early new order

i know the critics say, early new order AKA movement.... was a leech stucked to the ashes of their previous band. and that its dark, monotonous, uninspiring, non-progressive and all that bullshit. but that is my favorite album, i love the music, the beats, the vocals. fuck. you can play senses at a gothic club, ICB at a new wave club, and play doubts even here for all the alienated youths. and dreams never end for a night out with a loveley women. now thats an all out Progressive album with great tunes. and the vocals are life draining, but that swhat i love. that it tickles your life. best album of new order. what do hare say?

I rate Movement very highly too - it is vastly under-rated. It is probably pretty similar to what I would have expected JD to go on and create. Truth is one of their finest and most atmospheric moments committed to vinyl. I like the sounds and effects they used on various tracks and I think Bernard's vocals really complemented the mood of the synths. I think that they took things positively to the next stage with Everythings Gone Green and both PCL (my favourite - at their peak) and Lowlife were excellent, but beyond 85, at the time I kind of felt less enthusiastic for their stuff - (mostly) good now in hindsight.

Some of the best gigs stem from this period as well, particularly late 81 - early 82, when new songs were added as work in progress, and blended with the Movement material. An exciting time.

Best album, best gigs. They've never topped Movement as a coherent artistic statement - claustrophobic, anxious, yet a brave new step. Breathtakingly inventive production from MH too. As circumstances changed you couldn't expect them to produce anything like it again, but it's a shame that some of the production ideas, sounds and textures haven't been expanded further.

'Movement' stinks of mule's poo

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes 'Movement' stinks of mule's poo

There's nothing like a useful insightful contribution to a discussion, and that was nothing like a useful insightful contribution to a discussion.

Bernard hates it, I do hate it too except the classic "Dreams Never End" of course. In fact I am not sure it is worst than republic, I think that the problem whith both LPs is not the song writing quality but the sound production.

I've always thought that the production sounds a mixture of claustrophobia and being unsure of how they wanted to sound. Whereas Ceremony chimed out majestically, Movement hid away, the vocals layered behind everything, and the songs suffered as though they were being listened to from a distance. Chosen Time nearly breaks out, but you only have to listen to some of the live versions of tracks like ICB, or the Peel Session version, to see how good these tracks were when played without anyone suffocating them. I honestly believe Hannett had lost the plot at this stage, he didn't know how to let the band develop their own sound identity now they were headless, and the whole end result is literally shrouded by uncertainty.

Movement has always been one of my very favorites. Either that or Low-Life has to be their best album. It still amazes me that so many New Order fans love Joy Division but hate Movement. Strange, really. The whole album's great (with the exception of one song). The first three songs are absolute classics!

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 I've always thought that the production sounds a mixture of claustrophobia and being unsure of how they wanted to sound. Whereas Ceremony chimed out majestically, Movement hid away, the vocals layered behind everything, and the songs suffered as though they were being listened to from a distance. Chosen Time nearly breaks out, but you only have to listen to some of the live versions of tracks like ICB, or the Peel Session version, to see how good these tracks were when played without anyone suffocating them. I honestly believe Hannett had lost the plot at this stage, he didn't know how to let the band develop their own sound identity now they were headless, and the whole end result is literally shrouded by uncertainty.

It was a strange production but then FBN8 and Procession both sounded I thought quite crisp.

well what amazes me is the Return of movement to the tortured youth of the scene. with the surge of electro clash and all that bullshit, enthusists and curious young cats read about the new bands, and somewhere in their interviews in a hip magazine they give praise to new order, and name their favorite album. these kids then research. (finally something productive) and find movement. its odd, distance, different, atmospheric,doom and gloom, yet dancey (some tracks)i think all, a perfect medium to play in their car while they wonder aimlessly trying too hard to isolate them from pop culture. now you see pictures of the album cover in man places, giving praise to something they probably dont know anything about, but just looks cool cause its "vintage" yet consistent to dark wave kids. unfortunetly i am a kid. but still my brother showed me them (now 34) when i was a wee one, so i can retain my sense of honesty on why movement is my favorite album.

Its dark,sends shivers down my spine and is only listened to late at night.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes> 'Movement' stinks of mule's poo

There's nothing like a useful insightful contribution to a discussion, and that was nothing like a useful insightful contribution to a discussion.

I know! I have inappropriate outbursts... shitbag.

SEE?

It's never been one of my favourite New Order albums... but I can honestly say that its the only one with Technique where I actually like ALL of the tracks Even now it's quite an unusual album, I don't think there was much around sounding like that at the time (or ever maybe?), where as they sounded like Pet Shop Boys or Beloved clones for Republic, and any old guitar-rock band on Get Ready

What if they re-recorded Movement now, could be intresting!

This album will either be hated or endeared. They should have quit. They should have found other bands that needed a hand. But they did not. They dropped the JD set, wrote an entire new set and drew straws on who would sing.

When was it recorded? Released in November of 81, they may have gigged 30 times before they hit the studio. Most of these tracks were from their live set. I think its pretty damn good.

Those steps, that seem to take a life time........

Dreams Never End was last played in 1993 (Revenge). ICB was last played in 1985. Denial was last played in 1986. Chosen Time was last played in 1985. Truth was plast played in 1983.

Not bad for a "crappy" album. How many Republic tunes were on the last tour??? How many Technique songs were played on the Get Ready tour.

Some of these songs were played in the same set as The Perfect Kiss and songs from Brotherhood. Maybe if NO could perform a high energy gig for 2 hours we'd hear some of these again.

Originally posted by #42 I always liked the song "Truth" and wish they would play it today -- it would sound great, I'm sure, with today's technology.

I can hear it now...

Oh, it's a strange day [hoot] In such a lonely way [prrrt] I saw some children dance [whoo!] I watched my life in a trance [sharp whistle]

etc [ad lib]

Originally posted by little boy lost > Originally posted by #42> I always liked the song "Truth" and wish they would play it today -- it would sound great, I'm sure, with today's technology.

I can hear it now...

Oh, it's a strange day [hoot] In such a lonely way [prrrt] I saw some children dance [whoo!] I watched my life in a trance [sharp whistle]

etc [ad lib] As PAUL WELLER would say."THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT".

I think "Movement" sounds like what it is: a record made by a band smoking loads of draw whose best mate had recently topped himself.

I like it, BTW.

i know this is probably old hat, but i am too lazy to go research it. it's the old ICB/Chosen Time thingy... on Teras Shev, is the first song not listed as ICB? and is the first song played not the same song listed on Movement as "Chosen Time"? ...or do i not remember getting drunk before heading for the office? (either way, it's 11am over here, and i am already thinking about having a beer. it's gonna be a long day.)

Chosen Time is the correct one. Track errors on albums,cd's and videos etc were quite common in the Factory era.

LOL He'd find a way to screw up the old tunes!

I just listened to the Staockholm gig from Sept 81 and the vocals on Ceremony are quite good. Two months later at the Ukranian gig (Taras) he sounds like total crap.

i loved movement,still do to this day. i was suprised to hear that barnster hated it so much as i think it was a brave album to put out after ians death seing as it didnt vary to wildly from the beaten path of jd. still as peeps have pointed out there are some classic tracks on this album. icb and dne being my faves even if the peel sessions of both these tracks surpass the album versions imo.

Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society I'm listening to Truth right now, for the first time in quite a while, and you know what? I think that track is PURE NEW ORDER. All the elements are there -- great typical Joy Division drums -- great Hooky bass -- dark synths -- Barney's guitar -- everything!

They should DEFINITLY play that song on the next tour!!!!!

I think we should start a petition...

Yup, put my name down. One of their best ever tunes. The western works version is particularly atmospheric... Funnily enough, I think DNE is probably the weakest track on the album. After a fantastic start, it just gets very repetitive and seems to go nowhere else.....

Originally posted by five hates six > Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society> I'm listening to Truth right now, for the first time in quite a while, and you know what? I think that track is PURE NEW ORDER. All the elements are there -- great typical Joy Division drums -- great Hooky bass -- dark synths -- Barney's guitar -- everything!

They should DEFINITLY play that song on the next tour!!!!!

I think we should start a petition...

Funnily enough, I think DNE is probably the weakest track on the album. After a fantastic start, it just gets very repetitive and seems to go nowhere else.....

I've always said that, after the first few seconds it's a duffer. Can't see the appeal of it to be honest.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by five hates six> > > > Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society> > I'm listening to Truth> right now, for the first time in quite a while, and you know what? I think that track is PURE NEW ORDER. All the elements are there -- great typical Joy Division drums -- great Hooky bass -- dark synths -- Barney's guitar -- everything!

They should DEFINITLY play that song on the next tour!!!!!

I think we should start a petition...

Funnily enough, I think DNE is probably the weakest track on the album. After a fantastic start, it just gets very repetitive and seems to go nowhere else.....

I've always said that, after the first few seconds it's a duffer. Can't see the appeal of it to be honest.

Brian Edge put it well in his "Pleasures & Wayward Distractions" book: "stirring though it is, fails to climax". Hooky obviously realized this too after a while, hence the screams during live performances.

why doesnt new order play stuff from their '81 days. they play joy division stuff now. it would be great to hear procession, lonesome tonite, murder (even if they have never played it before), dne, truth, chosen time, senses, i would orgasim that show. does anyone know why new order doesnt put that on their set? is it because they are too lazy to redo what is actual talent progression lol

well that material is amongst their most played stuff since they played them all for 4 years or so, I guess they're just bored of it. digging into the past for them seems to only involve JD stuff and not movement (or technique for that matter).

Simply put - it is my fave Order album.

Dave

Movement IS a coherent album compared to the other great albums soon to follow, which often seem thrown together... but makes you wonder if MH discouraged some of the obvious electronic german style dance interests the band was having... you get the feeling that energy and creativity being put into "Everything's Gone Green" (still a brilliant track, timeless)and "Procession" and true "mesh" singles was being filtered out of the album. some more of that style and energy probably belonged on Movement.

Movement was made by a very creative band in the middle of their peak creative period, and should not be dismissed or ignored by fans. these guys were a great band but seems like a lot of fans don't like the more experimental stuff of the early and mid 80s... this is great stuff!

I like Movement... I just wish the band were more creative now. They 'went pop' basically after Power, Corruption & lies I think. I prefered it when they were being experimental

While stating that I love Movement, I would not call it their most creative endeavor, certainly after Closer. The only additional creativity was a further step with electronics. Of course, writing the lyrics for the first time was a new step.

The real creative peak was the mid 1981 through mid 1984 time span--Temptation, Hurt, 586, Leave Me Alone, Blue Monday through The Perfect Kiss. Most of these songs were developed live (do they ever practice) the climax was the weekly tweaking of TPK (see Geri). Many of the Low-Life tunes were played live before they hit the studio.

After Low-Life things went to hell IMHO. While As it i when It Was and BLT are awesome most of the Brotherhood work is not a resounding step forward. Their subsequent hiatus that produced Technique, however much better than Brotherhood and much more refined than Low-life, was really the last great creative peak but not even close to the leaps they made in 81-84. So they got better equipment and Barney could finally sing. Nothing groundbreaking.

I am not going to touch Republic or Get Ready except to say that perhaps Get Ready is closer to Movement than anything else they did. Created after a break up and reformation, a struggle for a new sound, emphasis on guitar and jamming.

what i mean by "creative peak" is by counting from mid 1979 thru Closer sessions Joy Division was peaking and as you say i would agree that New Order was a force until the mid 80s, then in the late 80s pretty much refined their style instead of pushing it. Movement was made in the period between Closer and Power, Corruption, and Lies... Ian's death was a obvious tramatic pothole and Barney was not comfortable as lead vocalist, but musically this is still the same cast of characters... people shouldnt just ignore the record.

so what went wrong, if anything? it is such a facile answer to say that the guys were just "depressed" over the suicide. did Martin hamper the sound too much?

Movement is a great album in my opinion (coloured by history). It is a piece of art in a world filled with loads of crap produced by other bands. This thread made me play it again at this very instant (listening to truth now).

Well this thread goes outside of movement to 'early new order'. I love it all.

Movement is great and so are all those early singles. The Taras performance of EGG is what made me go and buy an electric guitar. The whole sound is sharp and angular, yet yielding and personal.

an amazing time really as they sought to find a voice both in sound and words and struggle through with the promise of early technology.

From Truth with its almost seamless change between beats to Chosen Time which is the prototype of rock n roll with synths it is all goooood.

Originally posted by Casey Ryback Chosen Time is the correct one. Track errors on albums,cd's and videos etc were quite common in the Factory era.

right, so why is it that ICB is the first song listed for the teras shevchenko show that was put on 3.16? they want to stay true to the original factory mistake?

The entire history of this band is one of mystery and mistakes. Just like Cries&Whispers and Mesh on Substance. That's why we love them. Too bad ICB was not performed that night. Still a great early gig.