How good a manager was Rob Gretton?

I don't know if this was discussed before, certainly not since I perused this board. I knowits not nice to speak ill of the dead.

I know Tony Wilson has been painted as the villain of the piece with his management of Factory. But weren't they all partners, hence all responsible.

Rob certainly doesn't come across too well in the New Order Story.

It was Rob's idea to open the Hacienda. In the New Order Story he has trouble acnowledging that it was New Order's money that kept the Factory, the Hacienda, Dry etc afloat.

Its fine to do these things, but shouldn't a manager look after the interests of his clients.

Let's just say that without Rob's considerable influence, they may have never progressed from Rafters. We'll never know.

As for the Hacienda etc, everybody makes mistakes, as Bernard once pointed out. Not that the Hac was a mistake to begin with.

Rob's the one who gave them the 'mysterious' image - without which . . . they mightn't have been noticed at all. Famous for being grumpy - it worked. The Hac & Dry were money pits tho'. I love the bit in NewOrderStory where they discuss the purchase of The Hac while sitting infront of another niteclub (in Monserat?). The whole point was so that they could go to a club wearing whatever they liked, get in for free & get free drinks . . & it took Steve YEARS before he got in to his own club without paying! "I'm not a bitter man"

These days I generally think that almost everything we associate with "New Order's attitude" stemmed from Rob: I think without Gretton keeping them on track, they'd have sold themselves down the river a long, long time ago.....

well fiancially it may have been a bad idea (for the first few years anyway) and then a liability in other ways, but the existance of the hacienda is probably 50% of the reason that anyone cares about factory now and makes films about them, and books etc etc....

Rob Gretton was a very influential person in my part of Manchester where he lived. I know people that knew him and I used to say hello to him in the streets before I had any idea who he was, at the time he was just a father of somebody who was in my sisters class.

I didn't find out who he was until he died. It is interesting to note that Mike Pickering lived just 100 yards way from Rob Gretton when he was in M People. Badly Drawn Boy would (according to the programme from the Rob Gretton night) visit him and they would all play lots of records in Rob Gretton's lounge.

I have been told that Rib Gretton's house has a reocrding studio which some local bands who know his son like to record in.

I think Rob perhaps undervalued his achievements, when people ask what he did he would mumble somthing about having a job in the music industry. It was quite a surprise when people who knew him but didn't know the Factory Story/Hacienda/New Order connection when they all found out.

At college one of my tutors was married man called Phill Saxe who at one time mananged the Happy Mondays before Nathan stepped in. She knew Rob quite well and described him as a 'lovely man'.

I don't know if he was a good manager though, from what people tell me that knew him he liked to have fun and he was a strong city supporter. Deborah Curtis book also gives off the impression he was doing it for fun which there is nothing wrong with.

I think Rob is a legend in the fact he had the idea for the Hacienda, he was the one that stuck by New Order and helped them to reform when things were not so good. New Order must think a lot of him, their older videos say "thanks to Rob Gretton" on the top of the credits and Ged Ready says In Memory of Rob Gretton on the inner sleeve.

At the end of the day it was really Rob Gretton who put them on the map and I think (correct me if I am wrong) it was Rob Gretton who introduced them to Tony Wilson and his new factory label.

I think the reason Rob was such a good manager was because of his apparant desire to have fun and do somthing goof for Manchester I don't think he was just in it for the money.

Tony Wilson takes the credit for so many things Rob did. At the Rob Gretton memorial do Wilson made a speach and said somthing in the lines of "without rob none of this would have happened" however he then blows it on TV chat shows when he says "when I opened the Hacienda", "when I discovered New Order" etc.

I

Tony Wilson is full of crap, it was Rob that first became interested in Joy Division, Wilson didn't have a clue.

I always found it facinating at how vehemently Rob would defend his band if need be. He ALWAYS talked them up, and NEVER stepped on their toes [in public].

As far as Rob was concerned in his dealings with the rest if the world where NO was involved...NO was the greatest band on earth!!

And he made me believe that while I was growing up and becoming a young fan of first JD, then NO...and I came to believe just what he was selling.

So in the regard...I consider Mr. Robert Leo Gretton, the greatest manager of all time.

Yes, he was successful.

And Gretton did help get NO back together by inviting them all to play again in '99. Who knows if they ever would have re-united of their own accord.

From my limited knowledge of the backstory of Gretton/Wilson/JD/NO it would seem that Gretton made just as many bad money decisions as all the members of NO, Wilson, and Gretton. But Gretton was a believer in JD and then NO. That's sometimes more important then money.

From, Will

He helped with their AIR OF MYSTERY and was a brilliant manager.Like LED ZEPPELIN's manager who kept that UNATTAINABLE quality about his band,GRANT would not them release singles.NEW ORDER did singles not on ALBUMS,no name and pictures of the band and limited interviews at the start.I always sensed that he was really THE FIFTH MAN and was just important sometimes as THE OTHER FOUR.Maybe this could be their new name!

Good Piece by Ian&Manc

Theres a good piece on gretton here

My contribution is thus: There’s more to managing a band, and to that bands success, than Money alone.

I think he was a great guy. That's the impression that I have, anyway. Someone who kept everything together, steered them along the right path, those things. I saw him drinking Sapporo on NO story, and then I saw Sapporo in a shop near me, and I drunk it, and was I the happiest person alive or what, although it was crap beer. But Rob was a top guy I'm sure.

Thanks for al your thoughtful replies. Yes he was a great man who did great things. However I still think he stuck with Factory for too long for New Order's good. I know its easy to say that in hindsight. If I had been in his shoes I'd probably try and keep the whole shebang going as long as possible as well.

But as Barney and Hooky said in various programmes: It was carzy the Hacienda was loosing 10000 Pounds a month/week before they got paid.

All the money from touring went into the Hac. As Barney said he didn't want to tour and make himself sick just for a nightclub.

So the way I read it is, that they didn't see any point in being New Order if they didn't get any of the financial rewards. Is that looking after your clients?

Who knows if the financial situation had been better there may even have been another New Order album between Technique and Republic.

He had a great attitude "New Order are great. They know it,I know it,if you dont agree,thats your opinion-and you can fucking shove it where the sun dont shine!"

At the end of the day Factory were not running a business, they were creating art and running a social experiment (The Hacienda). The entire business was about producing music rather than making money.

There is a part of Deborah Curtis book which says somthing on the lines of:

Gretton had a great idea for a factory christmas party, to be held above Woolworths, he would buy a job lot of stella's for 25p and sell them on for 50p. At the evening of the party Gretton started to sell the cans but soon got bored and said "f*uck it" he gave up and released it was easier to give them away.

It was also Gretton who introduced Mike Pickering to the Hacienda as far as I understnad it. He met Mike in London and asked him if he wanted to move back up North to DJ at the Hacienda. Mike Pickering them moved into Gretton's house in Chorlton until he found a place of his own.

Rob Gretton has made some financial mistakes though like refusing to sign the Smiths and later Oasis.

Originally posted by Ian MadManc At the end of the day Factory were not running a business, they were creating art and running a social experiment (The Hacienda). The entire business was about producing music rather than making money.

Not quite, but not far off. Factory were running a business, but were not running it as though it was a business. Maybe it was because the money to start it came from an inheritance rather than being earned, maybe because those involved were more interested in just breaking new ground and going wherever it took them than actually planning a commercial operation. Factory took all kinds of risks, risks that no ordinary business would undertake. Part of the success was that they dared to attempt such projects.

Rob Gretton's great strength was that he fiercely protected New Order's interests, and his greatest weakness was that he couldn't always distance New Order's interests from the whims of Factory.

Originally posted by Will Scheipers And Gretton did help get NO back together by inviting them all to play again in '99. Who knows if they ever would have re-united of their own accord.

'99 ????? Hmmmm, bet that's news to John Peel and all those who went Reading '98.

Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Will Scheipers> And Gretton did help get NO back together by inviting them all to play again in '99. Who knows if they ever would have re-united of their own accord.

'99 ????? Hmmmm, bet that's news to John Peel and all those who went Reading '98.

Eh, sue me.

Got the date of his death mixed up with the reunion.

From, Will

Originally posted by SPthree He had a great attitude "New Order are great. They know it,I know it,if you dont agree,thats your opinion-and you can fucking shove it where the sun dont shine!"

Did I say anywhere that he didn't think New Order were great? As a matter of fact I did say hed did great things.

And please no need to swear if you disagree with something someone else has posted. I asked a question with which you could agree or disagree.