there a discussion about this at JDCENTRAL http://members.aol.com/lwtua/joydiv.htm
what do NOOL'S think??
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Should there be an Ian Curtis Statue In Manchester
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I think it's a terrible idea and can't see the justification whatsoever.
The very people who would clamour for a statue of Curtis in the first instance are also the very people who would disown such a monolith the second it was born whinging about the commericialism of 'their' band, etc.
It's a ridiculous sentiment and will probably only be championed by angst-ridden teenagers from far-flung shores, rather than, say, 40-something Mancs who actually remember the Curtis era.
Reality bites.
i read this idea came from Peter Saville, now that he´s got a job for the city of Manchester. true? 
Straw Poll taken from a selection of forty somethin Mancs and Mrs garymac representing the voice of Wigan .
Why ? April first yesterday wannit ? it'll end up full of pigeon shit anyway why ? and representing Wigan I hope they've asked his wife and daughter. For myself I'd rather have one of Anthony Burgess if any at all, or something better for Alan Turing
Originally posted by Michael Chandler Ian Would be rolling over in his grave if he had an inkling of this idea.
I'm not so sure of that.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!
Lets be honest, as much as we think he's great, he was only a singer, and a pretty Fooked up one at that. And JD are hardly manchesters biggest ever band.
I find it disgraceful that people such as Musicians and Sport players are reffered to as heroes and have proposal for statues and the like. Its not like they discovered a cure for a disease or defended the country etc etc
(slight disclaimer: in terms of sporting statues, i am referring to public places, i.e town centers, not football grounds)
NO because he is NOT known by the majority of people in this region,he was only in a band and it also goes against the whole punk/attitude for the reason the band formed in the first place.They would be better making a statue if a dead DRUG DEALER cos this would make a better role model for people to REBEL against on MAYDAY riots.I don't want to see IAN with a GRASS WIG being shown on TV like they did with SIR WISTON CHURCHILL.Sometimes life is very funny and sometimes rather pathetic,this whole idea falls into the second catergory. ROCKET MICK :D
Originally posted by Andy > Originally posted by Michael Chandler> Ian Would be rolling over in his grave if he had an inkling of this idea.
I'm not so sure of that.
neither am I - on reading Deborah Curtis's book, he did seem to have aspirations of superstardom....its all academic anyway.....Statue is a pretty crass idea.
a dead drug dealer would be a better role model than winston churchill. anyone whos read a smitten of history will realise that (check, for instance, pre war winston).im not a fan of crusties (espically cider smelling british crusties), but that churchill grass mohawk was top drawer! 
i dont know about ian curtis statue. only if his family , and the other 3 were for it.
not being from mcr , my opinion would be worthless anyway.
Its kinda funny that people are discussion about staute of Ian Curtis....whats the point...i mean hes great and all but...he just was a musican? i dont think he would want one either...
With the money that would be used for such a ridiculous monument, pass out free copies of Closer, Unknown Pleasures and Still to the Manc public.
I would put money to give him a better tombstone rather than a statue... he diserves better than that one!!
and THAT Saville could do!
I think I can understand why it would be fair for Manchester to dedicate a statue to one of his greatest artists, every city has some. The problem with Ian it's too damn soon, with Joy Division still around as New Order, and the most of the people who were there too... maybe in some decades, a future generation will want to make that statue and it'll be alright, but now it's too soon.
Plus, a statue of somebody who released 2 albums? what's next? a Kurt Cobain statue in Seattle?
C'mon, why would Ian diserves it more than the rest of the band?
Originally posted by Spotnick Plus, a statue of somebody who released 2 albums? what's next? a Kurt Cobain statue in Seattle?C'mon, why would Ian diserves it more than the rest of the band?
Give it time...
Yeah, exactly! Just as I say, wait like 50 years and when everyone's dead make a statue of Joy Division with Gillian! :)
Originally posted by Clockwork C a dead drug dealer would be a better role model than winston churchill. anyone whos read a smitten of history will realise that (check, for instance, pre war winston).im not a fan of crusties (espically cider smelling british crusties), but that churchill grass mohawk was top drawer!
Perhaps you miss my point.I am NOT defending WINSTON although without him i would not be FREE now.What i am saying is that the SO CALLED do good students and "ANARCHIST" achieve FCUK all.And i don't want a statue of IAN with a WIG,GREEN or not,NO WIG,NO HAIR,NO STATUE,NO FUN.If you want to achieve ANYTHING in life...do it your bloody self and relay on NO one else.That way if you succeed you can be HAPPY.Hiding behind a bunch of tossers who are SCARED without their mates is a COMPLETE WASTE.I know cos i have been there but now i have learnt to stand up for MYSELF.;)
What for? So drunken dickheads can piss against his leg every friday? Put one up of AHW instead...
Based on my own experience of seeing statues used as lavatories for the public at large (and birds in particular) I would hate to see what became of an Ian statue. Another vote for no, though it is a nice gesture 
Originally posted by Rocket Mick > Originally posted by Clockwork C> a dead drug dealer would be a better role model than winston churchill. anyone whos read a smitten of history will realise that (check, for instance, pre war winston).im not a fan of crusties (espically cider smelling british crusties), but that churchill grass mohawk was top drawer!
Perhaps you miss my point.I am NOT defending WINSTON although without him i would not be FREE now.What i am saying is that the SO CALLED do good students and "ANARCHIST" achieve FCUK all.And i don't want a statue of IAN with a WIG,GREEN or not,NO WIG,NO HAIR,NO STATUE,NO FUN.If you want to achieve ANYTHING in life...do it your bloody self and relay on NO one else.That way if you succeed you can be HAPPY.Hiding behind a bunch of tossers who are SCARED without their mates is a COMPLETE WASTE.I know cos i have been there but now i have learnt to stand up for MYSELF.;)
erm, without the 20 odd million dead russian pesants we wouldnt be "free" from nazism,or all the british troops (more than 1/4 of a million).
winston lead his state well through the war, but a bit of backround on him should lead any sane reasonable person to the conclusion that he was a grade a scumbag.
3 words (for a start): Black and tans
follow that up with a reading up on his backround as a "democrat" prior to the realisation that the war wouldnt be won without a vaild reason for the proles to head off and die whilst winston talked tough and smoked cohibas.
anyhow, i understand your point on ian. he shouldnt have a statue after him cause he commited suicide?
i wouldnt be for a statue either, but for slightly different reasons
sorry for being a nark, its late, its friday, and im working
:(
Again you miss my point which is to TRUST no one but yourself.NEVER do anything that someone else tells you to because it would be good.ALL WAR IS WRONG....all scumbags get someone else to fight.I know all about CHURCHILL and bombing the KURDS in the 1920's to which he was involved.The fact is that the longer you live the more you REALIZE that we are ALL being taken for a ride whilst those in power make a KILLING.FCUK EM all as my dad used to say but see i can't even TRUST him.That is what he REALLY taught me.GEDDIT.....no offence ,it is just that i am not known as MAD MICK for nothing.Enjoy life but don't screw up.....i nearly did but am learning.If you read about all the crap what has been done in the name of FREEDOM then IAN's way out would seem SENSIBLE.We all must learn to live with ourselves.But sometimes we can enjoy the odd bit of good music.Have you ever heard of the band
NEW ORDER....formed from the ashes of JOY DIVISION....heard they were all NAZIS though but i doubt it...DO YOU!
:D;):p
You all miss one point - a statue would be made by Peter Saville ( ), so it won't be the like of the Statue Of Liberty. I guess it would be something as extraordinary as Ian Curtis was. Maybe it would be made in a glass cube on the roof of a buliding in the centre of Manchester, or it would be a barelief...
Someone has said here that each city has its own heroes. So poets and artists are not heroes of their own hometowns? That's not supposed to be that way. I don't know any other famous people of Manchester (with the little exception of Friedrich Engels who resided and had factories there), so let Curtis be one. It's worth being proud of what Joy Division made in terms of music. In New York City there would be no talks about it - that is so simple.
The point is though unless you are a music lover from that era IAN is no more famous (or less so) than BET LYNCH of CORRIE(Coronation ST).Indeed she was very famous for being a TV star in a SOAP OPERA that is made in MANCHESTER.But to her fans she is real and from MANCHESTER.Although i am a real big fan of JOY DIVISION i doubt many people around here(20 miles from MANCHESTER) have ever heard the name IAN CURTIS.They may know the odd song.But would IAN or his family want such a reminder if his life in view of the way he left THIS MORTAL COIL.Beggars belief in my mind.But each to their own.SAVILLE should just leave a few of his covers plastered about on billboards ....maybe CLOSER and UNKNOWN PLEASURES then i could go along and admire them whilst remembering the good old days.
REGARDS Rocket Mick
I think a statue on the lines of a sort of 3d mural, depicting ALL the great and good of mancfester's tuneful, would be an infinitetly better idea, Manchester has contributed so much to music, that it would not be fair to single Ian out for such treatment. For one thing, it could be argued that in terms of "impact on music the world over" NO are far more important than JD. And for another, as has already been mentioned, they were PUNKS, punks don't do civic recognition. Someone mentioned Turing, he should have a pretty serious monument. I frequent a lot of newsgroups that are plagued by the dumber end of the citizenry of the US, the sort of people who are obsessed with calling everyone and everything gay/faggot etc. HOW MUCH do I enjoy telling them that the machine they are using to deseminate their dim-witted hatred was created by a card carrying chutney ferret. Doesn't seem to worry them tho, as with all stupid Americans[1] they think they invented the computer, the jet engine, the satellite etc.
Hmmm I seem to be wandering, anyway, you get the picture.
[1]that's as in "all Americans who are stupid" as opposed to "all Americans are stupid"
how many people in dublin have read oscar wilde or jimmy joyce?
i dont see the "he isnt famous" point, i do however see it as nice cementing over of recent history, and proberbally a bit painful for friends / family.
plus, it just seem unfitting. i dont know why.
Originally posted by Clockwork C how many people in dublin have read oscar wilde or jimmy joyce?i dont see the "he isnt famous" point, i do however see it as nice cementing over of recent history, and proberbally a bit painful for friends / family.plus, it just seem unfitting. i dont know why.
Jimmy scares me shitless; never was there a book I wanted to stop reading more than Portrait of an Artist As a Young Man, but Heart of Darkness comes close to my hatred of James Joyce
well i say get a statue up but if only the rest of em get one as well,ie:steve,barney,hooky and gillian and have em dotted around manchester,and make em interactive ie: chuck ten bob in and you get a blast of a track ect.
or ian does a flailing dance
,barney falls over,hooky chucks something at you steve goes all shy and hides behind his kit and gillian drops another bum note.
Originally posted by mike powell well i say get a statue up but if only the rest of em get one as well,ie:steve,barney,hooky and gillian and have em dotted around manchester,and make em interactive ie: chuck ten bob in and you get a blast of a track ect.or ian does a flailing dance
The new anamatronic attraction at EuroDisneyland?
Originally posted by Clockwork C how many people in dublin have read oscar wilde or jimmy joyce? i dont see the "he isnt famous" point,
*I agree, here in Parma it's full of statues of artistically important people which aren't really known except for just being on those pedestals. Then once in a while there's a show at the museum and people go sayin' "Oh, he's that bloke of that statue in that square", but they know nothing about him before going. It's a good way to teach people about artists which were more important than famous, in true Tony Wilson spirit ("I want the most important bands, not the most famous")... it's just that those artists lived centuries ago, while for Ian it's too soon right now...
Originally posted by Razed In A New Division Of Agony I'd lean towards yes honestly. But A definate yes for a better gravestone.
Erm... why?
a mosiac of new order / joy division at afflecks palace would be cool. after all mr.wilson features in one of them. tony being in one of the originals and steve coogan as tony in the 20th anniversary one.
Originally posted by facseven How about a Ian Pinata hanging from town square?
What kind of candy do you suppose would come out of the pinata?
Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by facseven> How about a Ian Pinata hanging from town square?
What kind of candy do you suppose would come out of the pinata?
Skittles! Ian seemed like a Skittles type of guy.
What about a statue of Ian in Macclesfield, that way every ones a winner, you get a statue, for those who want one, but not in Manchester. Perhaps Manchester can have a statue of Oswald Mosley!!
Originally posted by Dario Gradi MBE What about a statue of Ian in Macclesfield, that way every ones a winner, you get a statue, for those who want one, but not in Manchester. Perhaps Manchester can have a statue of Oswald Mosley!!
They already have a street named after him [Mosley, not Curtis], that's enough!.
The whole memorial idea is weak. For the great songs IC contributed to, amongst a wider audience his name is more closely linked to his suicide than anything else, sad but true. That's not a positive reason for a permanent reminder.
As a few on here have identified, the rest of the band have contributed far more both musically and reputationally to the city of Manchester. Is ICs 2 year career really worth more than Barney, Hooky and Steve's 25 years??.
There must be more suitable Mancunian candidates [sorry] for this kind of thing.....L S Lowry, Alan Turing, Alex Staszko, add your own names.
Kick over the statues.
Originally posted by Dario Gradi MBE What about a statue of Ian in Macclesfield, that way every ones a winner, you get a statue, for those who want one, but not in Manchester. Perhaps Manchester can have a statue of Oswald Mosley!!
Or indeed his son, young Maxwell Mosely, head of the FIA, and responsible for the current state of Formula 1, the way he hands the rules out, you'd think he subscribed to papa's views. :-)
