Rarities - do we want/need them?

Originally posted by Mr Discography I know everyone will have slightly different opinions on the various versions and how worthwhile it would be putting them on there, but would you be up for the idea of getting all five Factory studio albums plus Substance remastered and released with an extra disc? Some of that material features on other 'Best Of' collections, but to have them all together would make a nice little remastered package (if it retailed at the no higher a price than that of a single CD album).What does everyone think - assuming the free space on each 'disc 2' was filled up with whatever relevent unreleased stuff they could find of master quality?Andy

If they rereleased one a month like they are doing with the ACR albums I think it would work!

Brilliant Andy. My original gripe was the update of the earlier albums and whilst we know of no other rare tracks available the old 7inch versions converted to an additional cd and MTO & Run 2 added to Technique cd2 etc,etc. Like you said it's hardly worth bothering with the material after Technique. I'd prefer your layout than the Best Of, Rest Of, International & Retro offerings.

If they did this I'd feel nothing short of exploited. Edits my arse!!!

Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead If they did this I'd feel nothing short of exploited. Edits my arse!!!

Then what would you want to see on it? The live material is mostly too poorly recorded (plus we know how most of their songs sound live anyway), and there aren't that many other unreleased songs to feature, by all accounts? Better to have a second disc with what has been vinyl-only up until now, than just the original albums released on their own again? It'd at least be nice to bung a CD into your car hi-fi or discman and get some of the old seven inch versions blasting out at last?

I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone not expecting everything to get released on CD, but hoping for the significant vinly-only stuff remastered. If you're not into the edits and stuff, then just stick with the studio albums - which you presumably already own?

What else is there to put on 'em?

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography > Originally posted by Slippy> Took me ages to read through all that! What about Republic?

Most of the decent mixes are on 'The Rest Of', and the sound quality was pretty good back in 1993 anyway. About the only hard-to-find thing is the New Order mix of 'Vicious Circle'. There'd be no point doing a re-release and bonus CD just for that,when everything else is fairly easy to track down and there were only a couple of B-sides. Same thing naturally applies to 'Get Ready'.

Andy

There are allegedly several different remixes of 'Republic' tracks in existence which have never seen the light of day. Young Offender for one. Not the most tantalising prospect in the world for sure, but I know there are many of us out there who'd pay for a remastered Republic with these lost tracks tacked on.

:\pimp3:

Oh, aye, don't get me wrong, I'd certainly buy a remastered Republic with extra material, but it doesn't seem as vital a purchase when most of its supporting singles were widely released on CD and consisted mostly of remixes most of us have anyway.

Makes you wonder though, if the Sly and Robbie 'Ruined In A Day' mix(es) was(were) deemed fit for release, how bad were the ones that weren't?!

Andy

New mixes of Times Change?

Originally posted by ShugZV© Andy son, you continue to amaze me - 10 out of 10 fer effort me ole portugese man of war. Do you ever get any WORK done though

More than you me ole skiveroonie SHUGZV...having a break from your fag,telephone and coffee breaks?:D

It's the original NOOL rogues' gallery around here with you two trading epithets...!

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by depthcharge There are allegedly several different remixes of 'Republic' tracks in existence which have never seen the light of day. Young Offender for one. Not the most tantalising prospect in the world for sure, but I know there are many of us out there who'd pay for a remastered Republic with these lost tracks tacked on.

And to quote a Warner US employee "there's a good reason why the unreleased remixes are unreleased"...

/TLV

Rare items will always remain rare and collectable, no matter if the songs on them become officially released. Pesonally I want as much of the rare versions as possible, weather these be live, or rare releases, commercially unavailiable versions, or even remixes. Through years of collecting and contacts here I have a fairly good collection except when it comes to live stuff. Ok if everybody has previously rare concerts then they obviously are no longer rare. But, why would anybody want to deprive a fellow fan of listening pleasure.

General unavailability is not an excuse for piracy !

That goes for the live tracks, though I don't know where that would leave "Love Juice".

Slightly different copyright laws regarding studio recordings and live recordings....

Maybe this was true in Italy once upon a time. I don't recall that US law discriminated with respect to the nature of the recording...and with live gigs you deal with not only the publisher, but the particular venue. Not familar with UK law (or arguably anything, since I'm not a legal eagle), but seeing stuff like http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp, which states:

"The Federal Anti-Bootleg Statute {18 USC 2319A} prohibits the unauthorized recording, manufacture, distribution, or trafficking in sound recordings or videos of artists' live musical performances. Violators can be punished with up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 in fines. "

...makes me question whether "slightly different" matters very much, at least under US law.

New Order are not all that commercial crap like Elvis, Pet Shop boys, the Cure, the Beatles, the Beach Boys etc. They're not gonna do those double CD-packages with "bonus gems" and "demos". First it ruins the idea of perfectionist Factory releases and of New Order themselves. Like everyone points out here - is there a real rare stuff? Besides several mixes there's really nothing. Why should we pursue poor 7" mixes released on CD?

Originally posted by The Happy One > General unavailability is not an excuse for piracy !That goes for the live tracks, though I don't know where that would leave "Love Juice".> Slightly different copyright laws regarding studio recordings and live recordings....Maybe this was true in Italy once upon a time. I don't recall that US law discriminated with respect to the nature of the recording...and with live gigs you deal with not only the publisher, but the particular venue. Not familar with UK law (or arguably anything, since I'm not a legal eagle), but seeing stuff like http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp, which states:"The Federal Anti-Bootleg Statute {18 USC 2319A} prohibits the unauthorized recording, manufacture, distribution, or trafficking in sound recordings or videos of artists' live musical performances. Violators can be punished with up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 in fines. "...makes me question whether "slightly different" matters very much, at least under US law.

US law counts for fuck all in this country!

A few things that may be of interest reference bootlegging:

http://btat.wagnerone.com/

http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/Documents/bootlegs/ver4.1/alt-music-bootlegs-faq-ch1.html

http://www.aacp.org.uk/news/archivearticle.html?id=31

Originally posted by LOng Tall Texan They're not gonna do those double CD-packages with "bonus gems" and "demos". First it ruins the idea of perfectionist Factory releases and of New Order themselves.?

What the hell was Disc 5 on Retro then? 'Elegia' full version was a "bonus gem", as was 'Temptation '98', the live 'Perfect Kiss' take, and the 'True Faith' remix. Furthermore, the 'Run Wild' original is a demo of sorts, so they do release things like that - as many bands do when they are well into their careers. More than anything, the addition of a Disc 5 to Retro proves that the stuff we talk of on here highlights a fanbase demand for a product, and influences what London Records decide to release.

Originally posted by LOng Tall Texan Like everyone points out here - is there a real rare stuff? Besides several mixes there's really nothing. Why should we pursue poor 7" mixes released on CD?

Not all the 7" mixes are "poor", and if you're a collector of New Order's material - as I suspect you're not - then you'll have an interest in getting the vinyl Factory releases remastered onto CD. I'd certainly welcome the reissue of the Factory albums with bonus material some time after the next album is released - it'd be a darn site better than another greatest hits compilation of what we already have with the new singles tagged on the end!

This thread is obviously talking about which rare stuff we'd like to see remastered, and that - on the whole - will be the vinyl-only releases. If you're not bothered about getting the old mixes released on CD, then surely you're already happy with just having all the New Order studio albums?

I remain convinced there'd be a demand for this, just as there have been with other artists when releasing similar packages. One reason I've been slowly buying the Pet Shop Boys reissues (despite already owning the original CDs) is that as well as the second disc having some interesting bonus material, Chris Heath's interviews in the generous 36 page booklet are so fascinating. There's one of 'Nightlife' coming out later this year, incidentally.

I'm affraid that New Order are commercial, and it'd be a nice touch if London could get their hands on the early stuff and bring it out again for us to hear. If not, then we'll all have to continue paying expensive prices on Ebay for them, and attempting to make half-decent copies onto CD-R to share with others.

Andy

It would be nice to listen to Senses without the first 1/2 seconds missed off, as is the case on my Movement cd. Are all the Movement cd's like that ?

I've a feeling it's like that on all versions - even the vinyl! Was never sure if it was intentional or a mistake!

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography I've a feeling it's like that on all versions - even the vinyl! Was never sure if it was intentional or a mistake!Andy

My original vinyl bought in '84 has the version intact and as the album ain't that long I wondered why on the cd, it was edited.

A mistake, it seems then! Now you come to mention it, aren't the first few beats missing from 'Truth' on Movement - it seems to jump in a bit into the middle of the first bar of drums. Dunno if that was just on the CD also?

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography A mistake, it seems then! Now you come to mention it, aren't the first few beats missing from 'Truth' on Movement - it seems to jump in a bit into the middle of the first bar of drums. Dunno if that was just on the CD also?Andy

My versions of Truth are ok. The US version I have also has the incomplete Senses on it.

I can't really tell myself. I don't have the vinyl Movement so I can't tell :\ohwell:

US law counts for fuck all in this country!

What an insightful statement.

That leads me to wonder whether it matters where a gig is aired, especially when the Net makes it harder to deal with borders...but the copyright stuff is a great way to kill the joy of discussing RARITIES...

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One > US law counts for fuck all in this country!

What an insightful statement.

That leads me to wonder whether it matters where a gig is aired, especially when the Net makes it harder to deal with borders...but the copyright stuff is a great way to kill the joy of discussing RARITIES...

--Sam

It was to the point :D

Originally posted by Slippy A few things that may be of interest reference bootlegging:

Although not at all related to this topic, here's an interesting link to a story on Yahoo News, http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=562&e=1&u=/ap/20040429/ap_on_hi_te/music_on_a_stick.

/TLV

Originally posted by TLV > Originally posted by Slippy> A few things that may be of interest reference bootlegging:

Although not at all related to this topic, here's an interesting link to a story on Yahoo News, http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=562&e=1&u=/ap/20040429/ap_on_hi_te/music_on_a_stick.

/TLV

Smaler than my MD recorder

Originally posted by Slippy ps. still after the Morel's Pink noise mix of True Faith - the Miami music conference version - EIL want £60!!

I think that the mix on that CD (I actually have it) is on the True Faith US promo CD - i.e. it's certainly not worth buying that CD for sixty quid! Okay, it does have the 'Confusion' video that you can play on your PC, but otherwise...

I'll have a check if anybody says anything different?

Cheers,

Nick ;)

I just want some NEW tracks.I am getting a little tired of all the old stuff.Time to move on.......... :p