Substance by Joy Division or New Order? — Forum Archive

10 Apr 2004, 23:39

Which do you believe to be the greatest Substance, Joy Division 1977-1980 or New Order 1987?

I love both, I am actually listening to Substance by Joy Division right now. But Substance by New Order is my favorite of the two. While 1977-1980 has great tracks such as Digital, Transmission, She's Lost Control, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Atmosphere; almost nothing can beat the opening four tracks of 1987, being Ceremony, Everything's Gone Green, Temptation, and Blue Monday. I think that since both are compilations, you have to judge them by the individual songs rather then as an album, where you should judge it as a whole. And I think that 1987 has more great songs than 1977-1980. I think that It is hard to compare the two though, each are quite different from eachother. Both are just amazing.

11 Apr 2004, 04:51

New Order Substance. Without a doubt.

11 Apr 2004, 05:28

Joy Division

11 Apr 2004, 05:40

joy division :smoking:

11 Apr 2004, 08:57

Joy Division - much as I like the New Order Substance there's nothing on it that comes close to Dead Souls, Atmosphere or LWTUA...and it's got the wrong version of Ceremony on it too!

11 Apr 2004, 10:37

well, it's easy for me...new order's...

guess I am in the minority then...

11 Apr 2004, 11:17

NEW ORDER

11 Apr 2004, 11:28

Joy Division, though to be purely technical, I prefer the CD version, with 7 extra tracks like No Love Lost and Novelty, to the vinyl, which only features the first ten that's on the CD.

11 Apr 2004, 11:40

New Order's Substance is badly flawed! I will have to go with Joy Division's (unless you count the cassette of New order's!)

11 Apr 2004, 12:48

i like both. JD is essential, as is NO.

11 Apr 2004, 14:42

New Order's - covers a greater timespan and offers far more variation. You can literally listen to the band grow.

11 Apr 2004, 14:44

Originally posted by Philip Collins Joy Division - much as I like the New Order Substance there's nothing on it that comes close to Dead Souls, Atmosphere or LWTUA...and it's got the wrong version of Ceremony on it too!

Did you go yesterday, Philip? I was in the away end with a couple of lads who've had mentions here. Bit noisy weren't they - if I'd have looked away when you lot scored I don't think I'd have realised you'd gone in front cos the noise didn't abate one iota when Pompey went behind. They didn't even break rhythm!

11 Apr 2004, 14:52

Definitiv Joy Division. :love2:

11 Apr 2004, 16:56

Well, New Order's Substance is what made me a fan. It simply contains my three favourite songs ever, in their best versions: Blue Monday, Perfect Kiss and True Faith. Nothing can't beat it. And by the way there are a lot of their best songs too, from Everything's Gone Green to Procession if you count the CD version. No album can be as great as their collection of singles. While I think the side projects often didn't release their best songs as singles (Tighten Up by Electronic, Kashemere by Monaco, Weird Drum Woman by the Other two are just examples), I think New Order almost always made the right choices (with notable exceptions like Vanishing Point). Joy Division's Substance is alright, but I much prefer Permanent, more complete...

11 Apr 2004, 20:56

New Order

11 Apr 2004, 21:55

The trouble with New Orders Substance is the weak,piss poor version of Ceremony.Now if theyd put the other version on what a cracking stomping opener it would have made.Sometimes think also that they should have stuck to the originals of Confusion and Temptation.

12 Apr 2004, 06:15

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Philip Collins> Joy Division - much as I like the New Order Substance there's nothing on it that comes close to Dead Souls, Atmosphere or LWTUA...and it's got the wrong version of Ceremony on it too!

Did you go yesterday, Philip? I was in the away end with a couple of lads who've had mentions here. Bit noisy weren't they - if I'd have looked away when you lot scored I don't think I'd have realised you'd gone in front cos the noise didn't abate one iota when Pompey went behind. They didn't even break rhythm! Yup, sure did - really impressed with the Pompey support...our last home match was against Villa and they only brought about 2/3 as many people. Less impressed with the Portsmouth team and the fact that they were all over us in the second half shows just how bad we are now that Parker's taken up bench warming at Chelski...

12 Apr 2004, 11:48

J O Y . D I V I S I O N !!!!!!!!!

12 Apr 2004, 16:01

New (fookin) Order :p

12 Apr 2004, 16:03

JD

13 Apr 2004, 07:16

I love the Joy Division Substance, again like me ole fruitcake Green, I prefer the CD cos of the extra tracks. I was never a big fan of Autosuggestion and this to me horribly split the JD vinyl version. The only vinyl that was played more than Technique in my entire collection was Substance. Each side gives you something else. Ceremony E.G.G and Temptation FUCK ME with a broomstick and call me BETTY! Agreed, that the original Ceremony would have been better, but a touch of class in the 87 Temptation. EGG needs nothing added to it - obscure and perverse but fookin magic. Blue Fookin Monday, Da da da da da hey and Thieves see them move on yet more, the monster that was the best electro / disco song ever then onto the Baker inspired Confusion - what a change in direction, again I love the original Confusion, but this version was still a cracker. Thieves saw them doing a Love song, well, not quite a love song but kind of a love song :lol: TPK Subculture and Shellshock, from TPK's orchestral magnificence to a shadier version of Subculture, again it's not a lot of people's favourite version, but it's still a cracking tune. Shellshock is another song that gets murdered a lot but I like it. Then it's State BLT and TF. What a magical ending. Sides 1 and 4 probably got played the most until the CD came out. But this was recently voted one of the best compilations of all-time. A true Journey of Joy (without the division) :D

13 Apr 2004, 07:19

Tough one, this. I suppose I've played the New Order one a few more times than the Joy Division one, primarily because my favourite JD songs aren't on there. I suppose Heart and Soul gets more of an airing than JD Substance (and I never bought Permanent).

Much as I am a JD fan, New Order's gets the vote here.

13 Apr 2004, 08:21

New Order for certain. Didn't really bother with the JD one. Heart & Soul was the better investment.

13 Apr 2004, 11:43

I haven't got JD Substance (I have Permanent and the HeartandSoul box set which has every JD recording available) therefore I can't comment on it. NO Substance is sheer quality. There are (almost) no bad tracks. Again, they are very different types of music, and NO makes me feel happy while JD is just electrifying.

14 Apr 2004, 10:07

I'll have to say the N.O. substance is the superior record. For me, only "thieves..." is a skipper, the rest is brilliant. As was mentioned earlier, you can actually hear the band grow, and change.

I used to love the joy division substance, years ago. Then I was more into listening to the albums. For a long while, "Still" replaced substance for me. Now, disc #2 from heart and soul is my J.D. substance.

15 Apr 2004, 11:24

NO gets more play, but i really like the JD substance, as well. i think new order's substance makes them sound like a predominantly electronic band (especially if this was your only exposure to NO) and doesn't show a whole lot of variety. having said that, the JD substance lacks a number of songs i would love to hear (notably ice age and new dawn fades).

still, NO substance gets my vote as it's the one i listen to the most AND the album that introduced me to new order.