Calling the UK

Hello,

Was curious- in the UK, is NO considered a "popular music" band? Excuse my ignorance- just curious as here in the USA they are huge with a massive fan base- yet considered "alternative." Been to England twice, but not long enough to get a feel for it.

Thanks, Veronica

Veronica wrote: Hello,

Was curious- in the UK, is NO considered a "popular music" band? Excuse my ignorance- just curious as here in the USA they are huge with a massive fan base- yet considered "alternative." Been to England twice, but not long enough to get a feel for it.

Thanks, Veronica

They'd be well known, but not 'popular' as in being bought in volume by teenagers

They're approaching the level of Rolling Stones/Iron Maiden/Ozzy in 'old gits who are still around' thoug

MYOB wrote: They're approaching the level of Rolling Stones/Iron Maiden/Ozzy in 'old gits who are still around' thoug

That is the best description of New Order i have ever read, brilliant, just brilliant.

Monster wrote:

Veronica wrote: just curious as here in the USA they are huge with a massive fan base

How long did they take to sell-out Chicago with their massive fanbase?!

It's a big country, and travel is expensive.

Monster wrote:

Veronica wrote: just curious as here in the USA they are huge with a massive fan base

How long did they take to sell-out Chicago with their massive fanbase?!

Not sure how long it has been sold out, but it is indeed sold out. Same goes for the Chemical Brothers in Oakland.

Monster wrote: How long did they take to sell-out Chicago with their massive fanbase?!

The New York gig sold out in thirty minutes so i am presuming that Chicago would be the same.

Geez Al, get fired today?

Even in the U.K when I say i'm into New Order and I ask them have you heard of them it's always a simple "No..."

So I don't think they're big at all in the pop world, the average pop music listener won't have a clue who they are, even in the U.K. But most alternates will know of em.

Adam R wrote: Even in the U.K when I say i'm into New Order and I ask them have you heard of them it's always a simple "No..."

So I don't think they're big at all in the pop world, the average pop music listener won't have a clue who they are, even in the U.K. But most alternates will know of em.

Yeah but to be fair, you're like 21 or something, and they ain't done a lot recently that your peers will be into unless they are very switched on. I would suggest that you may be one of the privileged minority in your agegroup in the UK Adam!

Monster wrote:

LE Roberts wrote: Geez Al, get fired today?

Hardly. Just making the point that New Order really do not have a huge fanbase in the US. They're a minority band, at best. Beloved of college radio in the 80's but that's as far as good as they ever got.

I would have to (regrefully) agree. They do not have a huge fanbase in the US. It will be interesting to see how well the new album sells.

It took awhile (2.5 or 3 weeks I think) for Chicago to sell out. That surprised me.

But there really wasn't much marketing outside Chicago. I'm in Milwaukee, a scant 94 miles from Chicago, but the only place I heard about the New Order concert was on NOOL.

Also, New Order were big in the '80s, but then they dropped out of sight after Republic. In the fickle US music market, you can't be gone as long as they were and expect to sell out a lot of shows. I'm also interested in how New Order stand in the UK. Are they more mainstream or more alternative?

I've heard of them, and i'm not alternative. 'privileged minority' i like that. See, around my age, i think you have to be REALLY stupid or ignorant not to have heard of New Order. Most people i talk to at uni or work have heard of them. They might not know anything by them, but chances are they'll not Blue Monday, Regret and True Faith.

I certainly don't consider any fellow British fans I know as 'alternative' individuals, if anything we all appear to be cut from the same cloth.

you including Shug in this

as an aside , i have daughter of 14 who really likes indie/alternate music ( greenday/libertines/others/killers/babyshambles ) as do most of her friends , they read q and nme & they all have mini-ipods going all the time watch mtv. And yet none of them had really heard of NO.

New Order - for the over 30's

I'm sorry, please don't let this degenerate into an 'Are American or European NO Fans More Dedicated?'

Over here, New Order is seen as one of the defining indie bands, much less 'alternative', at least ever since 1983, when their sound became much more accessible and less awkward.

It used to be that indie meant you were on an independent record label, but recently the term has mutated to represent a certain sound and a specific 'look' in the States- mussed hair, dirty off-color jumpers, overly tight ironic t-shirts, etc. Imagine the convergence of the Emo style with the Grunge style wandering around uni campuses, or just look at a picture of the Bravery or the Killers

New Order was great because they never bought into the idea of overly-stylized visual appearance being an important aspect of a band. So old alternative yes, contemporary 'Alternative' no

Monster wrote:

LE Roberts wrote: Geez Al, get fired today?

Hardly. Just making the point that New Order really do not have a huge fanbase in the US. They're a minority band, at best. Beloved of college radio in the 80's but that's as far as good as they ever got.

Well the US is a huge maket, heaps of people. It only need a small percentage of them to be fans, for it to be a huge number, although still a minority.

Let me reply to your post point by point, Hannett:

I'm sorry, please don't let this degenerate into an 'Are American or European NO Fans More Dedicated?'

That's just typical of Brits (he said, fully aware of the reverse stereotype). They automatically own New Order because they come from the same little hole of an island and the band must then somehow be speaking to specifically English/British concerns. They're just sore over New Order being lumped in with Depish and The Cure in America...which any American with ears can tell are all completely different bands.

Over here, New Order is seen as one of the defining indie bands, much less 'alternative', at least ever since 1983, when their sound became much more accessible and less awkward.

The arthouse crowd still seems to revere early NO...I recall seeing PCL as one of the top albums of 1983 in Artforum not long ago. That said, the youth (college-age and younger) here in the U.S. don't listen to New Order except for the very tiny minority like yours truly and the sort of other septics who post on sites like this because we're so fucking elite and no one else in the general vicinity to talk to about the band. Joy Division is seen as a "defining indie band," embraced by the "indie kids" as serious music, but New Order slips through the cracks as silly dance music that gets lumped in with other "new wave" groups and is not taken seriously except on the oh-so-trendy 80's nights when BLT and BM and TF are easily heard.

It used to be that indie meant you were on an independent record label, but recently the term has mutated to represent a certain sound and a specific 'look' in the States- mussed hair, dirty off-color jumpers, overly tight ironic t-shirts, etc. Imagine the convergence of the Emo style with the Grunge style wandering around uni campuses, or just look at a picture of the Bravery or the Killers

Indie has changed into a nicely marketable stamp of approval for record companies. I still use it anyway because I'm too lazy to dice up all those bands (major label or not) into the sort of annoying classifications they give themselves ("no, we're not indie...we're post-nu-electroclash"). Naturally, there is a big-time indie "look" also...mutant spawn of lazy people.

New Order was great because they never bought into the idea of overly-stylized visual appearance being an important aspect of a band. So old alternative yes, contemporary 'Alternative' no Overly-stylized in Saville's cover art only? Maybe not in their physical appearances.

I think music has gone down hill a lot, and many people accept medocer music. I also think some of the best music can be overlook, especially in the states (personally I think New order, Kasabian, ian brown, the music, etc.). I really don't like the killers, or the bravery, or franz ferdinand, interpol, & bunch of others. there "ok" in my book, but nothing special. I feel there trying to bring good music back, but in a unsucessful, mainstream way. well, just not a great sounding way. New order may not be incredibly original "anymore!!" (but still original enough I feel), but they still sound good,& better than most bands. & I feel kasabian, ian brown, & the music sound great too.

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote:

as an aside , i have daughter of 14 who really likes indie/alternate music ( greenday/libertines/others/killers/babyshambles ) as do most of her friends , they read q and nme & they all have mini-ipods going all the time watch mtv. And yet none of them had really heard of NO.

New Order - for the over 30's

try the subliminal approach - I have a 13 year old daughter myself - who pretty much fits the above profile, but I loaded the complete NO back catlogue onto her 'mini' and subsequently overheard her singing along to Temptation while doing her homework. Then she tells me she asked the DJ to play Krafty at the local under 16s skating disco - which he did! - she's coming along to Hyde Pk - not sure what she'll make of the NO over 30's & (and 40s)!!

New Order is OUR music so fook off!!!

Only joking! but sometimes people do get a bit protective of it all

You share birds, Shug? What? Like flying carrier pigeons between each other?

Wolfram wrote:

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote:

as an aside , i have daughter of 14 who really likes indie/alternate music ( greenday/libertines/others/killers/babyshambles ) as do most of her friends , they read q and nme & they all have mini-ipods going all the time watch mtv. And yet none of them had really heard of NO.

New Order - for the over 30's

try the subliminal approach - I have a 13 year old daughter myself - who pretty much fits the above profile, but I loaded the complete NO back catlogue onto her 'mini' and subsequently overheard her singing along to Temptation while doing her homework. Then she tells me she asked the DJ to play Krafty at the local under 16s skating disco - which he did! - she's coming along to Hyde Pk - not sure what she'll make of the NO over 30's & (and 40s)!!

Don't worry, my daughter was brainwashed from a very eary age and she loves NO (she attended her first NO gig aged 10 !!)

Monster wrote:

Adam R wrote: Even in the U.K when I say i'm into New Order and I ask them have you heard of them it's always a simple "No..."

So I don't think they're big at all in the pop world, the average pop music listener won't have a clue who they are, even in the U.K. But most alternates will know of em.

Adam, you really ought to get out more, mate! I don't think I've ever met people here who genuinely don't know who New Order are, unless they actually know fcuk all about music in the first place.

What's 'alternate' about a band who are playing a 30,000 cap venue in Hyde Park with Moby as a support?! Or a band who had a football record at no.1 in the charts and the biggest selling 12" of all time.

No it's true what i'm saying, I ask people if they've heard of New Order and it's always a no. I wish more people knew of them, but they really dont, where I am anyway.