terrace AZ gig (partial), none of these have setlists.870813 Northrup Auditorium, Univ. of Minnesota, Minneapolis870815 Pine Knob Amphitheatre, Clarkston (Detroit), Michigan 870816 Poplar Creek Music Theatre, Hoffman Estates (Chicago), Illinois870821 Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia, Maryland870909 Salt Lake City, Utah. NOOL lists Parkwest Amphitheatre as the venue.870911 San Diego, California870915 Compton Terrace, Phoenix, AZ (partial setlist) Confusion, Temptation, The Perfect Kiss, As It Is When It WasAll of these took place, I received a 1987 tour schedule from Factory back then (I wrote and requested it). There was also another show that wasn't listed, at Providence Rhode Island. It may be worth checking with the Bunnymen setlists pages on their site, as they list every show played, and the two bands were joint headliners on this tour. Bunnymen site is currently down, but I have asked Gene Love Jezebel (openers on this tour) to confirm which gigs were played.

861213 Tampa Bay Theatre, Tampa Bay, FL. I've heard enough to suggest that this certainly happened as well. yes it did. never seen tape though

not only that, but the qwest poster advertising that US tour lists it as lasting through december 15th. Probably played another show after that. Miami?

I guess WR slaugtered WIM there, I'm not going to even bother with figuring out the final score. Series tied up at 2-2. Sultans of Bling FC will need something drastic to reverse the slide...

So, we have to find dates for Providence, RI and Miami, FI then.

I heard back from Waterrat. he's still unsure on whether he wants to let go of his list. In all likelihood, the NOOL site will (should) end up housing the content for the various contributers. In the meantime, I'm making corrections to my "mirror" just for my own sanity, and in the hopes that Anthony can just pull my file down when he _is_ ready to make updates if he decides to continue keeping it up to date.

If I have some spare time between servings of turkey, I'll post the 88-89 results.

--Sam

Date on the ticket, I guess.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by The Happy One> I guess WR slaugtered WIM there, I'm not going to even bother with figuring out the final score. Series tied up at 2-2. Sultans of Bling FC will need something drastic to reverse the slide...

In fairness to David, he seems to have collated all this off his own back

?!

Didn't he just buy it off someone else ?

In fairness to David, he seems to have collated all this off his own back, whereas Water Rat's had help from other people and has (I believe) been going a lot longer?!

Yeah, both of these observations appear to be true. The interesting question to ask is why Water Rat appears to have and acknowledges that he had help but David does not.

However, Water Rat's also taken a step back from all things New Order for maybe as much as three or four years now. I remember he was active around the 98 gigs, but decided he didn't have the time to keep his site up to date and just left his gigography up and running.

While he has taken a step back, up until about July of this year, he was still updating the Gigography, even if he still has Old Trafford "coming soon". He appears not to have the time to devote to it, which I respect, even if it's a bit aggravating trying to get some of the errors in the listing corrected.

I prefer Water Rat's listings over all others just cos you get the whole lot in one concise page of html. Makes for much easier reading than wading through multiple pages.

What other listings are there, by the way? I only know of the WIM and NOOL ones. NOOL is so derivative of the WR listing at this point that I really don't count it. I know the http://www.niagara.edu/neworder site used to have a listing of tapes/boots, but that appears to not be there anymore.

Whilst we're on the subject, where do we draw the line at New Order coming on stage after midnight, huh? Do we adjust the dates accordingly thoughout all sites? I know it's not a regular occurence, but it must've happened a few times down the years?!

We should continue use the venue "when doors open" date (except with multiday festival events, where we would use the "when doors open" on the day NO plays) and just note that the group took the stage after midnight.

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One In fairness to David, he seems to have collated all this off his own back, whereas Water Rat's had help from other people and has (I believe) been going a lot longer?!Yeah, both of these observations appear to be true. The interesting question to ask is why Water Rat appears to have and acknowledges that he had help but David does not.

David buys, he doesn't trade, share or co-exist with the rest of the global New Order community.

tim.. gene loves jezebel now theres a blast from the past. my bro got quite friendly with the band during his time at uni and helped out at quite alot of the uk gigs. he never managed to blag his way onto the us tour...not sure how they got such a lucrative slot as they didnt have a lot to do with factory or that scene in general. can you shed any light ??

Paul Congratulations on the 500 th post, did you get the cd's?

Mike

The latest photo of the Rob Gretton stash changes a couple of things here - we can clearly see both a Salt Lake City tape and one from the 27th Nov in Toronto, so there were two Toronto shows after all. We also now have the Chicago 86 tape since this thread was originally posted.

http://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/archive/showartefact.php?aid=1687&bid=693

...some evidence that Providence did actually happen is here now.

Have you got a date for it?

WR indicates that NO played Massey Hall in Toronto on 861127 in addition to 861126. WIM does not.

I do remember when Much Music would run the Canada Concert Listings I recall New Order being Listed for 2 Dates at Massey Hall. The only reason I remember the piece is becuase they used the video for Perfect Kiss, which was never shown at the time, so I always stayed glued to the to catch the bit of the video.

FC Can Can Man wrote: WR indicates that NO played Massey Hall in Toronto on 861127 in addition to 861126. WIM does not.

And tapes of both nights exist......

Hmmm... interesting