Monaco's Music For Pleasure was the best 'side project' album...

Interesting poll!

While I recognise Monaco automatically weren't as good as New Order (how could they be, by '97 a 16 year NO career vs. a zero months Monaco one) they are the next best thing really. I am a big fan of Electronic too, although I always thought O2 were too lightweight to ever seriously compete for "most NO-like album". Not to be nasty, but I hardly listen to O2 anymore, it's like soundtrack music with silly pop vocals on top, Voytek and The Grave were interesting, but they stand out more as good productions rather than memorable songs.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, does Music for pleasure equal an excellent New Order album? The answer has to be completely YES. Nobody can fault "What do you want from me?" as one of the best pop singles of the latter nineties, even Electronic's singles couldn't get anywhere near that song (except Geting away with it, perhaps) in terms of "Oh, I know that tune" by the general public. Also, anyone who says they prefer the inferior Revenge to songs like Wdywfm?, Blue, and Junk are most likely speaking out of their arse. Revenge musically were pretty um...shite, and if the best compliment you can pay the band is "well they did a really nice cover version of Dreams Never End off some obscure bootleg just fourteen people own" you're really reaching to justify their worth aren't you?? It's like saying you'd rather listen to Surf Nazi instead of True Faith, utter madness.

In '97-98 Monaco received both excellent critical and live reviews, whereas previously in '96 Electronic's Raise the pressure got a very lukewarm response, and subsequently in '99 O2's Superhighways was quietly brushed under the carpet. The Music for pleasure tour was a total success for them, I have numerous gig CDRs and the songs are performed brilliantly and the crowd were really getting into it. The simple fact was, in 1997 nobody thought New Order were EVER going to reform, Hooky was quoted as saying hell would freeze over etc. and after the rather patchy 2nd Electronic album, MFP really was the next best thing to a new NO album. The facts are all there: fan response, the memorable gigging, the album/singles chart placings (top 10/20) all prove that.

I've mentioned this before, there are a small army of hardcore NO fans who seem to "hate" Monaco with a passion for a few silly reasons that are usually: 1) They sound like New Order, 2) The singer guy sounds like Barney, and 3) How dare Hooky take time out from New Order. Well all I say to them is those are remarkably sophisticated critisisms, bravo! 1) Monaco bassist Hook is *also* a member of New Order, what are they meant to sound like, german death metal? 2) Pottsy is from Manchester, as is Barney, similar accent hence similar vocal, Pottsy's voice is higher anyway. 3) Yes, how dare he. :\ohwell:

Just to show I'm not totally biased, Monaco's output was NOT flawless of course. The 2nd album was pretty average (not awful, just not great either), Electronic's Twisted Tenderness blew it out of the water at almost every turn and I hardly even give Hooky/Pottsy's second effort a listen these days. (There are some good tracks on it though) It was written/recorded/(barely)toured under very different circumstances from MFP and it that does show. In my opinion, their hesitation to use synthesisers and electronica on "Monaco" in favour of a light-rock-out-with-new-order-bass-twangs formula made the album really ordinary sounding. Gone were the clever style from MFP that crafted tracks like Ultra, Junk, Shattered, and Sedona! :( Disappointingly, the one electronic track "See-saw" is cheesy disco at it's worst (even more so than Sweet lips), and not even a record company remix campaign could get it released as a proper single.

Despite that, long live Music for pleasure, the best of the side project LPs!! I have a trusty bumper CDR version with all 4 bsides (Bicycle Thief, Ultra, Shattered, Comin' Around Again) mixed into the original US (inc. Under The Stars) CD tracklisting and it's certainly a great pop album even SEVEN (bloody hell! ) years on. Oh and to answer that previous post, I do have a copy of the MFP vinyl gatefold, bought it for about a tenner in 1998. It is a nice item with that extra photo (canvas, paint tools) but what I'd really like is the Wdywfm? limited edition Red vinyl single! Still looking for that.

Cheers, Ally :p

Well Ally, that might be the issue people didn't like, Monaco didn't try something new, Revenge did though...

In Electronic, Bernard tried new musical things, sometimes it didn't feel right (Raise The Pressure's dance tracks for instance), sometimes there are stroke of genius.

One thing for sure, I'd be curious to know Johnny Marr's impact on the albums, because I always said most of the tracks, simply add Hooky's bass and it's New Order...

I enjoyed both groups, they gave us material when we needed it, and I'm forced to admit, due to financial reasons, they are back as New Order, and it takes forever to create... Damn it, Electronic did albums in 1996 and 1998, Monaco too, what is so damned long? can't think Pottsy and Marr were the reason why it was done so "quickly", is it?

Originally posted by Spotnick Well Ally, that might be the issue people didn't like, Monaco didn't try something new, Revenge did though...

I hear what you're saying Nic :) but I fail to see what "new" stuff Revenge tried. Most of their music was humourless synth-rock, overcomplicated synths pushed way up in the mix in fact. The guitar work pre-Gun World Porn was pretty sub-standard, as were Hooky's lyrics/vocals. The guy himself has said so many times Revenge were formed for playing live, and he wasn't so bothered about the music.

It's no secret Monaco were very New Order sounding (I for one, thought that was a strength) for obvious reasons, but saying they did not try anything new musically compared to Revenge is a bit unfair. Billy Bones ventured into trip-hop with crackly drum loops, Shattered was massively experimental for an instrumental, and even the electronica'd Ultra with Hooky's loop-reversed bassline and distorted vocal samples was something relatively fresh. Not to mention both Sedona and Marine, lush instrumentals that pushed musical boundries far beyond Revenge's stuff. I personally thought the two Hooky basslines weaving around each other in Sedona was a stroke of genius, somehow I couldn't have seen Revenge doing that.

On the other hand we have Wdywfm?, Shine, Happy Jack, I've Got A Feeling, A Life Apart, etc. that all sound very New Order-ey. So I see your point, but I still think Monaco were trying something new, *especially* compared to Revenge. Don't get me wrong, I personally quite like maybe six or seven of Revenge's songs like Big Bang, It's Quiet, and most of GWP, but they seem to date more and more with each listen whereas the Monaco stuff has held up better over the years IMO.

Anyway it's all opinion Good debate tho..

Cheers, Ally.

Ally, I just say Monaco were in the "safe zone" of pleasing New Order fans with their music, generally... however, I think they did their load of crap songs too.

I still wonder why the hell they released Sweet Lips for instance...

But WDYWFM, Shine, Happy Jack, 3 very good songs, and I can say there are a few on the 2nd album that I really enjoyed (Kashmere, A Life Apart, It's A Boy, End of the World)... it was leading somewhere, I wonder if Hooky would bother with Freebass if Pottsy didn't have a new band, and he would have done a new Monaco album instead

But seriously, both side projects released quality albums, many might not think so, but I don't care... when I pick one of them today and put it in the CD player, I still enjoy them very much... The Other Two is something different, I have my share of problems to get into these songs, except for a few very good tracks (Tasty Fish and Selfish for instance, The River, Ripple and Superhighways maybe), but some I can't even listen to anymore (You Can Fly, I'm sorry, but I can't anymore!)

But now, we need a new New Order album soon, gosh, some people have to realize, it's the first time ever that we have to wait so long for new New Order related material... 3 years! maybe 4! never been that way before... we always had a side-project album while waiting between Republic and Get Ready, in 1998 they tourned so it helped to fill the 3 years gap between Twisted Tenderness and Get Ready...

Originally posted by Al Jarvis

Not sure where you've picked this up from Ally, cos I've never seen any evidence of this. Have found most 'hardcore NO fans' tend support most of Hooky's work. It's like he's 'one of us' so to speak. Certainly don't wish him any ill whatsoever.

I didn't mean every single hardcore New Order fan of course :D just one or two now and then from experience. When I was doing the Monaco site poor old Pottsy used to get a hell of a bashing from random NO fans, for no good reason most of the time. It pissed him off too, he got sick of the old "Why do you sound like Barney?" questions, which were valid maybe for the first couple of months, but they seemed endless even after 2 years.

As for the gigging, you would know more than me really Al! Your gig-going reputation is pretty impressive to say the least ;) I only saw Monaco once at their last gig in London and it was pretty good, plus the impression I got of the '97 gigs from bootleg was always great. I almost saw the band on their US tour at the El Rey in California, but that fell through. I agree Electronic should have gigged more for sure, Twisted Tenderness was a wasted opportunity for a kick arse album to be heard live. But didn't Barney once say he wanted to tour with Electronic but Johnny Marr was dead against it? Strange as he toured his Healers outfit a fair bit.

Ally.