Brotherhood

I have Brotherhood on tape, but a few days ago, I saw it on CD (which seems to be kind of rare in the US), and I noticed it had State of the Nation on it. Now, I bought my tape at a used music store, and it doesn't have SOTN, but was SOTN added to Brotherhood like BM was to PCL? It would seem awfully strange and would actually upset the sound of the album, since SOTN seems to be darker than most of the songs on Brotherhood. This has probably been discussed before, but I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Yes, SOTN is tacked on the end of the CD. And completely out of place it sounds too...

since SOTN seems to be darker than most of the songs on Brotherhood. This has probably been discussed before, but I'm just asking out of curiosity.

I think its one of the lightest songs on the CD! and the worst

Come to the UK and you'll find it hard to find it WITHOUT SOTN on

It may not be everyones cuppa tea but at the end of the day its NewOrder and its a free extra track, so if you dont like it then dont play it! simple ;)

I used to program the CD so SOTN was the opening track which I thought sounded better.

Might be because I was used to SOTN kicking off gigs around that time...!!!

Chris :)

I thought SOTN was included only in the UK editions of Brotherhood.

I bought Brotherhood on cd 4 or 5 years ago. It has State of the Nation on it. Not a hard album to find here either really...

The hard part is finding a new Brotherhood without it on.

Bought mine say like in 1990 without SOTN on it. right here in the Iowa, State of Boring.

Yeah, my little brother bought it last year--minus SOTN. But I'm not sure how old it was; I think he bought it at a used CD store.

My old Quest Brotherhood cd that didn't have it on died not that long ago. When I replaced it with the London Records version (made in Germany from memory, the only new one I can get here), it had SOTN on it. The CD cover is different as well. It looks like they zoomed in a bit for the new one and hence cut off some of the original Saville design.

mine doesn't have SOTN on it--i can't remember when i bought it, although i'm sure it was here in the US.

i see brotherhood on CD all the time in finer music establishments.

Originally posted by AgentWood mine doesn't have SOTN on it--i can't remember when i bought it, although i'm sure it was here in the US. i see brotherhood on CD all the time in finer music establishments.

Really? I've checked Tower and Virgin stores, and I see a lot of Substance, Low-Life, Technique, PCL, Get Ready, the best of, and International, but seldom do I see Brotherhood.

well boys & girls mine came with that track, for better or worse' but also came with a cd car carry case ie: a replica cd sleeve to chuck in the car & very sexy it is too actually everything new order & joy division pre 96 - 97 came with these things, probably tony wilson trying to one-up 4AD, the pcl is the blue monday sleeve of sorts

Originally posted by shane roberts well boys & girls mine came with that track, for better or worse' but also came with a cd car carry case ie: a replica cd sleeve to chuck in the car & very sexy it is tooactually everything new order & joy division pre 96 - 97came with these things, probably tony wilson trying to one-up 4AD, the pcl is the blue monday sleeve of sorts

Yeah, mine has the cd car carry case too.....I bought that back in the 80's ( the bad ole days in Oz when every New Order CD is imported from UK until SUBSTANCE came out ) and the CD sleeve is METALLIC paper but I didnt know how to appreciate the car carry case in my younger days....it's very worn now cuz I used it as storage for all sorts of cheap CDsingles :( Anyway, I now have 6 diff CDs of BROTHERHOOD - one with SOTN plus Remix of BLT ( a Polygram German issue )

This topic reminds me the glory days of vinyl and cassettes. PARADISE is a stonking track to start the proceedings with - as would have been BLT but they were smart enough to make it the first track on side 2. Blinding.

Overall BROTHERHOOD is an excellent album (for the times) but there are certainly elements which were 'over-produced' and yes, I can see where SOTN would sound out of place on it - giving that the production on the track was crisp and clean in comparision.

SOTN is a funny old track for me. I was bang into it when they first starting playing it almost 20 years ago - and of course at The Tube. I never really did dig the 'remix' version and listening to the 'A' Side now I pretty much feel the same about that also.

DM

The one album IMHO where the songs sounded better live than the studio offering. State was ok live, better than Shellshock.

But Shellshock was perfect live, because it was all pre-recorded !

Have to admit that I can't stand Brotherhood. Half the songs are shit however you record them, and the rest (besides the definitive BLT) aren't helped by dodgy production. Broken Promise is a great track denied the opportunity to be so.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 But Shellshock was perfect live, because it was all pre-recorded !Have to admit that I can't stand Brotherhood. Half the songs are shit however you record them, and the rest (besides the definitive BLT) aren't helped by dodgy production. Broken Promise is a great track denied the opportunity to be so.

Bah!!

The albums great, I love it!!

I can understand why you say that, but to me the definitive versions of those songs are the format in which I first heard them, which was live. Most of them had so much more power and dimension in a live setting, something that was completely lost in the production.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Have to admit that I can't stand Brotherhood. Half the songs are shit however you record them, and the rest (besides the definitive BLT) aren't helped by dodgy production. Broken Promise is a great track denied the opportunity to be so.

I'm happy to hear that I'm not the only one to feel like this regarding Bro'hood. I even prefer Movement. The live versions are however often very good.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 I can understand why you say that, but to me the definitive versions of those songs are the format in which I first heard them, which was live. Most of them had so much more power and dimension in a live setting, something that was completely lost in the production.

Strange isn't it that Low Life retained it's live edge and PC&L as well but Brotherhood didn't especially the first handful of songs. I can only think they were under pressure to release a quick follow up to Low Life as that was quite successful.

Originally posted by Ben > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> Have to admit that I can't stand Brotherhood. Half the songs are shit however you record them, and the rest (besides the definitive BLT) aren't helped by dodgy production. Broken Promise is a great track denied the opportunity to be so.

I'm happy to hear that I'm not the only one to feel like this regarding Bro'hood. I even prefer Movement. The live versions are however often very good.

I prefer Movement too... to me Brotherhood was the first non-creative album that the group produced... and also their first REAL step into a more commercial sound. I never listen to it, most of the songs sound half-arsed to me and the lyrics are shite.

I thought brotherhood was a smart move after low life. they did the majorly synth based album then moved away with the emphasis on guitars.

then to technique where it's split evenly