Please release me! :singer:

Now the petition worked for the sessions I reckon we should petition for a CD of unreleased material!

Any suggestions on content?

My obvious inclusions would be Homage and Let's Go (org vocal)

The "Mullet Tapes" (sessions recorded by Hooky's mullet in 1986 as a possible solo album...for Hooky's mullet, not him) :p

Seriously, though, I guess the gigs that Hook supposedly has stashed away (if they're not widely distributed on the bootleg circuit alread) would be great

Yes, that 80-min. long version of IALP that Hooky is rumored to have stashed away would be nice.

What unreleased material?

Anyone who thinks there is a vast vault of gems waiting to be unleashed is going to be sorely disappointed.

There will be unreleased rough versions of songs, early demos, sketches of unreleased songs that have never made it onto bootlegs but Mr Perfectionist Barney will not allow us to hear them as he has deemed them unworthy of a public airing.

This from the guy who thought Slow Jam was OK to release but continually blocks the real version of Ceremony, leaving us with that vapid, lifeless thing that's on Substance. I don't have much faith in his judgement on what's fit to hear.

We can only try and hope. The original Ceremony yes that would be nice. I feel that that really was missing from Retro afterall we did get the original Temptation and Confusion there.

I dod't know how much unreleased stuff there is left now after the bonous disc came out, but surely there must be more. Come on Barney etc we here will appreciate it, so please release it.

Perhaps some of you UK NOOLers could camp outside the Lndon Records office with placards and form a picket line demanding 'PLEASE RELEASE ME'. :D

And what on our boards in the picket? Pictures of Gillian?

Originally posted by Slippy And what on our boards in the picket? Pictures of Gillian?

Would that be "full release"? :p

Well Al could bring his Ceremony flag along. :)

Originally posted by Jamie Fairlie This from the guy who thought Slow Jam was OK to release but continually blocks the real version of Ceremony, leaving us with that vapid, lifeless thing that's on Substance. I don't have much faith in his judgement on what's fit to hear.

i understand the original version of Ceremony is favored by some but to call the re-recorded version on the cream and white 12" and substance Vapid and Lifeless is unfair and a bit ridiuculous. That version is amazing and even gets me going more than the original version. I love the 7" and original 12" versions but you've got to be kidding if you think the Substance version sucks. Why even bother with New Order if you don't like one of their best tunes? Ceremony rocks no matter how you slice it, without Gillian and a touch slower or with Gillian in all it's glittering glory it's a fucking ace tune.

how about a petition for some better things, like digging into their backcatalogue live (YSF was a start, but MORE MORE MORE), and how about a proper world tour playing smaller venues?

Thing is, I ain't bothered about hearing 'rough' or 'demo' versions, and can't blame Barney (or whoever is responsible for deciding what gets released) for wanting to keep any existing tapes of these locked away. Think about the 'Get Ready' rough mix CD-R: all well and good to produce these as a means of giving the record label an idea of what is going on in the studio when an album is due, but other than having a novelty value of being slightly longer or having different volume levels, they're basically the same versions we already have.

Put it this way: you're in a band, a producer or remixer, and are halfway through finishing a track, and have put together a 'rough mix' for others in the band to hear how you're getting on (as I often have). You'd not want that "imperfect" version of a work in progress getting released (either as a pre-release bootleg, or in the future as part of a retrospective collection) unless it was a marked difference from how it eventually ended up sounding (see 'Elegia (Full Version)').

The quality of old practice sessions/live gigs/demos is bound to be patchy, and no amount or digital remastering will make up for that. I'm keener to see nice, lovingly restored digital versions of all the vinyl that has never been released on CD before - including the original 'Ceremony'.

If it's been out officially in the past, there's no reason not to restore the master tapes and bring out a decent collection of the rarities we've all paid far too much for on Ebay. Most of us have put together our own CD-R collections of the vinyl tracks (and my copies have bloody good sound quality, thanks to the decent turntables and processors I have in my home studio), but it's still never going to be as good as digitally remastered versions from the studio master tapes, is it?

That's all I'm really wishing for - plus any 'master quality' songs or alternate mixes/edits that may have not been released (much in the same way that the Pet Shop Boys decided which tracks to feature on the 'Further Listening' discs of their remastered albums a couple of years ago). The record label need not worry about the production/packaging costs - remastering will be a darn site cheaper than recording new material with producers/studios/engineers et al. It doesn't need to be an over elaborate package either - much of the vinyl could probably fit onto a two or three CD compilation, rather than a big, expensive-to-maufacture box set. We'd probably not end up with an exhaustive collection of every vinyl track, but they could certainly get all the important tracks on there (Seven Inch versions and B-Sides, promo edits, original 'Ceremony', etc.)

Hell, I finish my sound recording degree in May - someone talk London Records into hiring me to go through the archives and do it all for them!

Have I made my case?

Andy.

If they just release the cover version of "you suffer" by Napalm Death, i'll be happy.

Who said theres nothing left to release? Theres loads of stuff not offically available on CD. At least another box-sets worth.

Depends what is meant by "unreleased material"?

I assume it to mean something we've never heard before. Or stuff that hasn't made it onto any official release yet. In either case, you're not looking at a very large list.

But if it means stuff previously available but not yet on CD, then yes, there is plenty out there.

I've said it before, but why stop now:

We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.

Then they could fleece us with remastered albums, albums in card sleeves, 2CD deluxe editions featuring an album's worth of live/demo stuff...anything. I promise I'll buy the fucking LOT, if they just do the singles boxes.

Originally posted by David Gladwin I've said it before, but why stop now:We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.Then they could fleece us with remastered albums, albums in card sleeves, 2CD deluxe editions featuring an album's worth of live/demo stuff...anything. I promise I'll buy the fucking LOT, if they just do the singles boxes.

Erm, this might sound totally nuts but do you go to sheffield hallam uni?

Originally posted by David Gladwin I've said it before, but why stop now:We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.

That's just pointless, as then you'd have the 'Confusion', 'Blue Monday' and many recent singles spanning more than one disc EACH! That would be bloody mind-numblingly dull - ever played that 'Rest of' Blue Monday bonus disc in one sitting?

It's mainly us serious collectors interested in the singles-boxset type thing, and 'serious' collectors will already have all the single releases already widely available on CD - and many of the compilation remixes. I'd just go for the rare CD promo edits/mixes and all the vinyl. What with a combination of 'Retro'/'The Best Of'/'Substance', much of the old 12" vinyl is already available on CD - we just need a boxed set to compile what's not been remastered and rereleased into a coherent tracklist that a casual fan can also appreciate (i.e. the sort of fan that won't mind/care/notice which edit/version of the track they are listening to).

I did a my own alternative 'Retro' CD-R with this in mind myself a few months ago (you all probably read my tracklisting for it) that I occasionally play on my discman when I want to hear the old vinyl in as good a digital format as I can get it - that's the sort of thing that would work, rather than 25 mixes of 'Confusion'!

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography > Originally posted by David Gladwin> I've said it before, but why stop now:> > We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.

That's just pointless, as then you'd have the 'Confusion', 'Blue Monday' and many recent singles spanning more than one disc EACH! That would be bloody mind-numblingly dull - ever played that 'Rest of' Blue Monday bonus disc in one sitting?

It's mainly us serious collectors interested in the singles-boxset type thing, and 'serious' collectors will already have all the single releases already widely available on CD - and many of the compilation remixes. I'd just go for the rare CD promo edits/mixes and all the vinyl. What with a combination of 'Retro'/'The Best Of'/'Substance', much of the old 12" vinyl is already available on CD - we just need a boxed set to compile what's not been remastered and rereleased into a coherent tracklist that a casual fan can also appreciate (i.e. the sort of fan that won't mind/care/notice which edit/version of the track they are listening to).

I did a my own alternative 'Retro' CD-R with this in mind myself a few months ago (you all probably read my tracklisting for it) that I occasionally play on my discman when I want to hear the old vinyl in as good a digital format as I can get it - that's the sort of thing that would work, rather than 25 mixes of 'Confusion'!

Andy

But the reason that I mentioned boxes in the plural was in the hope that one would cover just the Factory period, for the sake of us old hands, after all these years.

I accept that the later singles were widely available on CD, and indeed would contend that the remix-frenzy in the post-Factory period didn't enhance the music.

But I wouldn't want to shove post-Factory fans out of the campaign wagon - we need to stick together if we're to make ourselves heard.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino > Originally posted by David Gladwin> I've said it before, but why stop now:> > We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.> > Then they could fleece us with remastered albums, albums in card sleeves, 2CD deluxe editions featuring an album's worth of live/demo stuff...anything. I promise I'll buy the fucking LOT, if they just do the singles boxes.

Erm, this might sound totally nuts but do you go to sheffield hallam uni?

No. Sorry!

OK, my take on the whole 'why release a demo when they've worked long & hard to produce a polished complete version' is that New Order are a unique band in this respect. Look at the Peel sessions, by & large every track on that is better than the recorded version, also 'Too Late' is one of favourite tracks which would never have seen the light of day as a 'polished' version as it was abandoned after the Peel session (the '82 set were effectively demos recorded by NO and sent to the BBC).

All the live versions of Brotherhood tracks were better than the recorded versions so there's a fair chance demos from that era wll have more spirit in them that the album versions. I often feel that throughout their career the polishing process had robbed a lot of their songs of the magic that makes them special. In fact, Barney seems to almost consider the original Ceremony as a demo now - an 'inferior' rough guide version to be replaced by the more polished later version (and yes I do consider that to be vapid & lifeless - the original is like a different song, I don't consider the later version to be 'Ceremony' at all, it has none of the qualities that make the song what it should be)

My bet is there are at least a CD's worth of good quality demos that are better than the recorded version. Add in unreleased tracks alongs the same lines as the Salvation material, Too Late, Homage, etc - each album will have generated songs & ideas that never made it onto official releases.

I'd agree with that - a "companion volume" of related tracks for each album might be a nice idea, if there's enough to go at in each case.

But it would be nice to see the original material available again, first.

Originally posted by David Gladwin > Originally posted by Major Tarantino > Originally posted by David Gladwin> I've said it before, but why stop now:> > We need singles box sets, featuring all versions/mixes/edits of all singles and b-sides, ideally with videos and related stuff (mixes from compilations, etc) as well.> > Then they could fleece us with remastered albums, albums in card sleeves, 2CD deluxe editions featuring an album's worth of live/demo stuff...anything. I promise I'll buy the fucking LOT, if they just do the singles boxes.

Erm, this might sound totally nuts but do you go to sheffield hallam uni?

No. Sorry!

There is a bloke in my tutorial group called David Gladwin

While we're starting petitions, we might as well get one going to clone Ian using DNA taken from spent tissues in Debbie's attic and carpet samples from 77 Barton Street. Joy Division rides again! :p

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope While we're starting petitions, we might as well get one going to clone Ian using DNA taken from spent tissues in Debbie's attic and carpet samples from 77 Barton Street. Joy Division rides again! :p

That was in poor taste

signed, Howard Stern :p

I think a priority would be to release the albums in CD form with the original artwork intact, have you looked at the travesty that is the london reissues, unknown pleasures fanastic minimalist sleeve covered in barcodes and london records bullshit....so very far from the unique original statement. if it's not re-stated sometime soon it will be lost to future generations

Originally posted by johnny james unknown pleasures fanastic minimalist sleeve covered in barcodes and london records bullshit....so very far from the unique original statement. if it's not re-stated sometime soon it will be lost to future generations

Also, the dying star image takes up the entire front of the bleedin' sleeve, the LP version where it was comparatively small is far nicer.