Ian Curtis film update

I have a slightly dubious reaction to this film being made by an american.

Film History has proven that our american brothers have changed history to their favour. no?

(example - The film Enigma.)

either we get one of two stories.

a happy ending?!!

So we could end up with a film about an upcoming young American band from modest backgrounds in a small town, this band were largley ignored initially by the public, however, the music press could not get enough of them.

After a few records, the bandwagon starts, they start to shift records, by the bucket load. The band are looked upon as messiahs by all, the lead singer being a fragile soul starts to crack under pressure. He is introduced to drugs and groupies which all take affect on the relationship with his wife. Hold on, this is the Nirvana story

On a serious note, lets hope this does see the light of day, there was talk a couple of years ago of the Billy MacKenzie (The Associates, with a certain Ewan Mcg or Dougray Scott in the lead role) book The Glamour Chase being made into a film but zip to date!

What is wanted is a serious and realistic film. From having read the book Ian was made out to be a bit of a selfish ole'B', so please be true to the real story and not aim to an ignorant market by casting the lead as some kind of pretty boy just to add the X fator.

Originally posted by Robert Martin What is wanted is a serious and realistic film. From having read the book Ian was made out to be a bit of a selfish ole'B', so please be true to the real story and not aim to an ignorant market by casting the lead as some kind of pretty boy just to add the X fator.

Agreed. There's a real problem for the filmakers here, though. When I read Touching From A Distance, I was thoroughly pissed off with Ian's behaviour, but ultimately I kept reading because I admire his genius as a lyricist/songwriter. How many people in a cinema audience are going to appreciate Ian's songwriting? This is going to be a big problem, unless the movie is aimed at existing Joy Division fans only, which I doubt. Also, without Ian himself in the movie (with an actor playing him), Ian's onstage magnetism isn't likely to come across.

In short, what I'm saying is that if Ian's stage presence and lyrical abilities don't impress the audience, it might be perceived as a movie about a selfish bastard (as you put it). People are going to leave the cinema with a very bad impression of Ian and Joy Division.

Note: These comments are made assuming the film will be based fairly closely on the account in Touching From A Distance.

Also, I don't follow Hollywood movies, so I have no clue who Jude Law is, and I'm not really interested. However, he doesn't look right in that picture. It's not that he doesn't look particularly like Ian (which doesn't necessarily matter). The problem is that he's about 10 years too old!

However, his salary was 10M$ for Cold Mountain, can a movie about Ian Curtis has such a budget?

Some actors agree to do certain movies for no fee, or a much lower fee than they usually charge. Usually if it's a small film, and the actor likes the project enough.

Originally posted by Robert Martin I have a slightly dubious reaction to this film being made by an american.Film History has proven that our american brothers have changed history to their favour. no?(example - The film Enigma.). :

The example you give , Enigma ; was based on a book by the British author and Times columnist , Robert Harris . The filmrights were acquired by Mick Jagger and produced by his company in the U.K. Granted Mick is a tax dodgin cunt and a peer of the realm , but I doubt if that means he qualifies as a septic .

U571 on the otherhand was a fuckin travesty and was rightly slated , though the producers did mention that the Royal Navy captured the first Enigma in a little coda at the end , way after best grip etc , in very small writing .

Anyway , however it turns out , bound to be people who complain/praise it and it'll give the forum a new lease of life .

Fuck all wrong with an American makin the film anyway , some of me favourite films are from an American viewpoint , plus I want to see the good Doctor Alan Wise played by John Goodman or that Tony Soprano fella , one of whom may be a septic

Anyway , however it turns out , bound to be people who complain/praise it and it'll give the forum a new lease of life .

It'll certainly get more people into Joy Division, which is a good thing.

I gathered from the book that Ian used to beat the missus a bit - or am I missing something? He certainly didnt come out of the book well - which is proberbally a good thing, it could have decended into "my husband the icon", but thankfully diddnt. Whoever plays him is important, but not as crucial as the hollywood effect. Will they airbrush the story? - also, how farr into the Factory "family" will the script go? The book centres on Natalie Curtis life- not Ians, or JoyDivisions. Many questions remain unanswered.

Jude Law looks nothing like Ian Curtis.

come on! why all this american-film-bashing? first of all, this project is hardly going to be on the scale of 'superman,' or even 'U-571.' it won't be 'hollywood,' like everyone's complaining about. few people over here know anything about joy division, so the big studios would never pick it up. therefore, it's most likely going to be an independent film (yes, even if it does star jude law--hollywood stars will work for scale on pictures they care deeply about), and the american indie film industry produces some fantastic pictures (and shite ones, but it's very healthy...you get my point); so if it's good, it might bring more people to joy division. what's the harm in that?

Originally posted by Clockwork C I gathered from the book that Ian used to beat the missus a bit - or am I missing something? He certainly didnt come out of the book well

That was my point - he's going to look bad, if this film is accurate. Unless the film balances this by being very good at putting across his songwriting/lyrical abilities and his stage presence, audiences are going to leave the theatre thinking "huh? why is he so highly regarded?".

Which is a shame, because when I finished Touching From A Distance, I was very pissed off with him at his treatment of his wife- but I can appreciate his greatness as a poet, so ultimately I can still enjoy Joy Division records. Cinema audiences aren't necessarily going to be big Joy Division fans, so it's essential the film explains to them what's so good about Ian, to offset the negative aspects of his story.

The alternative is to ignore - or tone down - his treatment of Deborah, or to do a deliberate hatchet job (which it doesn't appear the film-makers want to do).

Originally posted by AgentWood come on! why all this american-film-bashing? first of all, this project is hardly going to be on the scale of 'superman,' or even 'U-571.' it won't be 'hollywood,' like everyone's complaining about. few people over here know anything about joy division, so the big studios would never pick it up. therefore, it's most likely going to be an independent film (yes, even if it does star jude law--hollywood stars will work for scale on pictures they care deeply about), and the american indie film industry produces some fantastic pictures (and shite ones, but it's very healthy...you get my point); so if it's good, it might bring more people to joy division. what's the harm in that?

You're absolutely right. It will NOT be a cheesy Hollywood flick with car chases and happy endings and explosions and whatnot. It will be an independent film and have probably the same sort of limited run that '24 Hour Party People' had over here. And of course Jude Law will work for scale on it; I recall the last Ewan McGregor film, 'Young Adam,' which showed in limited run at the local arthouse theatre, and it was certainly made on a small budget (though not in Hollywood).

Besides, If we Americans didn't export a lot of our "Hollywood" films (most of which are crap these days), you wouldn't have much to watch! If you think about your favorite films (I recall various threads on this), chances are very good that the majority of them have come out of the U.S. The British film industry has been floundering in recent years, even though the share of U.S. films going into the UK has remained fairly steady from 1980-1995 at roughly 75% (so says the chart I'm looking at). I have nothing against indigenous film industries, and I'd prefer that the Ian Curtis film was solely a British production--but at least the film will be able to test itself within the growing (and thriving) U.S. indie film market that is proving to be a considerable challenge to the more "mainstream" Hollywood productions.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope

Besides, If we Americans didn't export a lot of our "Hollywood" films (most of which are crap these days), you wouldn't have much to watch!

I don't think that's quite true, as our own industry would then be stronger, and so would those of other European countries. One of the main reasons that the British and European film industries are weak is because of the overwhelming competition from US films.

I'm not bashing US movies by the way. Although most of them are shite, that's true of most things, including British movies. A high % of the greatest movies of all time have come out of America.

I agree with your other points - the Joy Division movie is unlikely to be a "happy ending" Hollywood style blockbuster. Whether it'll be any good, though, remains to be seen. We simply can't know either way until we see the thing.

eXistenZ--great film; david cronenberg--one of your greatest canadian exports there, nic!

Originally posted by AgentWood eXistenZ--great film; david cronenberg--one of your greatest canadian exports there, nic!

Absolutely one of the best films (along with Dead Ringers, Videodrome, and Naked Lunch) from one of the best directors!

Speaking of Canadian directors, I saw Guy Maddin's new film "The Saddest Music in the World" a few days ago and it was GREAT! Hilarious stuff! My #2 film of the year, just after "Eternal Sunshine." Highly recommended to everyone--especially all you Kids in the Hall fans (you know who you are)! :D

Jude Law? It shows you how much the film industry has got its head up its ass - he's too old, too phoney and he can't act (anyone seen Enemy At The Gates? My dog could have acted better than Law) I know a film may introduce Joy Division to new fans etc, but I can't help feel these films cheapen the music/lyrics and take some of the magic out of it. It's the kind of thing Curtis would have detested.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by AgentWood> eXistenZ--great film; david cronenberg--one of your greatest canadian exports there, nic!

Absolutely one of the best films (along with Dead Ringers, Videodrome, and Naked Lunch) from one of the best directors!

Speaking of Canadian directors, I saw Guy Maddin's new film "The Saddest Music in the World" a few days ago and it was GREAT! Hilarious stuff! My #2 film of the year, just after "Eternal Sunshine." Highly recommended to everyone--especially all you Kids in the Hall fans (you know who you are)! :D

There was a Maddin season at the local at house. only got to see 2 films mind (saddest music is great).

As an addition to this debate, C4 teletext p.351 here in the UK has a very brief snippet of a very brief interview with Hooky from the Macclesfield Gazette (who are doubtless chuffed that this film will put them on the proverbial map). He says he believes Law will play Ian, and that it doesn't matter that it's a Hollywood flick as long as they "get the story right".

From the horse's mouth.

Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead He says he believes Law will play Ian, and that it doesn't matter that it's a Hollywood flick as long as they "get the story right".

Well, yes, but that's obvious, isn't it? If they "get the story right", there can't be any complaints, really.

However, the real question is whether a Hollywood movie is likely to "get the story right". Obviously, we can't know either way until the thing is released, so the speculation is based on what we know about the film so far: is it looking promising or not?

Like it or not, the speculation is going to resurface any time a new rumour circulates, and every time a nugget of information is announced.

So if it all goes well , will the next NOrder Stateside gig be at the Kodak theater LA LA Land ? Just the one song mind . Even Wilson didn't dream of that being a possibility , make a change from Randy Newman :D

Originally posted by Garymac So if it all goes well , will the next NOrder Stateside gig be at the Kodak theater LA LA Land ? Just the one song mind . Even Wilson didn't dream of that being a possibility , make a change from Randy Newman :D

A one-song set? Well, it'll please the purists!!

Originally posted by Stupid > Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead He says he believes Law will play Ian, and that it doesn't matter that it's a Hollywood flick as long as they "get the story right".However, the real question is whether a Hollywood movie is likely to "get the story right".

again, why call it a 'hollywood' movie? i'm not going to re-type what i wrote earlier but, for the fiftieth time, this WON'T be a hollywood film!

Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by Stupid> > > > Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead He says he believes Law will play Ian, and that it doesn't matter that it's a Hollywood flick as long as they "get the story right".> > > > However, the real question is whether a Hollywood movie is likely to "get the story right".

again, why call it a 'hollywood' movie? i'm not going to re-type what i wrote earlier but, for the fiftieth time, this WON'T be a hollywood film!

I agree absolutely that America/Hollywood produces (and always has produced) great films that are a million miles away from generic blockbusters (though I'm quite partial to those, too - I really enjoyed Spiderman 2 last week!). I think (on this side of the pond, at least) that people are worried about a largely American production not "getting" the UK. For example, the people that made "24HPP" (which I still maintain is wonderful) obviously had a feel for Manchester, its people, what it was like in the Hac at its peak, etc. What the hell does your average US production team/screenwriters etc. know about life in Macclesfield or the English North West?? This isn't yank-bashing, but you've got to get the shitty period detail right (which "24HPP" did), as well as ensuring that Ian comes across as what (it seems) he was: a wildly gifted rock star, but a selfish, unpleasant and deeply unhappy human being. Otherwise it becomes farce.

They weren't rock gods: they were working/lower-middle class lads pissing about in the bleak midwinter of the north in the late-70s. I really think the movie could be great; the drabness (as opposed to some sense of heightened existential misery) of it all has to be foregrounded for that to happen, IMHO.

Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by Stupid> > > > Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead He says he believes Law will play Ian, and that it doesn't matter that it's a Hollywood flick as long as they "get the story right".> > > > However, the real question is whether a Hollywood movie is likely to "get the story right".

again, why call it a 'hollywood' movie? i'm not going to re-type what i wrote earlier but, for the fiftieth time, this WON'T be a hollywood film!

I got confused by the Hooky article, which, in the context of this discussion, I wrongly assumed was indicating that it was a Hollywood film. Reading it again, I can see that this isn't the case.

My comments still basically stand, though, Hollywood movie or not: We don't know if the film will "get the story right" or not - so people are speculating on what they know so far.

Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead

I agree absolutely that America/Hollywood produces (and always has produced) great films that are a million miles away from generic blockbusters (though I'm quite partial to those, too - I really enjoyed Spiderman 2 last week!). I think (on this side of the pond, at least) that people are worried about a largely American production not "getting" the UK. For example, the people that made "24HPP" (which I still maintain is wonderful) obviously had a feel for Manchester, its people, what it was like in the Hac at its peak, etc. What the hell does your average US production team/screenwriters etc. know about life in Macclesfield or the English North West?? This isn't yank-bashing, but you've got to get the shitty period detail right (which "24HPP" did), as well as ensuring that Ian comes across as what (it seems) he was: a wildly gifted rock star, but a selfish, unpleasant and deeply unhappy human being. Otherwise it becomes farce.

They weren't rock gods: they were working/lower-middle class lads pissing about in the bleak midwinter of the north in the late-70s. I really think the movie could be great; the drabness (as opposed to some sense of heightened existential misery) of it all has to be foregrounded for that to happen, IMHO.

Nail on head.

Originally posted by Stupid Also, I don't follow Hollywood movies, so I have no clue who Jude Law is, and I'm not really interested. However, he doesn't look right in that picture. It's not that he doesn't look particularly like Ian (which doesn't necessarily matter). The problem is that he's about 10 years too old!

Granted, Jude is quite a bit older, but I personally think Ian C looked much older than he was anyway. I still think that Jude Law will do a good job but I suppose time will tell. I'll defer judgement until I've seen it, but I'm looking forward to it and it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

I thought the book was really good and my only concern would be that they exaggerate things in order to broaden the audience. I don't see why this would necessarily happen though.

Originally posted by AgentWood come on! why all this american-film-bashing? first of all, this project is hardly going to be on the scale of 'superman,' or even 'U-571.' it won't be 'hollywood,' like everyone's complaining about. few people over here know anything about joy division, so the big studios would never pick it up. therefore, it's most likely going to be an independent film (yes, even if it does star jude law--hollywood stars will work for scale on pictures they care deeply about), and the american indie film industry produces some fantastic pictures (and shite ones, but it's very healthy...you get my point); so if it's good, it might bring more people to joy division. what's the harm in that?

Please ! Dont put me in the role of an American film basher. To clarify, u571 was mentioned in response to Robert Martins post , which was wildly innacurate Enigma wise and also seemed to be having a pop at the industry you quite rightly support , I coulda said he was talkin out of his arse but they have rules about that , I mean the poor lad coulda been accused of being a xenophobic cunt at best , but quite rightly there are rules and garymac dont flout the rules , hell no .

Also the people who proffer the opinion that an American should not make a film about Manchester , are you also suggesting that Messrs Hitchcock , Parker and Schlesinger should've stayed at home ? Bollox ! I was shocked to find that Midnight Cowboy was directed by a Brit , I'd have bet it was directed by at the very least; a native of NYC , so an outsider has a chance to show you something new .

Besides if such xenophobia ran riot the Brit version may end up starrin Hugh Grant as Wilson ( hairs almost there )and Mr bean as Hannet , paid for with Lotto money.

Alternatively it could star Stupids acting dog ( mentioned in earlier post ) and HOOKY'S talkin horse ( also mentioned in an earlier post ) and get the Disney treatment

And Dr Clayhead excellent post , my other thoughts exactly, and 24hpp is still defended at the mac household too