Mixing Desk Recordings of NO Gigs

Due to the overwhelming response to my post from earlier this week regarding the creation of the definitive list of NO mixing desk recordings (thanks Tim!), I've listed the shows that are known/thought to exist - some among traders, but not all. If anyone has others to add, please feel free to do so.

The list has been (and will continue to be) revised based on the comments below:

Mixing Desk Sourced Recordings

1981

16 May 81 Hamburg, Germany (incomplete) 19 May 81 Stockholm, Sweden

1982

11 Mar 82 Newcastle, England (?) (incomplete) 22 Jun 82 Milan, Italy 08 Dec 82 Wellington, New Zealand

1983

12 Mar 83 Tolworth, England

1984

31 Mar 84 Frankfurt, Germany 07 Jul 84 Barcelona, Spain 16 Aug 84 Hull, England 20 Aug 84 Margate, England (incomplete)

1985

02 May 85 Tokyo, Japan 20 Jun 85 Mersea Island, England 04 Aug 85 Toronto, Canada (incomplete) 19 Aug 85 Oakland, California 06 Dec 85 London, England 07 Dec 85 Slough, England 11 Dec 85 Rennes, France 13 Dec 85 Orleans, France (incomplete) 17 Dec 85 Leuven, Belgium

1986

01 Mar 86 Warrington, England (incomplete) 27 Mar 86 Oxford, England 06 Oct 86 London, England 04 Nov 86 Hollywood, California

1988

01 Dec 88 San Paulo, Brazil

1989

26 Mar 89 Birmingham, England (incomplete) 16 Jun 89 Irvine, California 30 Jun 89 Chicago, Illinois (?) 05 Jul 89 Cleveland, Ohio 17 Jul 89 Detroit, Michigan

1993

21 Jul 93 Dallas, Texas

2001

18 Jul 01 Liverpool, England 05 Aug 01 Devore, California 11 Aug 01 Cologne, Germany (incomplete) 11 Nov 01 Paris, France 15 Nov 01 Berlin, Germany

Broadcast Sourced Recordings

1981

20 Jun 81 Somerset, England 19 Nov 81 New York, New York

1982

17 Apr 82 Paris, France

1983

24 Apr 83 Kilkenny, Ireland

1984

02 Apr 84 Zurich, Switzerland 10 Jul 84 Marbella, Spain

1985

01 May 85 Tokyo, Japan (almost always poor quality)

1986

19 Jul 86 Manchester, England (incomplete)

1987

04 Apr 87 London, England (incomplete) 19 Jun 87 Somerset, England

1989

25 Mar 89 Glasgow, Scotland (incomplete)

1993

02 Jul 93 Montreux, Switzerland (incomplete) 29 Aug 93 Reading, England (incomplete)

1998

30 Aug 98 Reading, England (incomplete)

2001

28 Jul 01 Naeba, Japan (almost always poor quality) 12 Nov 01 Paris, France (incomplete) 15 Nov 01 Berlin, Germany 16 Nov 01 Cologne, Germany (incomplete) 18 Nov 01 Stockholm, Sweden (incomplete)

2002

20 Jan 02 Queensland, Australia (incomplete) 09 Jun 02 London, England (incomplete) 15 Jun 02 Hultsfred, Sweden 29 Jun 02 Roskilde, Denmark (incomplete)

I've never seen these.....

11 Mar 82 Newcastle, England (?) (incomplete) 17 Apr 82 Paris, France this is FM not MX 24 May 82 Norwich, England (?) 20 Jul 83 Manchester, England 31 Mar 84 Frankfurt, Germany 02 Apr 84 Zurich, Switzerland this is FM not MX 20 Jun 85 Mersea Island, England 19 Aug 85 Oakland, California 12 Feb 87 Sydney, Australia (?)

I'm sure there are others out there as well, will have to check when I get home.

24 May 82 Norwich, England (?)

I too have pondered whether Norwich is in fact in England !

There certainly are gigs that can be added to your list Tracey, when i get the time, i will go through my colection to try and add a few gigs to this list. Marbella 84 springs to mind although I have mislaid my copy.

Originally posted by Solitude 24 May 82 Norwich, England (?)I too have pondered whether Norwich is in fact in England !There certainly are gigs that can be added to your list Tracey, when i get the time, i will go through my colection to try and add a few gigs to this list. Marbella 84 springs to mind although I have mislaid my copy.

Marbella is FM as well.

I'm going to assume that all the live tracks of Retro are taken from mixers. Looking at:

http://www.neworderonline.com/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=11955

We may want to incorporate a couple of entries that got left off:

30 JUN 89 Poplar Creek Music Theatre, Hoffman Estates (Chicago) (for Fine Time) 21 JUL 93 Starplex Amphitheatre, Dallas (for World) 18 JUL 01 Olympia Theatre, Liverpool (for Turn My Way)

Also, _is_ there a mixer for 24 APR 83 Kilkenny? Always thought it too was an FM.

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One I'm going to assume that all the live tracks of Retro are taken from mixers. Looking at:http://www.neworderonline.com/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=11955We may want to incorporate a couple of entries that got left off:30 JUN 89 Poplar Creek Music Theatre, Hoffman Estates (Chicago) (for Fine Time)21 JUL 93 Starplex Amphitheatre, Dallas (for World)18 JUL 01 Olympia Theatre, Liverpool (for Turn My Way)Also, _is_ there a mixer for 24 APR 83 Kilkenny? Always thought it too was an FM.--Sam

Well, the version that everyone seems to have is definitely FM radio, but there is apparently the full show (the FM omits IALP) on a mixer out there. I've never seen it.

Originally posted by The Happy One I'm going to assume that all the live tracks of Retro are taken from mixers. Looking at:http://www.neworderonline.com/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=11955We may want to incorporate a couple of entries that got left off:30 JUN 89 Poplar Creek Music Theatre, Hoffman Estates (Chicago) (for Fine Time)21 JUL 93 Starplex Amphitheatre, Dallas (for World)18 JUL 01 Olympia Theatre, Liverpool (for Turn My Way)Also, _is_ there a mixer for 24 APR 83 Kilkenny? Always thought it too was an FM.--Sam

The assumption that the live tracks from Retro come from mixer sources is more than reasonable. I've left the ones mentioned above off the list b/c I've not seen them in circulation among traders, but it makes sense to include them. Unfortunately, there is now some question as to whether or not the Chicago '89 gig is "out there" among traders. Until recently, it was thought to be available.

Shall we leave FM sourced tapes off the list? I was inclined to include them b/c they are usually very good quality recordings.

If Elegia on Retro comes from a mixer, then I'm a Dutchman. You can hear the crowd clearer than the band...

Originally posted by Old Blue If Elegia on Retro comes from a mixer, then I'm a Dutchman. You can hear the crowd clearer than the band...

Good point. That specific question has been asked more than once. The sound quality of Elegia on the live disc of Retro is nowhere near the quality of the official BBC release or the three other missing tracks from that gig that are found on the BBC Transcription Services LP.

Shall we leave FM sourced tapes off the list? I was inclined to include them b/c they are usually very good quality recordings,

It might be worthwhile to also have a list of FM gigs. Whether you want to do it in the same listing or a separate one is just an implementation detail...

By the way, based on your information, I have http://www.new-order.net/no/facs/mixers.html online and will be incorprating changes. If this is at all not to your liking, I can take it offline.

Some other mixers.....

16/8/84 Hull City Hall 20/8/84 Margate Wintergardens (only 3 1/2 tracks) 6/10/86 Royal Albert Hall

Originally posted by The Happy One Shall we leave FM sourced tapes off the list? I was inclined to include them b/c they are usually very good quality recordings,It might be worthwhile to also have a list of FM gigs. Whether you want to do it in the same listing or a separate one is just an implementation detail...By the way, based on your information, I have http://www.new-order.net/no/facs/mixers.html online and will be incorprating changes. If this is at all not to your liking, I can take it offline.

Is it not best to wait until things are confirmed before putting them online ? This is how rumours and confusion spread, as people still take what they read as gospel. Sure, the ones we have copies of can be listed, but it is better to only add others when the can be confirmed.

Originally posted by The Happy One Shall we leave FM sourced tapes off the list? I was inclined to include them b/c they are usually very good quality recordings,

It might be worthwhile to also have a list of FM gigs. Whether you want to do it in the same listing or a separate one is just an implementation detail.

Let's do that. A separate list each for mixing desk sourced recordings and FM (and other) broadcast sourced recordings.

from the original list (and based on the versions of the gigs that I have), I think these are FM (or television, video or web cast) sourced recordings, as well:

20 Jun 81 Somerset, England 01 May 85 Tokyo, Japan (almost always poor quality) 19 Jul 86 Manchester, England 04 Apr 87 London, Egland 19 Jun 87 Somerset, England 25 Mar 89 Glasgow, Scotland (incomplete) 02 Jul 93 Montreux, Switzerland (incomplete) 29 Aug 93 Reading, England (incomplete) 30 Aug 98 Reading, England (incomplete) 28 Jul 01 Naeba, Japan (almost always poor quality) 12 Nov 01 Paris, France (incomplete) 16 Nov 01 Cologne, Germany (incomplete) 18 Nov 01 Stockholm, Sweden (incomplete) 20 Jan 02 Queensland, Australia (incomplete) 09 Jun 02 London, England (incomplete) 15 Jun 02 Hultsfred, Sweden 29 Jun 02 Roskilde, Denmark (incomplete)

Originally posted by Old Blue If Elegia on Retro comes from a mixer, then I'm a Dutchman. You can hear the crowd clearer than the band...

Wow, you are correct, sir. Elegia doesn't appear in the BBC/Windsong commercial release, and I guess they didn't have the transcription discs readily available. It's interesting that the next track on Retro (TPK) also comes from that gig, but that to me sounds like a mixer.

But why take _that_ version, and not some other performance from a different source? Only Bobby Gillespie and the assemblers of Retro would know for sure.

--Sam

it not best to wait until things are confirmed before putting them online ? This is how rumours and confusion spread, as people still take what they read as gospel. Sure, the ones we have copies of can be listed, but it is better to only add others when the can be confirmed.

I think the clearest document can be subject to accidental or willful misintrepretation. Not making a specific claim that mixers.html was particularly clear, mind you.

In the meantime, I've offlined it whilst we can get a proper list sorted out, since I now recall the comment from another taper that the actual number of NO mixers in the wild seems to not be a large number. Would you have a problem if I brought back the list, but only with the confirmed mixers listed? That'll also give me a chance to separate out the FM gigs and list them seperately.

And are there any other songs on Retro disc 4/5 besides Elegia which may not be mixers?

Originally posted by The Happy One That'll also give me a chance to separate out the FM gigs and list them seperately.

See the revisions to the original list above.

Originally posted by Tracey Spivey > That'll also give me a chance to separate out the FM gigs and list them seperately.See above.

And likewise, seperate listing is a better idea...

Added the gigs that have been mentioned above to the original list, as well as the San Paulo, Brazil gig from 1.12.88 - strictly based on the fact that Sister Ray from that gig has appeared on a compilation.

I have searched my empty brain almost in vain to come up with this meagre list of mixers:

Gothenburg 22/5/81 or is it FM? Glastonbury 20/6/81 I would say it was 100% Mixer New York 19/11/81 CLP London 5/12/85 Gig & Soundcheck mixers

I know it's not a SB recording, but I do have the first two songs of SO36 Berlin '81 from a radio broadcast. Has anybody ever heard/seen that recording in full (NOT the audience recording of course)?

Add to the FM list the 10th Summer gig at G-Mex '86. I've tried to get a CD of this on the trade forum but with no luck. This gig wasn't broadcast directly but a multitrack recording appears to have been made as it was remixed at Strawberry Studios for later broadcast on Piccadilly Radio. As a result it's a far better recording than Glastonbury '87 which appears to have been mixed as recorded and suffers as a result. Unfortunately the radio broadcast wasn't of the entire gig though. Please e-mail me if you can help.

Originally posted by Tracey Spivey Added the gigs that have been mentioned above to the original list, as well as the San Paulo, Brazil gig from 1.12.88 - strictly based on the fact that Sister Ray from that gig has appeared on a compilation.

All the gigs were filmed and taped here in Brazil.Hope this will emerge someday :D

Originally posted by James Thomas Add to the FM list the 10th Summer gig at G-Mex '86. I've tried to get a CD of this on the trade forum but with no luck. This gig wasn't broadcast directly but a multitrack recording appears to have been made as it was remixed at Strawberry Studios for later broadcast on Piccadilly Radio. As a result it's a far better recording than Glastonbury '87 which appears to have been mixed as recorded and suffers as a result. Unfortunately the radio broadcast wasn't of the entire gig though. Please e-mail me if you can help.

...and I know of a certain guy called Peter who recorded the gig, mixed it onto 1/4' tape, got Porky in Portland Place to master it and then got an ex New York Dolls roadie to press 1000 copies! what memories!!!

Originally posted by James Thomas Add to the FM list the 10th Summer gig at G-Mex '86. I've tried to get a CD of this on the trade forum but with no luck. This gig wasn't broadcast directly but a multitrack recording appears to have been made as it was remixed at Strawberry Studios for later broadcast on Piccadilly Radio. As a result it's a far better recording than Glastonbury '87 which appears to have been mixed as recorded and suffers as a result. Unfortunately the radio broadcast wasn't of the entire gig though. Please e-mail me if you can help.

Thanks. I must have dropped this one when I was dividing the list between mixing desk recordings and broadcast recordings. Its now listed with the other broadcast recordings.

I have an incomplete version of this show. I'm happy to send you a copy - check your e-mail.

Originally posted by Solitude > Originally posted by James Thomas> Add to the FM list the 10th Summer gig at G-Mex '86. I've tried to get a CD of this on the trade forum but with no luck. This gig wasn't broadcast directly but a multitrack recording appears to have been made as it was remixed at Strawberry Studios for later broadcast on Piccadilly Radio. As a result it's a far better recording than Glastonbury '87 which appears to have been mixed as recorded and suffers as a result. Unfortunately the radio broadcast wasn't of the entire gig though. Please e-mail me if you can help.

...and I know of a certain guy called Peter who recorded the gig, mixed it onto 1/4' tape, got Porky in Portland Place to master it and then got an ex New York Dolls roadie to press 1000 copies! what memories!!!

Now that's impressive.

[ ...and I know of a certain guy called Peter who recorded the gig, mixed it onto 1/4' tape, got Porky in Portland Place to master it and then got an ex New York Dolls roadie to press 1000 copies! what memories!!!

Is this the Solitude LP bootleg you refer to? I've traded for this gig from several people and none of them sound as good as that vinyl LP. Pity it's incomplete. Same with the 5-1-85 Tokyo show. The LP boot is much better than any version of the complete show that I've heard.

Also, does anyone think that the Bradford '86 or Leicester '84 shows are from the soundboard?

Originally posted by robin Also, does anyone think that the Bradford '86 or Leicester '84 shows are from the soundboard?

Don't think so. Both are good, but there is definitely a lot of audience noise in there, and some talking after SOTN at Bradford.

Originally posted by My name is Julio. I am a c**t > Originally posted by robin> > > Also, does anyone think that the Bradford '86 or Leicester '84 shows are from the soundboard?

Don't think so. Both are good, but there is definitely a lot of audience noise in there, and some talking after SOTN at Bradford.

I also think you'll find that the Sydney '87 gig isn't from the mixing desk - not b/c of audience noise, but b/c of the overall mix. The drums and vocals sound a bit too hollow to be from the mixing desk.

Originally posted by Tracey Spivey > Originally posted by My name is Julio. I am a c**t > > > > Originally posted by robin> > > > > > Also, does anyone think that the Bradford '86 or Leicester '84 shows are from the soundboard?>

Don't think so. Both are good, but there is definitely a lot of audience noise in there, and some talking after SOTN at Bradford.

I also think you'll find that the Sydney '87 gig isn't from the mixing desk - not b/c of audience noise, but b/c of the overall mix. The drums and vocals sound a bit too hollow to be from the mixing desk.

For those who are interested, note that I have removed the 20 Jul 83 Manchester and 12 Feb 87 Sydney shows from the mixing desk list. The versions I have are very good audience sourced recordings - I am fairly certain that they are not sourced from the mixing desk. If someone knows otherwise, please let me know and I will add them back to the list.

I have now removed the Norwich 24.5.82 gig from the mixing desk recordings list. Upon a closer listen, both of my copies of this gig seem to be audience recordings.

Please let me know if someone knows that a mixing desk recording of this gig exists and I will add it back to the list.

are any of these available for a tree?

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the listed sources for the tracks on Retro - think you will find there are several errors there...