OFF-TOPIC: Save The Expos!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Joe Schalk Break up the Expos, baby!!! Sorry guys, but it's time to cut this deadweight. In truthfulness, how many games did you go to? Let me divide up the players, and let my team get me a young pitcher. And close the enoromous ghost of a stadium, and drop with a 5 ton wrecking ball.

I went to several games every year, but NO, I did not go to 40 games simply because I have a life... and there are many many other things to do in Montreal, unlike most of the average american cities where we can find a baseball team.

Forget about your young pitcher -- it will take more than that to turn the Phillies into non-chokers.

As for Olympic Stadium, I'd take it any time before Veteran Stadium and its concrete surface on which Scott Rolen has been watching his knees explode one after the other.

And by the way, YOUPPI LOOKS BETTER THAN PHILLY PHANATIC!!!!

S.

Originally posted by brian geoghagan It is sad to see any team go but to be fair, the Expos only averaged about 8000 in attendance last year. That's almost 40,000 less per game than the Mariners averaged. I would rather see a newer team like Florida get the axe but baseball fans in Montreal should have supported their team by attending games.

That's not fair from you Brian.

Not so long ago the Mariners were playing in Kingdome and were making as much firesales as the Expos because they hadn't enough revenues and not so many fans came to the stadium. Remember Ken Griffey, Tino Martinez, Randy Johnson and Alex Rodriguez? Just like Olympic Stadium, the Kingdome's roof partly collapsed, etc. etc. etc.

The difference is that the Mariners were bought by a very rich Japanese group (I still don't get it) and that Safeco Field became a reality.

Plus, the Mariners' general manager's magic touch made it possible for you to put an incredibly good and winning team on the field. Brand new stadium + winning team = 40,000 fans each game. It's as simple as that. Now I'd really like to speak to you about this in 5 years from here to see if the situation will still be the same, especially if the Mariners still choke on their way to the World Series!

Now, if you were an Expos fan and had to face each of the following, how would you react?

• 1979-1982: the Expos had the team to build a dynasty, but the locker room was plagued with drug problems.
• 1981: Blue Monday (the Expos lose in the 9th inning against the Dodgers in the 5th and last game of the National League championship series, breaking the fans' hearts for years)
• 1984: Gary Carter, the most popular player ever on this franchise, being traded to the Mets for financial reasons.
• 1987: the Expos miss the division title by only few games. Andre Dawson, one of the best players ever on this team and a future Hall of Famer, becomes free agent and signs with the Chicago Cubs.
• 1989: the Expos collapse in the last month of the season after their high-priced acquisition Mark Langston (whom the Expos had traded to the Mariners for three pitchers, one of them being Randy Johnson) failed miserably to be the leader the team and the fans expected him to be.
• 1991: the Expos, once again, miss the division title by less than five games. Tim Raines, one of the most popular players ever in the franchise's history is traded to the Chicago White Sox.
• 1993: the Expos lose the division title by three games.
• 1994: In the month of August, the Expos have the best record in Major League Baseball, they are six games against the very powerful Atlanta Braves, the Olympic Stadium is filled to capacity in EVERY GAME and there is an absolute baseball fever in Montreal. THE PLAYERS STIKES COMES IN AND THE AFTER-SEASON SERIES ARE CANCELLED. Montreal Expos are declared "1994 World Champions" by MLB's office, but the fans will not forget.
• 1995: Following the new CBA agreement, which give the players an incredible advantage over the owners, the Expos have no choice but to do a massive firesale of their best players (since the local owners didn't want to invest, which was a very stupid decision): Larry Walker (our best player back then) signs with the Colorado Rockies as a free agent, Ken Hill (our best starting pitcher) is traded to Cleveland, Marquis Grissom (by then, one of the best center fielders in the game) is traded to the Atlanta Braves, and John Wetteland (the best stopper in baseball) is traded to the New York Yankees for merely NOTHING.
• 1996: Taking advantage of good trades and seeing several very good young players playing very well, the Expos battle UNTIL THE VERY LAST GAME OF THE SEASON for the wildcard place in the series. I was there, and we learned in the 2nd inning that the Padres (or was is the Astros?) won their game, which eliminated us automatically. Our hearts were broken again. After that season, the Expos will lose David Segui (good 1st baseman), Henry Rodriguez (who had hit more than 40 homeruns with us in his two seasons and has became extremely popular with the fans) and Pedro Martinez (the absolute best pitcher in baseball, who was traded to the Red Sox).
• 1998: A campaign for a new stadium is launched and everything seems to fall into place. A new majority owner takes control of the club, and he states that "from now on, it won't be business as usual for baseball in Montreal. We will keep our players and will put a good team on the field in order to win the World Series, and we will build one of the best stadiums in Major League Baseball". The fans will contribute by buying shares in the new stadium, and so does the local business community.
• 1999: The new owner puts the Stadium project on ice and claims to wait for the new CBA agreement to make sure such a project would be viable.
• 2000: The new owner drops the Expos' option on the land they had downtown to build their new stadium. The only place where the Expos could have built the perfect downtown stadium. An incredible location. The land has since been bought by another group and CONDOMINIUMS will be built in there instead.
• 1997-2001: the Expos have had very bad teams, often showing one of the worst records in baseball, and those teams didn't have much personnality. The new ownership didn't anything to build the confidence between them and the fans, and most of the time, would just AVOID speaking to the fans throughout the medias.
• 2001: the Montreal Expos are pointer by everyone's finger as the first team who should be contracted, even if this great organization has drawn more than 2 million fans on SEVERAL occasions in the 80's and 90's, and that their problem are clearly:
• The stupid raise of salaries in Major League Baseball since 10 years;
• Huge mismanagement, year after year;
• The exchange rate between the canadian and american dollars. Today, one canadian dollar is worth 62 american cents. How can you run a canadian team with revenues in canadian currency when the salaries you pay are in american currency?

Now, if you had to suffer through all of this, would you still be paying a visit to the stadium as often as before, or would you rather wait and see if the whole baseball organization stops taking you for a fool? That's exactly the situation in Montreal.

Today, there are more teams in Major League Baseball who are having financial problems than the contrary. Several of them have even SERIOUS financial problems, and those other than the Expos are:

• Florida Marlins
• Minnesota Twins
• Tampa Bay Devil Rays
• Oakland Athletics
• Kansas City Royals
• Pittsburgh Pirates
• Anaheim Angels

And we could add to that list teams like the San Diego Padres, the Cincinnati Reds and the Philadelphia Phillies who aren't competitive when it comes to sign free agents or keep their own players when they become available to free agency.

But of course, it's much easier to be voluntarily blind and ignore the real problems. It's much easier to bash a CANADIAN team, especially if that team is in a french-speaking city. These people are not real Americans, thus they don't deserve baseball.

Well, I'll tell you what:

Major League Baseball doesn't deserve Montréal.

S.

You know Taboo, the Braves were in the 80s in a very similar situation that the Expos are today, and they now be entering a whole new situation again since Ted Turner isn't the man in charge -- AOL-Time Warner (Hey, as in WARNER RECORDS -- rings a bell? :D) won't be spending on this team the way Ted Turner used to.

And remember how the Cleveland Indians were the laughing stock in the 80s? Look at what they've done in the 90s, and even this year. Same thing for the Mariners.

If teams had to be contracted, my choice would be one of the four teams which were added in the last expansion -- because they don't have a long-time history and not a long-time relationship with their fans.

Ah, well...

S.

P.S. Let's contract the Yankees!!!!!!!

It was a sarcastic comment, Tre!

The problem with the Yankees: a 115 million TV contract.

Originally posted by Joe Schalk Well .... first off I think the Phanatic would knock the shit out of what's name....oh that's right about 8 people in the world know Youpipoppydoopy's the mascot of the Expos. The concrete at the Vet is pretty nice though I must admit from having worked a few Eagles games for charity. The new turf is great. Back to the Expos, I salute the fact that you went to games, as did I, 16 Phillies games this year. But I have to ask, did you brown bag yerself for the games so as not to be identified??? Like every other Expos fan??? Only kidding, no it's shame to see anybody go -- I grew up loving the sport more than life. Tampa Bay needs to go -- I'll say that first. But regretfully, I'll continue to support eliminating the Expos, unless something radically amazing happens like the entire province launches an attack on Selig and the entire city promises to game to two games a year. But, hey love your city!!! Visited on several occasions from Upstate NY where I grew up. The casino and beer are top notch!!! Oh and, Let's Go NO!!

Well you see Joe, my point is that, having grown up watching the Expos playing against teams like the Mets, the Phillies, the Pirates and the Cubs in what was the former East Division, I couldn't imagine seeing any of these teams disappear and it would be a shame if it would, or for any other team that I vouched for when I was young, may it be only because I loved their uniforms and colors: the Astros, the Cards, the Orioles, etc.... (AND I HAD A PHILLIES CAP AS WELL IN MY COLLECTION, YES SIR! As a matter of fact, Mike Schmidt and Steve Carlton were among my favorite players).

So, my point is: I don't understand why you want the Expos to disappear. I don't understand what it would bring you. I may be naive, but I expect people to want to keep the Expos the way I want to keep the other teams I mentionned.

A Phillies-Expos game always looked nice on the field.

S.

Originally posted by Jeff White Actually Sebsy...I've got the clincher...after such a good World Series, and seeing as how every team is in dire need of the latest, greatest stadium, and only about 4 teams really have that kind of money to be throwing around. That none of them seem to have the good sense to say, hell no I'm not going to pay you 25 million dollars a year to play shortstop, this is a kids game, and you are damn lucky to be getting paid anything to do so...oops...ranting on a bit now eh? What I'm getting at, is why don't we just get rid of Major League Baseball and make all those yahoos get some real jobs? Couldn't you just see Randy Johnson bagging groceries (yes, some grocers actually pay people to do that!), or maybe Pedro Martinez serving up slurpees at 7-11?

hahahahahaha

That's the sad thing about it! A lot of these guys would have these types of jobs based on their intellect if it wasn't for their talent pitching, catching and hitting a damn ball. How ridiculous is that? Some people are labelling this as being part of the American Dream. Well, if that's what the american dream has become, no wonder why so many things went wrong lately.

But about your suggestion of getting rid of MLB, you are absolutely right and something along these lines might happen in the forseable future: a parallel professionnal league might pop up eventually, with a game caliber which would be between Major League Baseball and AAA.

Many cities like Charlotte, Washington, Vancouver, Jersey City and Portland might be interested in such alternative, and the cities who would see their teams contracted would certainly be interested in joining as well. You could add to that list Montreal, Tampa Bay, Miami, Oakland and Minneapolis/St.Paul, and maybe eventually Toronto, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. We're starting to have an interesting core here. It might even be possible to add a team or two in Mexico, and make a real "North American Baseball League" (NABL)

This league could offer very competitive salaries by installing a 100% revenue sharing system and a 40 million$ salary cap for each team. You could probably steal several good players to MLB by doing so, because a lot of them might get better deals in the NABL. 40 million divided by 25 players = 1.6 million average salary. If you give the players better minimal salaries to start with (let's say 600,000$ compared to MLB's 200 000$ right now), a lot of young talented player might choose to start their career in this league.

Something similar worked back in the 80s football with the USFL, which happened to be a threat to the NFL at some point. It eventually disappeared, but it forced the NFL to clean their house!

What do you think?

Seb.

P.S. The Rangers would be so much better if they had 5 very good players paid 5 million each instead of just one excellent player paid 25 million. Think of how well your team would have done with three stud pitchers good enough to be paid 5 million a year, one good closer, and one good additionnal hitter. Texas would have been a contender...

Uh.. let's say this is way off-topic but still...

If the Expos goes, it will be because of 2 things... or maybe 3...

1. Canadian $$.. now at 63 cents for 1 US$.. that can't help much.

2. The 1994 strike, when the Expos were FINALLY going somewhere.. I must say, the attendance were 35000 in average that year.. the damn strike is what started everything.. people got sick millionaires went on strike and left us in the dirt when we had the best team in baseball, and because of that, the ownership gave away big salaries.

3. Fire sales done by the ownership.. instead of risking it and going for it on the next year, they simply removed 4 of the best players of the team after the strike. If it was my money, I would have done the same, but this is totally what destroyed everything.

And maybe a 4th one..

4. The new ownership.. some New-Yorker who has a problem understanding the cultural things here.. he started by removing the team from TV for a whole year, then started to do very bad trades.. what can you do about that..!

It's sad to say, but Montréal is a city where people get interested in sports either if it's an happening, or if you have a winning team.. except for ice hockey of course.. the stadium is not really the cause, but having a new one downtown would have helped a lot, because the location of the 1976 Olympic stadium is not exactly near anything.. but still, they wanted a real baseball field with grass.. here in Montréal, I doubt that would be doable in April.. there is still snow!

It's trully stupid, but what can you do.. one day there will be an elite league with only 6 teams, and a minor circuit with all the other teams.

I think it's time we think about the European system, with teams that can move from one league to another on performance level... because nobody can compete with the Yankees, the Braves, the Dodgers, etc..

Originally posted by brian geoghagan The beauty of Safeco Field does enhance the pleasure of watching a major league game here in Seattle but the GM of the Mariners has made some decisions that were strictly bottom line (R.Johnson, Griffey, Rodriguez). Fans here were mad as hell but our lineup this year (no superstars!) did have a magical season. Before the year began NOONE thought the Mariners would make the playoffs. Even with Ichiro, the prospects of making the playoffs next year look dim. I think the last to enter the League should be the first to go. However, with a COCKSUCKING BUSH in Florida and the White House, I Doubt either Florida team gets the axe. Wait for a professional team to show up in DC in the next few years. Sometimes I hate my country as much as Martin Gray hates his. Hey Martin, I'll trade places with you if you think living in Britain is worse than America. Home of the Free My Ass. Home of the Priviledged Class is closer to the truth.Sorry for being unfair to your beloved Expos Seb. I used to watch them in the 80's when they had Rose (briefly), Carter, Raines etc...What drug problems plagued the clubhouse?I don't think being Canadian or speaking French will have anything to do with the decision...Do You?

I fully agree with what you said about the Bush Brothers, cousins, or whatever. Jeb is an election stealer anyway. And YES, I wouldn't be surprised either if one franchise would be relocated in Washington!

About the drug problems: half of the Expos players were using cocaine between 1979-1982. The most famous for this was Ellis Valentine, which would often be totally froze up during games. Another one of these was the (then) very young Tim Raines, who publicly admitted his drug problem at the time and got rid of it very quickly. But the problem overall was serious to the point that it ruined the club's performances on the field during these years. Any "expert" who was following baseball at the time would tell you that if it weren't of these drug addictions, the Expos would maybe have three World Series titles today, only for that period of time.

As for the third element in your message: no, I don't actually think that the decision will be based on the fact that we are Canadians or french-speaking, but what I was trying to say when I mentionned that was that when it comes to talk of contraction, there is suddenly a strong movement of "Expos bashing" and "Montreal bashing" coming from a lot of american medias, and YES, I do think that this has to do, in a very hypocrit way, with the fact that we're Canadians and french-speaking. Some people are very narrow-minded, you know. Also, canadian teams are less risky to boot off because they are not protected by the U.S.A.'s anti-monopoly law and does not constitute a political threat for Major League Baseball (you won't find a governor or U.S. representative or senator who will take action on the Expos' behalf at the Congress and attack the anti-monopolistic exemption that MLB currently benefits).

Ah, I'm really sick about this situation.

I really wish baseball would be played with each team having the same payroll, and with the fans of each cities having true and solid hopes of seeing their home team win the pennant each year. That's the essence of sport. That WAS the essence of baseball.

S.

Originally posted by Green Here's another voice for keeping the Expos in Montreal. MLB has gone downhill since there has been no 'permanent'commissioner a la Bowie Kuhn. Bud Selig does not inspire me to believe that this contraction problem will be solved with anything less than antagnostic behavior from both the management side as well as the players union as it looks like there could be quite a fit as the union tries to save some jobs. Great list of reasons Seb as to the fate of suffering Expos fans over the years. It would be sad in the opinion of a few people I know if there were no more baseball in Montreal. Heck, since they were the first non-U.S. city to have a MLB team, one might think that might impress those execs that are trying to sell baseball to non-Americans, but it unfortunately seems that MLB management has decided that its time in Quebec is over.Certainly the problems of the Expos can be fixed as witnessed by the rise of the Indians and Braves over the last decade, but it's going to have to take some sympathetic ownership. For example, the Twins are often listed as one of the two teams who should "go". Would they even be considered at this point if they hadn't faltered down the stretch, and they had won their divison? The reports I've read on them indicates that their owner is more concerned with making a ton of money on his investment than in baseball, and is looking for the first way out of the game. Also how convenient that Minnesota is located next to Wisconsin, where Bud Selig's team is at. Is he trying to become the regional franchise of the upper Midwest? The bottom line is that there are some very funny politics going on in this story. BTW, also gotta agree with you on Henry Rodriguez. He was one of my faves when he played in Single A rookie ball in Salem after being signed by the Dodgers. Great person indeed.

Green, my friend, I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you wrote. I, too, think that a real and INDEPENDANT baseball commissioner has bee lacking tremendously to this industry, and Bud Selig is only the owner's puppet. He doesn't do what his job is supposed to push him to do: work in the best interest of baseball.

Now it's all a matter of MONEY, GREED, and POLITICS.

And you are absolutely right about the Brewers having EVERYTHING TO WIN with the dissolution of the Minnesota Twins franchise. Of course, Selig will say he's not in any sort of conflict of interests since the shares he owns in the Brewers franchise have been put in-trust. What a truck of bullshit! His DAUGHTER is now owner of the team officially. Yeepie...

This is where North America stands in the year 2001. A world deprived of any honesty or sense of honor -- a world filled with greed.

S.