The Great Long-Lost First Recording by New Order!

Originally posted by gary knight Detweiler, Detweiler, Detweiler.There you go again. Just when it seemed you'd done the honest, grown-up thing and admitted that you were just a little too trigger-happy with the quick-fire put-downs....you go and make crass, ill-judged comments about 'depression' and 'sympathy votes'.Personally, I don't think that depression is anything to dismiss in such a flippant, unsympathetic manner. As a fan of Ian Curtis you should be ashamed of yourself.YOU started the character assassination stuff. Based largely on spurious bits of trivia you've picked-up here and there. You can hardly blame Kevin for defending himself so passionately!

Put the lighter fuel down eh Gary, you're only gonna perpetuate it. Don't suppose it ever occurred to you that the only way I can deal with depression is to treat it flippantly ? Of course not, nobody else has ever suffered from it but Kevin here, have they. And, for the record, I didn't start the "character assassination stuff", I said I didn't like Haystack and referred to a couple of anecdotes (largely from Wilson) about the recording of Haystack. You can hardly blame me for defending myself so passionately !

Let it drop, will you ? Kevin's had his say, I've exercised my right to counteract his rather defamatory claims. Other people have seen fit to dive in with both feet, pointing an accusatory finger at me on the basis of Kevin's defamatory claim. There need be no more, I apologised for offending Kevin, and I don't expect him to apologise for his comments. I also don't expect you to keep stoking it. End.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by gary knight> Detweiler, Detweiler, Detweiler.> > There you go again. Just when it seemed you'd done the honest, grown-up thing and admitted that you were just a little too trigger-happy with the quick-fire put-downs....you go and make crass, ill-judged comments about 'depression' and 'sympathy votes'.> > Personally, I don't think that depression is anything to dismiss in such a flippant, unsympathetic manner. As a fan of Ian Curtis you should be ashamed of yourself.> > YOU started the character assassination stuff. Based largely on spurious bits of trivia you've picked-up here and there. You can hardly blame Kevin for defending himself so passionately!

Put the lighter fuel down eh Gary, you're only gonna perpetuate it. Don't suppose it ever occurred to you that the only way I can deal with depression is to treat it flippantly ? Of course not, nobody else has ever suffered from it but Kevin here, have they. And, for the record, I didn't start the "character assassination stuff", I said I didn't like Haystack and referred to a couple of anecdotes (largely from Wilson) about the recording of Haystack. You can hardly blame me for defending myself so passionately !

Let it drop, will you ? Kevin's had his say, I've exercised my right to counteract his rather defamatory claims. Other people have seen fit to dive in with both feet, pointing an accusatory finger at me on the basis of Kevin's defamatory claim. There need be no more, I apologised for offending Kevin, and I don't expect him to apologise for his comments. I also don't expect you to keep stoking it. End.

Detweiler

So you have the right to make flippant remarks about serious medical conditions like depression?

And the right to trash a simple attempt to draw a rare song to others people's attention?

And the right to claim facts as 100% true despite not being in a position to claim as such?

And the right to 'apologise' to Kevin by being more personally abusive than you'd been in the first place?

And....I don't have the right to object any further?

Er....right.

Originally posted by gary knight

Detweiler

So you have the right to make flippant remarks about serious medical conditions like depression?

And the right to trash a simple attempt to draw a rare song to others people's attention?

And the right to claim facts as 100% true despite not being in a position to claim as such?

And the right to 'apologise' to Kevin by being more personally abusive than you'd been in the first place?

And....I don't have the right to object any further?

Er....right.

This is getting rather boring, but:

a) You've missed my point. I deal with my own ongoing depression by making light-hearted of it. I'm truly sorry to anyone who may also suffer from depression if they cannot see why I do. b) I didn't trash the attempt to bring the rare song to anyone's attention, I commented that I personally didn't like the song, and that NOOL site members had had unrestricted access to the song for years. If anything, the subsequent furore has acted positively in terms of publicity, a couple more people may want to hear it. c) The various anecdotes I referred to came from such diverse sources as Tony Wilson (the majority of sources) and Terry Christian (the audition reference). That was portrayed back as being true, thankfully Kevin has now had the opportunity to set the record straight. It is clearly an emotive area for Kevin, as it would appear are most things to do with this era. There was no way of knowing this, and if my bringing the issue up has brought the anguish back, I can only apologise. d) The apology was sincere. So was the defence of my character as sullied by Kevin's reponse, which wasn't entirely true, as he knows. e) You have the right to do whatever you wish within the rules set by the site owners. I was asking for the matter to be brought to an end, enough is enough. It still is.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> > > a) You've missed my point. I deal with my own ongoing depression by making light-hearted of it. I'm truly sorry to anyone who may also suffer from depression if they cannot see why I do..

You're depressed?? And I just thought you were a miserable c---! ;)

That as well.....

Originally posted by ShugZV© Is that a no then Gary?;)

Not that Embrace , wee Shuglet , In Embrace ; if you're gonna be a freeloading wee fella , take advice from a rotund little fucker .... get the bands name right :D

Gary Mac

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by gary knight> > > Detweiler> > So you have the right to make flippant remarks about serious medical conditions like depression? > > And the right to trash a simple attempt to draw a rare song to others people's attention?> > And the right to claim facts as 100% true despite not being in a position to claim as such?> > And the right to 'apologise' to Kevin by being more personally abusive than you'd been in the first place?> > And....I don't have the right to object any further?> > Er....right.

This is getting rather boring, but:

a) You've missed my point. I deal with my own ongoing depression by making light-hearted of it. I'm truly sorry to anyone who may also suffer from depression if they cannot see why I do. b) I didn't trash the attempt to bring the rare song to anyone's attention, I commented that I personally didn't like the song, and that NOOL site members had had unrestricted access to the song for years. If anything, the subsequent furore has acted positively in terms of publicity, a couple more people may want to hear it. c) The various anecdotes I referred to came from such diverse sources as Tony Wilson (the majority of sources) and Terry Christian (the audition reference). That was portrayed back as being true, thankfully Kevin has now had the opportunity to set the record straight. It is clearly an emotive area for Kevin, as it would appear are most things to do with this era. There was no way of knowing this, and if my bringing the issue up has brought the anguish back, I can only apologise. d) The apology was sincere. So was the defence of my character as sullied by Kevin's reponse, which wasn't entirely true, as he knows. e) You have the right to do whatever you wish within the rules set by the site owners. I was asking for the matter to be brought to an end, enough is enough. It still is.

Here we go again....(with apologies to the rest of you out there having to suffer all this handbag-swinging).

a) Seems to me you've just done what you accused Kevin of - 'Waving the depression flag' and going for the 'sympathy vote'. b) Okay. Whatever. I certainly wasn't alone in accusing you of this. But as you say, I guess it all helps draw attention to the now infamous 'Haystack'. c) Fair enough. d) Okay. Maybe you both let off way too much steam. e) I reserve the right to write a few more tetchy messages if I feel the need. But I promise to try a herbal tea first.

Actually, I think I'll start a new topic. One born out of this. (Try not to shoot me down so fast this time, eh? Spare a though for those 16-year old Tasmanians!)

Originally posted by ShugZV© I am a cock.

Most sensible post in the thread

now we can all get some sleep

By the way....I recently discovered that the classic Cherry red compilation 'Pillows & Prayers' was released in a special exclusive expanded edition in Japan last year as 'PILLOWS AND PRAYERS '03'.

All those cool tracks by bands like Everything But The Girl, Felt, Eyeless In Gaza, The Passage, etc.

PLUS.... 'HAYSTACK BY KEVIN HEWICK & NEW ORDER'.

(Kevin also has another track on the CD. 'Spain' I think.)

You might need to search hard on amazon.com and amazon.co.uk to find it.

Gary - Haystack isn't on the expanded P&P! Here's the tracklisting from Amazon, and I have seen this in the shops and would definitely have noticed if Haystack has been on.

BTW - the original P&P is a great album!

Disc: 1

1. Portrait - Five Or Six
2. Eine Symphonie Des Grauens - The Monochrome Set
3. All About You - Thomas Leer
4. Plain Sailing - Tracey Thorn
5. Some Things Don't Matter - Ben Watt
6. Love In Your Heart - Kevin Coyne
7. Modi 2 - Piero Milesi
8. Compulsion - Joe Crow
9. Lazy Ways - Marine Girls
10. My Face Is On Fire - Felt
11. No Noise - Eyeless In Gaza
12. Xoyo - The Passage
13. On My Mind - Everything But The Girl
14. A Bang And A Wimpy - Attila The Stockbroker
15. I Unseen - The Misunderstood
16. Don't Blink - The Nightingales
17. Stop The Music For A Minute - Quentin Crisp

Disc: 2

1. Place In The Sun - Marine Girls
2. It's A Fine Day - Jane
3. Fetahering The Nest - Kevin Hewick
4. If She Doesn't Smile - Fantastic Something
5. New Risen - Eyeless in Gaza
6. Jet Set Junta - The Monochrome Set
7. Une Homme Et Une Femme - Morgan Fisher
8. Penelope Tree - Felt
9. The Watery Song - Maurice Deebank
10. This Brilliant Evening - In Embrace
11. I'm Used Now - Grab Grab The Haddock
12. Water And John - Ben Watt and Robert Wyatt
13. The Look Of Love - Martyn Bates
14. Chenko - Red Box

I'm sorry, my friend. You're confused.

It IS on the album! I should know....I bought it!

As I said, it is a special Japanese-only version of the album (released in a limited edition for Cherry red's 25th anniversary last year)......not easy to find.....very easy to confuse with various other versions of Pillow & Prayers released.

I got my copy from amazon.com (not .co.uk)

Here's the tracklisting.

1. Portrait - Five or Six
2. Eine Symphonie des Grauens - The Monochrome Set
3. All About You - Thomas Leer
4. Plain Sailing - Tracey Thorn
5. Some Things Don't Matter - Ben Watt
6. Pointing the Finger - Kevin Coyne
7. Modi2 (Extract) - Piero Milesi
8. Compulsion - Joe Crow
9. Lazy Ways - Marine Girls
10. My Face Is on Fire - Felt
11. No Noise - Eyeless in Gaza
12. Xoyo - The passage
13. On My Mind - Everything But the Girl
14. Bang and a Wimpey - Atilla The Stockbroker?
15. Don't Blink - Nightingales
16. HAYSTACK - KEVIN HEWICK & NEW ORDER
17. Place in the Sun - Marine Girls
18. It's a Fine Day - Janne & Barton
19. Feathering the Nest - Kevin Hewick
20. If She Doesn't Smile - Fantastic Something
21. Homme et une Femme - Morgan Fisher
22. Penelope Tree - felt
23. Shouting in Cafes - In Embrace
24. I'm Used Now - Marine Girls
25. Walter and John - Ben Watt

Atilla The Stockbroker, currently pre-match PA and "poet in residence" at Brighton And Hove Albion FC...

Originally posted by Old Blue Atilla The Stockbroker, currently pre-match PA and "poet in residence" at Brighton And Hove Albion FC...

Mad as a badger and great with it too, one of my fondest memories is getting to provide "backing vocals" on a rendition of "Awayday" once - "bollocks to that !". He was brilliant. I was promoting the show at the Student Union, and chatting to him before asked him if he would be including Awayday in the set. He hadn't planned to, but lo and behold it turned up at the end, with me given the honour of protesting about the fare increases from 10p to £5.50 ! I still give Ranting at the Nation a regular spin, and have been known to cover Holiday in Albania at solo shows over the years.

Hey Detweiler - Attila's still around! My band played a gig with him in Brighton last year and he popped in to see us when we played back there again a couple of weeks ago. A living legend!

Thanks for putting me straight on the P&P tracklisting, Gary - I might have known there was a japanese version lurking around.

Some of you may remember me from usenet or this site a long time ago, but I have been lurking for the past several years.

I feel that I must make a statement.

Haystack is one of the best songs I have ever heard. I eventually got my hands on pretty much everything else Kevin has recorded, and especially favor Ophelia's Drinking Song on 7 inch....

It is truly sad that Dietnazi would impugn Kevin and then have the lack of style to just shut up when shown the door... a gentleman would have just apologized and let it rest... this is not about who is right or wrong. it is about surpassing one's petty ego.

Everyone is entitled to their personal musical opinion, and not everyone on the planet has to enjoy Haystack. But many of us hardcore Factory fanatics appreciate the history of that particular document, and are ecstatic that it is not only historic, but a brilliant work... one could even call it part of the jd/no canon, and at the very least it could be respected, as informing us all of the state of mind of those musicians at a very fragile time...

and the lyrics are pure genius. the vocals rise eternally over those early new order keys. it is an attempt... an attempt to rise from the ashes.

for dietnazi to deride any work of this caliber in the flippant way that he did just shows his lacking... it would be like dismissing The Drawback by Warsaw. No, dietnazi, you don't have to like it, but you could at least just chill and respect the artists.

and the best way for you to do that right now, especially after receiving a much needed slap from Kevin, is to just stay away from this forum, or at least this thread, for a couple days and get a clue. there ARE some things in life larger than your ego, dietnazi....

ok, my one post in two years.... enjoy...

and Kevin, if you are lurking, and I doubt you are cause of these idiots here who have no clue about the weight of history, well, just know that there are a lot of us fans who appreciate your work....

-tarbox

Originally posted by mat.austin.tarbox Some of you may remember me from usenet or this site a long time ago, but I have been lurking for the past several years.I feel that I must make a statement.Haystack is one of the best songs I have ever heard. I eventually got my hands on pretty much everything else Kevin has recorded, and especially favor Ophelia's Drinking Song on 7 inch.... It is truly sad that Dietnazi would impugn Kevin and then have the lack of style to just shut up when shown the door... a gentleman would have just apologized and let it rest... this is not about who is right or wrong. it is about surpassing one's petty ego.Everyone is entitled to their personal musical opinion, and not everyone on the planet has to enjoy Haystack. But many of us hardcore Factory fanatics appreciate the history of that particular document, and are ecstatic that it is not only historic, but a brilliant work... one could even call it part of the jd/no canon, and at the very least it could be respected, as informing us all of the state of mind of those musicians at a very fragile time...and the lyrics are pure genius. the vocals rise eternally over those early new order keys. it is an attempt... an attempt to rise from the ashes.for dietnazi to deride any work of this caliber in the flippant way that he did just shows his lacking... it would be like dismissing The Drawback by Warsaw. No, dietnazi, you don't have to like it, but you could at least just chill and respect the artists.and the best way for you to do that right now, especially after receiving a much needed slap from Kevin, is to just stay away from this forum, or at least this thread, for a couple days and get a clue. there ARE some things in life larger than your ego, dietnazi....ok, my one post in two years.... enjoy...and Kevin, if you are lurking, and I doubt you are cause of these idiots here who have no clue about the weight of history, well, just know that there are a lot of us fans who appreciate your work.... -tarbox

It's crap who cares wether or not it's got any historical significance? and it seems it you who has the ego problem. Some nomark who's made 4 posts and think you can shout the odds on here and tell someone who's posted over 8000 what to do.

Fucken Do one, you beaut.

I feel that I must make a statement.

Fuck you Tarbox. You don't know the half of it, so butt out.

There's a lot of love in this room tonight. Funnily enough some people have warned me what these forums on neworderonline get like!

-tarbox It's crap who cares wether or not it's got any historical significance? and it seems it you who has the ego problem. Some nomark who's made 4 posts and think you can shout the odds on here and tell someone who's posted over 8000 what to do.

Fucken Do one, you beaut.

What difference does it make how many posts he's made? Fuckin 'ell, talk about elitism. Playing the big hard man....you "fucken do one".

Dietnazi:

I have 4 posts because I am a musician and working on an lp as I type...

Anyone with 8000+ posts clearly has NO LIFE.

Sad, really.

I mean, damn, 8000 posts clearly gives ya NO time to even jack off, let alone love a lover....

And, hell, my 5 posts since 2001 are better than any of your 8000.... ah, now i have sunk to your flameass level. hmmm, i think i'd rather be messing with midi... you aren't worth a breath...

:^> tarbox (takin the bait... and if you even knew who i was, you'd know why i only have 5 posts... idiot.... )

well, being webmaster would be a special case!

:^>

i mean, hell, i picture you with your ladies at your huge webcenter with champagne flowing and two massaging you at all times, as you dictate your posts to your webgirls to type in....

but, dietnazi, he is just some guy alone all mad he didn't get to play with barney in 1980....

Is this a thread about 2nd war?

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope I didn't mean to offend (as per usual), but I still stand by my claim that Tony Wilson has a penchant for bad taste. I mean, the Happy Mondays, anyone? And let's not forget the infamous table.

Well, I quite fancied the table.

Oops, it appears I've inadvertently stumbled into a war zone.

Wow. Great thread. Best in ages.

Like to know who Tarbox is though. Have an idea, but we need another clue.