Who do people hate Tony Wilson?

Posted this earlier but it disappeared

Being relatviely new to JD/NO, I notice a lot of negativity aimed at Anthony. I find that strange because he gave the band a platform from which to build. Is it just because he cocked up Factory's finances?

Not sure you could say that most people here really hate him. He just comes accross as an arrogant Twat. However, the portayal of him in 24hpp clearly is a carricature.

Yeah, I originally said that 24HPP portrayed him as a real wanker. But he did get the bands off the ground and without him we may not be discussing NO today. And was the Factory meltdown really all down to him? The movie makes it seem so (the table etc.)

Listen to the lyrics of certain songs on Republic, then ask yourself again what Bernard thinks of him !

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Listen to the lyrics of certain songs on Republic, then ask yourself again what Bernard thinks of him !

Or indeed the titles. Regret, Ruined, Liar. Perhaps Old Offender might have been apt.

It's also called "screwing everyone over and getting away with it" though......which I do not respect......

Originally posted by almanso well, the guy got away with it. he made a label without contracts and it went pretty good. and at the end of it all he didn´t sold himself because there was nothing he owned that could be sold. and that i respect

Thing is Alejo, there were quite a few of your fellow artists and musicians who were sold out .... respect is probably not a word that comes to mind , at least not in the way you are using it , when they look back on their time at Factory

That said, I cant help but like the fella

Not many local tv presenters had a music policy like Tony's, the poor fcukers in yorkshire probably had to put up with what that countdown Whitely fella was listenin to.

Many sided bloke , not just the usual two

Thing is Alejo, there were quite a few of your fellow artists and musicians who were sold out .... respect is probably not a word that comes to mind , at least not in the way you are using it , when they look back on their time at Factory

I wonder what Shaun Ryder and co. thought, I'd figure they'd have one between them. :D

It's known that Vini Reilly, who was managed by Tony Wilson for the longest time, seems fond of his time with Factory.

Would there still have been a Factory without the Hacienda? And wasn't that as much Gretton's fault as Wilsons?

--Sam

I don't think anyone can come out of the demise of Factory with a halo intact, certainly not New Order, which makes Bernard's Republic vitriol rather misplaced. They spent rather a lot of cash on drugs and fucking about in Ibiza when they were supposed to be recording, not entirely dissimilar to the Mondays in Barbados, and didn't deliver the expected and budgeted product to schedule. As has already been pointed out, others of influence also made quite a few wrong turns along the way. It could be argued that the decision of the band to take 4 years off (and thus the various songs written away to different record labels) also made a major contribution to the demise of Factory.

Originally posted by The Happy One > Thing is Alejo, there were quite a few of your fellow artists and musicians who were sold out .... respect is probably not a word that comes to mind , at least not in the way you are using it , when they look back on their time at FactoryI wonder what Shaun Ryder and co. thought, I'd figure they'd have one between them. :DIt's known that Vini Reilly, who was managed by Tony Wilson for the longest time, seems fond of his time with Factory. Would there still have been a Factory without the Hacienda? And wasn't that as much Gretton's fault as Wilsons?--Sam

For Shaun and Bez's thoughts , there are a couple of books that deal with it, both contain more than a single thought..and some big words , not all of which came from their writing partners I assume .

Vini wrote a beautiful tribute to Tony, two weeks ago in City Life magazine , unfortunately I dont have the time ,patience or a scanner to put it online, but if someone does , good call .

There would have been a Factory without the Hac , Factory built the Hac , there was an agreement to build it , sadly whoever did the costings was a little out with the estimate, but by then they were commited , thankfuly, cos I enjoyed every minute of the place , then again I didn't have to pay thousands per week out of me own pocket

Hate is probably not the word. He is just an annoying prick whenever he opens his mouth.

I think the word 'twat' very properly describes him.

Originally posted by Garymac That said, I cant help but like the fellaNot many local tv presenters had a music policy like Tony's, the poor fcukers in yorkshire probably had to put up with what that countdown Whitely fella was listenin to.Many sided bloke , not just the usual two

Agreed: he'll get a polite round of applause from me on Sunday (though doubtless you won't hear it for the inevitable boos...)

I like the bloke - he's so improbable a figure yet has done so well. He couldn't run a business to save his life, yet ran one, building success on reputation and trust rather than solid foundations. He's also managed to establish a sustained TV career despite various outbreaks of chronic incompetence.

Anyone who can achieve what he has, and can directly or indirectly have the impact his actions have done on all of us (let's face it, none of us would be here on this forum had he not backed his bluster up with cash and taking the risk) has to be acknowledged. He's a legend. A twattish one, but a legend. Fair play to him.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 I don't think anyone can come out of the demise of Factory with a halo intact, certainly not New Order, which makes Bernard's Republic vitriol rather misplaced. They spent rather a lot of cash on drugs and fucking about in Ibiza when they were supposed to be recording, not entirely dissimilar to the Mondays in Barbados, and didn't deliver the expected and budgeted product to schedule. As has already been pointed out, others of influence also made quite a few wrong turns along the way. It could be argued that the decision of the band to take 4 years off (and thus the various songs written away to different record labels) also made a major contribution to the demise of Factory.

Bit of a difference in the two albums that those junkets provided though. Pills and thrill reamins an unmitigated pile of shite.

I love to hate him if you get my drift. He is an arrogant twat put I think he puts some of that on. He haad a lot of bottle to invest all his inheritance into Factory like he did.

I think one of Factory's biggest mistakes was not signing the Smiths, both Gretton and Wilson were to blame for this.

I still to this day fail to see how they got the money to build the Hacienda, Joy Divsion were probably not as big then as they are now, and New Order weren't selling that many records as they do now. I guess they just made more profit per unit than records companies make today.

I'm interested to see how Wilson behaves on Sunday, I imagine we would be very polite with the F words coming from Barnie.

Speaking of which I'm pretty sure Mr Wilson has a piece in tomorrows Times about the current Manchester property boom, I saw an ad for it and he was in his own (I assume?) pad with a bunch of Factory memorablia knocking around.

As for the fella himself, I say fair play to him, I'd say the world could do with a few more of his types and a few less Simon Cowells, well certainly in the music biz at least.

Originally posted by ShugZV© He's just such a great pantomime baddie

Possibly the most accurate summary yet.

Originally posted by ShugZV© Surely you meant YES PLEASE Hanky!?!Pills n Thrills was the Dogs Bahollicks

Which one were they in Barbados for? They didn't do anything worth a carrot after Step On.

Tony Wilson is Satan. As far as I'm concerned New Order would have happened one way or the other without his assistance.

I just can't stand the bloke. Just something about him gives me the creeps. Perhaps he's a nonce, on 'NewOrderStory' he had the coat for it!

Well i shall applaud him loudly next time i see him.Top bloke and great TV presenter.Without him most of my collecting would have been pointless.I think we complain far too much after it goes sour and should just remember the good times that he was a BIG part of.Shit HAPPENS in life...always.It is how we deal with it AFTER that matters.I still support NEW ORDER years after they left FACTORY but loved those early years.A bit like people complaining about THE APPLE ERA BEATLES and forgetting how they got there.Just take most of what he says with a PINCH OF SALT but remember without him WOULD they have got the break?Maybe...maybe not. Nice one ANTHONY H WILSON

Originally posted by ShugZV© Surely you meant YES PLEASE Hanky!?!Pills n Thrills was the Dogs Bahollicks

Sentimental as I am about "Pills 'n' Thrills", it does sound terribly dated these days, eternally rooted in 1990, whereas "Squrrel & G-Man..." and "Bummed" still sound as unique and strangely otherworldy as they ever did.

"Loose Fit" is still great though: it sounds like a bunch of Maine Road chancers on cheap blow and dodgy acid lurking around the Kippax just looking to beat your fookin' head in...

Wilson's recent interview on Planet Sound (Teletext) was so unintentionally funny. Thinking that his precious new jungle band are going to be massive. I mean, come on: JUNGLE??!!

As far as I'm concerned, brother, Tone is just a vile little man in a pervert's mac, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time 28 or so years ago. Anyone who thinks this smarmy bucket of puke is/was the be-all-&-end-all for New Order's career is just insulting a great band.

About the one thing that makes 'Republic' so good is Sumner's constant slagging-off of the worthless steaming pile of mule's faeces. That, & 'World', of course, bloody good song...

But anyway, Wilson is foul, & don't you ungrateful so-&-so's ever forget it!

OK maybe there was a lot of right place, right time but the very fact that he put punk/new wave bands on TV was pretty remarkable considering the state of TV in those days.

I was watching an old tape of one of his shows a while back - The Clash I think - and lo and behold a spooty faced Mick Hucknell was front of stage! Didn't recognise anyone else.

I'm not sure the whole Madchester scene would have happened as it did without Wilson. Who else would have signed the Mondays. Without Factory would there have been the Hacienda.

Joy Division probably would have happened with out Wilson. Afterall, they did record an an mostly unrelesed album on another label. I doubt very much though that they would have lasted as long as they have without the Factory freedom. It is quite possible that without Wilson we wouldn't have New Order.

New Order never would have been the unique independent entity that Factory allowed... so something good came out of all of the absurdity, this was not just chance or luck

... and didnt New Order have plenty of fun with the Hacienda (which they built in a sense), doing whatever the hell they wanted, and lots and lots of drugs... heck, Barney was so burned out on trying to party like a 22 year old by 1992, its no wonder that Republic was so bitter and confused. who wasnt Barney pissed at?