Barney's voice & changing the key to suit

When did they start writing songs in a different key to suit Barney's voice? Before I knew this fact, I had always thought that pretty much everything after Lowlife sounded pretty flat and less 'New-Ordery' than their older stuff and I wonder if that's because the key change had changed the feel of their music?

Also, when did Barney start having a speach impediment? I don't remember him having problem saying his 'r's before the Electronic days and then all of a sudden it's all Elmer Fudd type 'fwom's' and 'twip's' - anyone else noticed this? In the Riverside footage from Jan '82 he sounds like he's wearing a brace and having trouble with his 's's. When did he start singing 'alriiiiiyyyy' instead of 'alright'? He used to sing the words close to how he'd pronounce them and then suddenly he became all American - why?

Lastly, why do they feel the need to have a chorus in every song the write these days? They never used to have any choruses and it suited their muscical style much better - they focussed more on building dynamics into the music itself.

New album's pretty good - 'Who's Joe' is a blinder.

Not sure on the other questions you posed, but I *believe* (and I'll probably be corrected on this) that they started writing in Barney's singable key around the time of Brotherhood.

dunno if anyone's noticed but they have changed the key of love will tear us apart now, hooky plays it with a capo now one tone up

Just one of the factors that determines them not playing older songs very often. It seems that around 1985 they suddenly realised that not every song had to be made up exclusively of white notes - the subtle key change made life a lot easier for Bernard to sing stuff. That simple fact also contributes to the undeniable fact that a lot of their JD songs these days simply ain't right. Transmission is, because it is played in the original key. So many aren't though.

Barney's voice and changing DRUGS to suit...

did they even know what key they were playing in back then? maybe Hague taught them that on "True Faith/ 1963"?

The perfect example of Barney's irritating new style of singing is one 'Morning Night & Day'... As in pronouncing right as 'raaat'... and alright as 'olraaat'. Does my f***ing tree in.

It could be to do with the singing lessons Mr. Sumner had around the time of the first Electronic album (if I remember correctly).

I am a musician and am unaware of this key changing...

specifics please?

until i see some facts, I think this thread is bs....

their songs are written in different keys, and they play their older material the same....

again, prove the key changes made please.....

p.s. i prefer the old sumner vocals... wish he had never 'learned' how to sing... first really noticed his new voice in the 2nd electronic album..... not a fan.

but i love the new lp, for other reasons.... (not his vocals for the most part)...

nothing more complicated than just his vocal chords getting older. Happens to all of us.

"The perfect example of Barney's irritating new style of singing is one 'Morning Night & Day'... As in pronouncing right as 'raaat'... and alright as 'olraaat'. Does my f***ing tree in."

That's exactly the bit I was thinking of!

It's got nothing to do with him getting older - around the break between Lowlife & Brotherhood he started to consciously change his singing voice into a more traditional 'pop/rock' style - which is very annoying at times and actually ruins the credibility of otherwise good songs.

Anyone else notice the obsession with writing choruses now?

John Robie suggested changing the key of Shellshock during it's recording sessions to suit Barney's voice. They've paid more attention to this factor ever since.

i think they also did this with "sub-culture" if you compare the album-version to the re-recorded single-edit on "substance"!

Tarbox23 wrote: I am a musician and am unaware of this key changing...

specifics please?

until i see some facts, I think this thread is bs....

their songs are written in different keys, and they play their older material the same....

again, prove the key changes made please.....

p.s. i prefer the old sumner vocals... wish he had never 'learned' how to sing... first really noticed his new voice in the 2nd electronic album..... not a fan.

but i love the new lp, for other reasons.... (not his vocals for the most part)...

I am also a musician, and would point out the differences in the key used in the live versions of several songs post 1986. Those who watch the Finsbury Park DVD will also see the use of a capo for the LWTUA guitar and bass parts. Ceremony, Temptation, Blue Monday and Your Silent Face are still played as they were written. Songs written since 1986 have incorporated the use of black notes on the keyboard as well though - something they had purposely shied away from before this. Bernard has gone on record as saying that they had widened their horizons when it came to songwriting "they were using the black notes as well!".

Originally posted by Marco Pleil i think they also did this with "sub-culture" if you compare the album-version to the re-recorded single-edit on "substance"!

Nah, this is in the same key (A minor), it just has truck loads of backing vocalists beefing up Barney's original (weak) vocal track.

It was John Robie that got them experimenting with more comfortable keys for the songs.

I noticed that they used to play Bizarre Love Triangle in A minor live, even though the record is in G minor. In A minor (such as on 'BBC Live In Concert') Barney struggled to hit the chorus notes. Now they play it live a semi-tone lower than the record, in G flat minor (as on 5 11/3 16) to make a more 'easy' vocal. Sounds quite good in that key, I think.

On 'Substance', 'Confusion' went from the D minor original to A flat minor, again to make an easier vocal track. No difference between the keys of Temptation 12" and Temptation 87, and Blue Monday/BM 88, however. Barney sings the chorus of Temptation an octave lower, in some places, so that's where the difference lies.

I think they play 'Slow Jam' in a different key live, also - it's certainly different on the 'In Session' CD.

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography > Originally posted by Marco Pleil> i think they also did this with "sub-culture" if you compare the album-version to the re-recorded single-edit on "substance"!

Nah, this is in the same key (A minor), it just has truck loads of backing vocalists beefing up Barney's original (weak) vocal track.

It was John Robie that got them experimenting with more comfortable keys for the songs.

I noticed that they used to play Bizarre Love Triangle in A minor live, even though the record is in G minor. In A minor (such as on 'BBC Live In Concert') Barney struggled to hit the chorus notes. Now they play it live a semi-tone lower than the record, in G flat minor (as on 5 11/3 16) to make a more 'easy' vocal. Sounds quite good in that key, I think.

On 'Substance', 'Confusion' went from the D minor original to A flat minor, again to make an easier vocal track. No difference between the keys of Temptation 12" and Temptation 87, and Blue Monday/BM 88, however. Barney sings the chorus of Temptation an octave lower, in some places, so that's where the difference lies.

I think they play 'Slow Jam' in a different key live, also - it's certainly different on the 'In Session' CD.

Andy

Yes, key changes have happened in newer things, too - Crystal was in G#m on GR and played live in Am, and Turn is in the frankly bloody inconvenient D#m. I'm not sure Turn will get a live airting, as it has 2 guitar parts that are fairly busy all the way through, which could challenge Barney's "can't-play-while-singing" handicap. All conjecture, mind CTB