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Well, when Ian died, as per the agreement, they stopped being Joy Division and became New Order.
Gillian has now officially left, so does the agreement still stand?
Or was that just a lads' agreement for JD?
I do realise that a name change now would be ridiculous and unworkable, but a member has left, so - morally speaking, should the name change?
I thought a poll here would be a waste of everybody's time, but opinions would be interesting.
Cheers lads.
(and lasses)
Which brings up another question I asked myself in the past: what if Stephen or Hooky were to die suddenly?
Would it still be New Order ?
A Siren's Touch wrote: Which brings up another question I asked myself in the past: what if Stephen or Hooky were to die suddenly?
Would it still be New Order ?
Hell no, especially if Hooky died.
JD= Hooky, Stephen, Ian, Barney NO Part I = Hooky, Stephen, Barney NO Part II = Hooky, Stephen, Barney, Gillian NO Part III = Hooky, Phil C., Barney, Stephen
If one of them was to go, no more New Order :(
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
NObabe wrote: Old Fat Lazy Gits and Phil
are you channeling Mike now?
Nah ... Mike would probably say Old Fat Lazy MISERABLE Gits 
All you have to do is listen to any of the recent records to realize that this band isnt the one that called themselves New Order in 1980... its now a brand name that will be applied to this new band and any band that contains at least one distant family member of one of the original members... ;)
Ajw
AJ Wells wrote: All you have to do is listen to any of the recent records to realize that this band isnt the one that called themselves New Order in 1980... its now a brand name that will be applied to this new band and any band that contains at least one distant family member of one of the original members
Ajw
As such a champion of Republic, AJ, can you please explain how we should link 'New Order 1980' with Liar and Times Change, but not with Turn and WFTSC?! I'm sure you could write 5000 words on the subject, but just a precis would do!
Wass a Precis Al?
Anyways, anyways.
The three of em are still there, so of course it should still be neworder. not mark one two or three. Just neworder, exactly as it'll say on the fookin tin.
Gillian hasn't left, she's just taking a break. So NO are still in place albeit with an extra member but the original agreement kicked in when somebody leaves, not when somebody new joins.
ShugZV© wrote: Wass a Precis Al?
Anyways, anyways.
The three of em are still there, so of course it should still be neworder. not mark one two or three. Just neworder, exactly as it'll say on the fookin tin.
Is the new CD coming in a tin? Should sit nicely with Heart & Soul and Retro.
I think that if one of Barney, Steve or Hooky had left before the end of the eighties - or died in a freak farming/yachting accident, then the remainder would have reformed again as "The Witch Doctors of Zimbabwe" or even "Third Reich" (Steve: "I can't see the Nazi link in that. It's our third band! What's the problem?")
But given the decades together they'd be daft to change the name now. It's a guaranteed stamp of excellence.
Al Jarvis wrote:
AJ Wells wrote: All you have to do is listen to any of the recent records to realize that this band isnt the one that called themselves New Order in 1980... its now a brand name that will be applied to this new band and any band that contains at least one distant family member of one of the original members
Ajw
As such a champion of Republic, AJ, can you please explain how we should link 'New Order 1980' with Liar and Times Change, but not with Turn and WFTSC?! I'm sure you could write 5000 words on the subject, but just a precis would do!
I've said over and over that Liar is impossible to defend, but Times Change is a lovely mid period song which is not in stark contrast with their work just prior to Republic... on the other hand, paint by the numbers brainless britpop with mandatory tuneless choruses stands in sharp contrast to everything the bands music has been about...
Of course they should change their name... my god, the original PIL disbanded when JEANETTE LEE left for godsakes! The whole point of postpunk was to band together with your equally untalented friends and remake the world to your own liking... drafting in pro musicians to play slide guitar says that you have an approach that is SO different that you should HONOR it with a name change...
But it doesnt matter what I think... if NO is able to take this victory lap and make this new work stand alongside of their vital period work then I will say I'm wrong... it will take about 10 years for that to sort out, but I will admit it if it comes to pass... but I wont be listening to the music in the meantime...
Ajw
AJ Wells wrote:
Al Jarvis wrote:
AJ Wells wrote: All you have to do is listen to any of the recent records to realize that this band isnt the one that called themselves New Order in 1980... its now a brand name that will be applied to this new band and any band that contains at least one distant family member of one of the original members
Ajw
As such a champion of Republic, AJ, can you please explain how we should link 'New Order 1980' with Liar and Times Change, but not with Turn and WFTSC?! I'm sure you could write 5000 words on the subject, but just a precis would do!
I've said over and over that Liar is impossible to defend, but Times Change is a lovely mid period song which is not in stark contrast with their work just prior to Republic... on the other hand, paint by the numbers brainless britpop with mandatory tuneless choruses stands in sharp contrast to everything the bands music has been about...
Of course they should change their name... my god, the original PIL disbanded when JEANETTE LEE left for godsakes! The whole point of postpunk was to band together with your equally untalented friends and remake the world to your own liking... drafting in pro musicians to play slide guitar says that you have an approach that is SO different that you should HONOR it with a name change...
But it doesnt matter what I think... if NO is able to take this victory lap and make this new work stand alongside of their vital period work then I will say I'm wrong... it will take about 10 years for that to sort out, but I will admit it if it comes to pass... but I wont be listening to the music in the meantime...
Ajw
Have you heard the full album yet, AJ? I don't think anyone could dismiss Jetstream, I Told You So and Guilt Is A Useless Songtitle as mere [ahem] Britpop. 
And regarding line-up changes what on earth should Mark E Smith be calling The Fall now?! Or has he missed the point of postpunk too?! Whatever that point was, of course. 
if every band changed its name every time a member came or went, we'd need a spreadsheet to keep things organized.
If Hooky, Bernard, or Stephen died or quit, the others will quit for good. They have too much integrity. You'll never see the remaining members pull an INXS and do a reality tv show to find a new singer or picking up a bass player from a tribute band.
Al Jarvis wrote:
AJ Wells wrote:
Al Jarvis wrote:
AJ Wells wrote: All you have to do is listen to any of the recent records to realize that this band isnt the one that called themselves New Order in 1980... its now a brand name that will be applied to this new band and any band that contains at least one distant family member of one of the original members
Ajw
As such a champion of Republic, AJ, can you please explain how we should link 'New Order 1980' with Liar and Times Change, but not with Turn and WFTSC?! I'm sure you could write 5000 words on the subject, but just a precis would do!
I've said over and over that Liar is impossible to defend, but Times Change is a lovely mid period song which is not in stark contrast with their work just prior to Republic... on the other hand, paint by the numbers brainless britpop with mandatory tuneless choruses stands in sharp contrast to everything the bands music has been about...
Of course they should change their name... my god, the original PIL disbanded when JEANETTE LEE left for godsakes! The whole point of postpunk was to band together with your equally untalented friends and remake the world to your own liking... drafting in pro musicians to play slide guitar says that you have an approach that is SO different that you should HONOR it with a name change...
But it doesnt matter what I think... if NO is able to take this victory lap and make this new work stand alongside of their vital period work then I will say I'm wrong... it will take about 10 years for that to sort out, but I will admit it if it comes to pass... but I wont be listening to the music in the meantime...
Ajw
Have you heard the full album yet, AJ? I don't think anyone could dismiss Jetstream, I Told You So and Guilt Is A Useless Songtitle as mere [ahem] Britpop.
And regarding line-up changes what on earth should Mark E Smith be calling The Fall now?! Or has he missed the point of postpunk too?! Whatever that point was, of course.
Yes I suffered through the whole dreadful album yesterday and it is indeed true its not all ghastly britpop... there is some ghastly past its due date "dance" music in there too... its great how they have "returned to form" by botching both genres at the same time...
I played the record to several friends who arent huge fans of the band but have been aware of them over the years and all of them said that they couldnt tell who the band was during the instrumental sections... it was that generic... they were surprised because NO was always so instantly identifiable...
As far as The Fall; they have always been a solo project and JD/NO have always been a band... usually neither animal can function as something its not
Ajw
Gillian pretty much retired on good terms, and I'm sure she didn't want to shake up/ disrupt the band (hell, her family still has a huge financial stake in the band, of course!)
as long as the three core guys stay together, everybody will think of them as pure New Order... even thou that may sound unfair to Gillian. if Hooky or Steve left/died/ when into a coma/had a sex change/ were imprisoned... people would start thinking of the band much differently, much less respect whatever you called them... they prolly wouldnt do it under NO
HaciendaThat wrote: ...the remainder would have reformed again as..."Third Reich" (Steve: "I can't see the Nazi link in that. It's our third band! What's the problem?")
PMP!
