Being completely honest....Jetstream and album in general

Hi, I'm a JD/NO fan of old, love them and looking forward to seeing them again this year in London, Mainland Europe and Japan if I'm there, but how many fans think this album is good? and Jetstream!!!??? Cheers, wbafc forever

After repeated listens I think this album is a gem. Certainly not up to Technique and Brotherhood, but better than Get Ready and Republic, IMO.

album is lackluster on the first 20 or so listens but starts to sparkle and sink in after that. Jetstream was awful to my ears the first week or so but now i absolutely love it. they've stepped into this weird reality where Cheesy as Fuck songs come as easily as breathing air, but Peter Hook and whoever's doing the little bit of electronic work, saves the day each and every time. Jetstream, Krafty, Vietnam and many others from 01-05 sound terrible at first then sink in. easily dismissed as throw-away pop songs, when given the time they are quite enjoyable.

i love the new album. their best since Technique and as solid straight through as they've ever been.

i don't understand people's hate of "Run Wild." sure, if you look at it in the context of New Order's discography, it's not "classic New Order" at all, and is unlike anything the band had ever done before at the time. but if you compare it to the world of sentimental ballads by the thousands of other bands out there, it's a really beautiful and touching song that could give other ballads a run for their money. plus it's about steve's sick daughter (or so i've heard), so for a song that's so close to home for NO, i just can't see how the fans can hate it so much.

Being completely honest ... my expectations were tremendously low. Multiple producers? "Dracula's Castle?" An uncharacteristically long and non-cryptic album title? And, worst of all ... a new guy?

The first listen through, though, I was pleasantly surprised. Much better than I was expecting. Solid songs, nifty Marr-like guitars, and only a few lyrics that made me cringe.

Overall, I think it's a good, solid record that I listen to a lot but that isn't going to win millions of new fans.

And I think it helps that I didn't hear any "leaked" version but listened to the finished project start to finish.

My initial reaction was Get Ready was a better album. However, WFTSC does take abut 100 listens before embedding in the membrain.

I still think the first 5 tracks on GR are superior to the first 5 on WFTSC but overall the album (WFTSC)is more consistant (if a bit over produced).

I dont like Working Overtime but I do like Run Wild. If they had chosen a better track to Working Overtime then the album dynamics would have changed and it could have been a far better album.

Get Ready was mostly forgettable to me, even after listening to it a godawful amount of times. All I really recall off of it are Crystal, 60 MPH, and Primitive Notion. Someone Like You and Vicious Streak are quite the sacred cows to most but I find them a snore.

WFTSC immediately sticks in your head. J-E-T

Run Wild is perhaps one of the best tracks New Order have written since they 'regrouped' in '98. Its simple, emotive, and a great ending to a relatively hard edged, multi-layered album. Hooky's bass is perfect in this track, and the melodica shows a wonderfull return to classic, old school New Order. It's in the same vein as 'Run' and 'As It Is When It Was', and shows that even though they had rocked out on Get ready, they could still write beautifully straightforward songs.

As for WFTSC, if management is reading this...I thinks its a great album...ACE New Order sound...a good mix of rock and slick pop...and I think they should think of remixing I Told You SO...and release it as a single...or as a b-side to the title track single that will be released after Jetstream.

Cheers.

N.

As for Jetstream...to the Management....The video could have been much better...could have told some sort of story...it was too stylized...Anamatronic looked like a gimmick...posing like that.

The track itself is brilliant...pure pop...Even PSB couldn't have written that. However Stuart price should be spanked for omitting Hooky's bass from the single version of the song.

Cheers..

N.

WFTSC - its an ALBUM!

what i mean is - its not just a couple of singles & fillers, its a coherant group of songs that fit well together - I prefer to listen to this all the way through rather than pick out favourites - which means that I am happy to listen to Krafty in this context(its my least favourite - have i mentioned that before ). The end track - Working Overtime is an 'up' rocker - it leaves me waiting for more & partial to starting again from the begining - which an end song should do

There are no absolute stand-out tracks (unlike GR which for me had Crystal & Run Wild ) but its more than solid & good enough to convert non-believers. & to be fair, virtually any of the 11 tracks could be decent singles - but thats for another thread

CuanaD wrote: WFTSC - its an ALBUM!

what i mean is - its not just a couple of singles & fillers, its a coherant group of songs that fit well together - I prefer to listen to this all the way through rather than pick out favourites - which means that I am happy to listen to Krafty in this context(its my least favourite - have i mentioned that before ). The end track - Working Overtime is an 'up' rocker - it leaves me waiting for more & partial to starting again from the begining - which an end song should do

There are no absolute stand-out tracks (unlike GR which for me had Crystal & Run Wild ) but its more than solid & good enough to convert non-believers. & to be fair, virtually any of the 11 tracks could be decent singles - but thats for another thread

I agree with this.

Bruuuue Mundaaee wrote: ...and I think they should think of remixing I Told You SO...and release it as a single...or as a b-side to the title track single that will be released after Jetstream.

That could work

What about a double 'A' side with WFTSC?

I hate Jetstream. hate hate hate it rock the shack is 100,000,000,000, times better than it. and working overtime might be worse that Jetsream with that said, i do really like Waiting for the sirens call, Guilt is a useless emotion and Who's Joe. other than that the album doesbt really stand out to me i think its a good album, get ready to me is slightly better one. live they were great though

its true. After playing this record over and over I even start to like the more weak songs. I also think its an album. Not just a couple of differetn songs.

But I regret to say that these songs are made in a traditional structure. In the old days:) they used to make unusual structures. More experimenting please, less anti-work songs :)

Just make Turn the next single...

really really believe that this would get decent airplay in the US considering the success of Coldplay and Snow Patrol.

I personally don't care how "successful" they are but am realistic enough to believe that if they have commercial success that they will continue to produce new material.

I like the album just fine.

I think it's an excellent album, grows on me even though I loved it from first play. I'm not a Jetstream lover (hehehe) but it's better than some singles of old!

FAC103 wrote: all studio recordings are shite, they should only play gigs...

there, I beat DigiMike to it!!! bwahahahahaha...

Got anything to TRADE?

Love this album it's the best since "Republic"

First couple listens drew a lukewarm feeling but it's grown on me and some of the tracks are great, some so-so and a few not so good. "Guilt is an useless emotion" is my fav (so glad they added the remix) along with "Turn" "WFTSC". "Jetstream" has done nothing for me. The first two tracks "Hey Joe" and "Hey now what are you doing" I like.....the tone and lyrics are vintage NO, but the song titles are rather silly and it discredits the songs, IMO.

Overall, good stuff. Welcome back New Order!

oldmonkey wrote: I think it's an excellent album, grows on me even though I loved it from first play. I'm not a Jetstream lover (hehehe) but it's better than some singles of old!

I concur - unlike Get Ready, I find myself playing WFTSC constantly all the way through and always enjoy it. GR had some great tracks (Prmitive Notion is the choicest IMO) and someok ones, but WFTSC is more even, consistent and solid - all in a very good way

Nic, you are right - Jetstream isn't one of the untouchable classic singles; but then again it's a good lot better than 60MPH, Spooky, State of the nation and a few other singles that spring to mind. In summary, WFTSC is more than worthy of being a NO album, and is probably my 3rd or 4th fave NO album. Oh, and WFTSC (the song) is so good it's creepy. I just wish they'd return to tour Australia again. CTB

"Get Ready" was readily disappointing, except "Crystal"

I find it hard to believe anyone can complain about an album that has brought us Turn and the title track, both of which would not look out of place in any best of compilation, and a host of top tracks, plus two tracks whose remix potential has already been explored (Jetstream an Guilt).

I didn't find anything special on it when I first heard it-- nothing that grabbed me right away. I thought the songs were all decent, but nothing special. Now, I think it's a really good album (and I agree with the point about it being an album). It's definitely a grower. Everything on it is good-- not one bad track in the bunch. I don't think it's a great album (in the 100 best albums of all time sense), but it is a good album. I'd give it a 4 out of 5 stars.

Jetstream-- I Couldn't Get Jetstream Out Of My Head. Especially the Richard X. mix.

i agree, turn is a brilliant song, probably the most accomplished of the bunch, i also think that the glimmers 12" of krafty is how that song should have sounded on the album

Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild? "All it takes is 100 or so listens and you start to warm up to these clinkers!" Call me old fashioned, but the only reason that I ever bought New Order records was to have the hairs lifted on the back of my neck THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE NEEDLE DOWN... the idea of investing such a huge amount of time in trying to learn to like music that is so clearly poorly written, arranged and produced is a testament to the fantaticism of... well, fans...

In the time it takes to fool yourself into thinking this music is good, you could enjoy five or six truly wonderful records by bands you have never heard of!

In response to someone who asked me if I was a fan of the band or not, I suppose I'm not really a fan... I just like music... and have been lucky enough to live with it for the past 25 years or so... these people used to produce some pretty decent music from time to time... but it must be something in the water they drink... perhaps they have too much wax buildup in their ears... maybe they need an ear syringe or something... hey it worked for Mark E Smith!

Ajw

Jetstream from the album-- It was OK the first time I heard it.

Jetstream, Richard X. remix-- I loved it the first time I heard it.

Same song....

Jetstream was an obvious choice for a second single, but it's kind of bland by New Order's standards. Tracks 1-4, Morning Night and Day, and Turn are all top. I liked the whole album on the first listen, but clearly it is not consistent nor immediate in the way Technique is.

Will gladly pick up the '06 disc because New Order have proven they can still write and arrange some really fine songs.

It's growing on me, But honestly, I haven't really listened to it in one sitting yet. Next week I'm driving cross country, so it will get lot's of play.

Sure doesn't affect me like the first time I heard Lowlife. But I'm not 14 years old and stoned anymore.

AJ Wells wrote: Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild? "All it takes is 100 or so listens and you start to warm up to these clinkers!" Call me old fashioned, but the only reason that I ever bought New Order records was to have the hairs lifted on the back of my neck THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE NEEDLE DOWN... the idea of investing such a huge amount of time in trying to learn to like music that is so clearly poorly written, arranged and produced is a testament to the fantaticism of... well, fans...

OK, but then how do you explain this:

AJ Wells wrote: To those who think me a dour old man always slagging things off, I will say that I was laughing in idiot delight throughout the entire Gang Of Four show, which was totally thrilling in every way that rock music can possibly be, and more... their massive yet open sound and complete devastation of the body and mind leave nothing standing... their music may have had slightly less of an impact on me initially but I think that that is its genius... those songs leave so much space that you can occupy and it often takes years to fully understand all of the mechanisms that they describe so simply in their music and tattoo into your body with their sound...

Not to knock Gang of Four, but it seems like you've got a double standard going vis-a-vis New Order and Gang of Four...

Spotnick wrote:

Sammy wrote: Love this album it's the best since "Republic"

That's not saying much though

You just said it's better than Get Ready, but INFERIOR to Republic ?

its someones opinion. I like republic (not republicans)and I can not lie

Well, I've been with WFTSC for some time now and I have to say that is utterly fantastic. It went from "interesting" to "getting into it" to "loving it" in the span of ten days. There is not a weak track. There are only good and great tracks and the great outnumber the good. If that makes sense!?! I have to admit I didn't like Jetstream on the first couple listens, but I'll be whipped bloody if I didn't admit that I now sing it at the top of my lungs everytime I hear it. It's pop heaven!

Track by track:

Who's Joe: Great opener. Those slow paced, brooding bells and that creeping crescendo of a bassline rev me up for something beautiful and melancholy. I love the way hooky comes in on the chorus. He gives a medium paced song real momentum and intensity.

Hey Now What You Doing: I liked this one straight out. It's nice to hear Philly spread his collaborative wings a little and throw in some nice gutiar work. A catchy chorus, great hooky bass and a soothing outtro round out a killer song.

WFTSC: Totally the shite. I mean can it get any better? New Order at their best. Barney's sining, hooky's bass, the sythns and the 12 string outtro make this song one of their finest moments.

Krafty: A good pop song. Love the drumming. Love the synths during the bridge and break. Hooky's kicking some arse on the bridge and rocking during the chorus. The lyrics could use some reworking. To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if they left this off the album and just kept it as a single.

I Told You So: Really cool song. Great beat. It nice to hear them try new things, while keeping older elements (the perennial bew bew synth sound) in the mix. I wish they would've played this live (saw them at Coachella), it would've rocked the house.

Morning Night and Day: Another rockin' beat. This one would've been great live, as well. Wonderfully explosive chorus and some stellar Hooky bass throughout.

Dracula's Castle: Second favorite song on WFTSC. I love the way Hooky and the vocal interact on the verse. Gave me goosebumps. Similiarly, Philly's guitar work beautifully complements the vocal during the chorus. Lastly, the outtro reminds me why I love music and namely New Order so deeply.

Jetstream: As I said before, I wasn't a big fan at first, but now I really like it. I also realized its function on the album as a whole. The previous three songs are a bit serious sounding. That is to say they're not exactly "happy go lucky" pop songs. Jetstream offers a kind of break in the drama. It refreshes you and puts your mind at ease. It doesn't hurt that it's as catchy as hell.

Guilt is a Useless Emotion: Sure, it's a bit of a throwback to carefree 80's dance pop that's perfectly digestible in a gay club or bar (not that i would really know ) I don't care, because I love it and it makes me happy!

Turn: I cannot comment further on what has already been said, but I will add one more word: perfect.

Working Overtime: An interesting choice for a finale. It definitely leaves you wanting more. Hooky's bassline during the bridge is one of the albums highlights and when the song ends it's what's ringing in my ears.

overall rating: 9/10

Me likee both. A fine return to form.

AJ Wells wrote: Call me old fashioned, but the only reason that I ever bought New Order records was to have the hairs lifted on the back of my neck THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE NEEDLE DOWN...

Ajw

That is precisely the reaction my neck hairs had the first time I heard Turn and every single time I've listened to it since.

The whole album is great. My opinion stays that "Jetstream" is mediocre (and the albums lamest track).

I'm sorry but I have to say the album is very patchy. Got a couple of good songs, but the judgement of history will not be kind to WFTSC, just as it is not kind to Get Ready. I only listen to Crystal, Primitive Notion and Vicious Streak regularly from that lot. Some tracks are so bad they provoke a visceral reaction whenever I hear them. I expect I'll be saying the same thing about WFTSC in two years from now. Jetstream is really crap and it's a single!

NO have transformed into a competent outfit and that is as good as they get. Gone are days when they could confidently mix brilliance side by side with abject failure. I will always, always love this band, but let's be honest about what they have become ...

It's the best album since their last one and they are in danger of making another that only barely measures up to this effort.

My take on WFTSC is that if it was by anybody other than NO we would be saying how good it was, but that we really expect better from our boys now.

WFTSC is not Technique by sure. It is better than Get Ready and Republic and it got the best programming and production than every other album (thanks John Leckie). I think that Dracula's Castle is going to be one of the best songs ever for new fans of our beloved New Order! I don't understand after all why all this arguments and questions about the best album or single though. Lets hope all that New Order are going to be all right or able or alltogether as a group or healthy or whatever to give us many many new albums! Take care all - i hope New Order to come in Greece and to see you all here!!!

I wanted to love the album, but don't, even after loads of plays..I always love NO....but think it's great that others do, I hope it turns loads on to NO. Someone mentioned the bass saves some of the songs, I agree with this....when it's up in the mix.

There's so much ace music out there, I'm still discovering I guess I'm not prepared to keep playing something over and over untill I convince myself I do like it (I'm not suggesting anyone has done that, I hasten to mention).

I don't like much of the production, too neat, unthreatening and not grainy enough. They'll always be the best for me though...It's just my opinion.

Jetstream is a decent pop song and I really like Ana's vocal unlike some of you, it's just I've never wanted it to become a single. As I've mentioned before I'm not so happy with that thought of getting "the new kids" into NO with tracks like Jetstream or Guilt. Suppose they really like them, will they ever be able to understand the meaning of Movement, for example? I don't think so. Anyways, Guilt has somehow (don't ask) grown on me. Actually the more I think the more I'm convinced we all like every NO song, it's just we skip some of them more often than the others. Guess it all depends on the mood we are in at the moment.

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: Anyways, Guilt has somehow (don't ask) grown on me.

Patrick wrote:

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: Anyways, Guilt has somehow (don't ask) grown on me.

I know Jeff would be very happy to read this too. And to be completely honest, everytime I listen to it I think of him and how he used to give it immunity every single day.

AJ Wells, in consistent fashion, makes a silly statement and then disappears. Cause his statements are usually too weak to defend to anyone. Better to just drop a bomb and then go hide.

If Guilt had come out in 1989 AJ would have loved it.

And it isn't a black and white thing, this either you are a fan of New Order and don't listen to new music, or you hate New Order but listen to new music argument.... most of us love new order, AND listen to the lastest new bands daily... cause most of us are MUSIC fans, not contrarians trying to get a cheap rise out of new new order fans.

Yeah, some songs off WftSC are mediocre, and will be forgotten. But not every new order song has been a huge success... aj, they had crap back in the past too... who remembers State, Liar, We All Stand, Times Change, Subculture, Way of Life, Guilty Partner, Paradise, etc etc.

Sure, as a psycho new order fan, knowing their history and culture, i love those songs listed above, but looking at them objectively, as aj wells supposedly expects, they are NOT the best songs ever penned....

so, we turn to WftSC, and with the exception of I Told You So and D****'s Castle, the album is solid. I Told You So is just lackluster, not memorable, not pathetic, but not anything that is going to stand out, is just boring over time. The sad castle song is just refried crap. but every good album needs one stinker to make you realize they are human....

I.E. WftSC HAS PLENTY OF EXCELLENT TRACKS AND A FEW EGGS. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NEW ORDER ALBUM.

If it had been released in the 80s, aj wells would be salivating. But it is 2005 and the older material has sentimental history attached, songs played in cars with lovers, etc... whereas WftSC is new, and is not yet part of his culture.

I remember when Technique came out, and I was leery of it, and I HATED Fine Time on first listen. But it grew on me.

I do find it hard to believe that every New Order song back in the day had aj's hairs on edge on first listen, automatic. Sure, a few songs did that, but for us folks who still enjoy life, there are tracks on WfsSC that did it as well! It makes me wonder if ANY music gets aj excited anymore, or if he just plays BLT over and over, "remembering the good old days" - then I realize how sad it is to even think about someone like that, and realize I have just wasted my time even concerning myself with him...

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: As I've mentioned before I'm not so happy with that thought of getting "the new kids" into NO with tracks like Jetstream or Guilt. Suppose they really like them, will they ever be able to understand the meaning of Movement, for example? I don't think so.

Fair point, on the other hand, I got into NO with Blue Monday & that's hardly a great indicator of LowLife, Technique, or Movement - or even of PC&L! (Can't say that I understand or appreciate Movement yet either:( ) There is no song on this album - or on ANY album which, on its own, can explain what NO is all about. Best that can be done, is to expose the 'kids' to what they like, in the hope that they will realise that the rest of the NEWorder experiance is what they NEED

Not sure if the above makes sense, but i'm not changing it now!

CuanaD wrote:

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: As I've mentioned before I'm not so happy with that thought of getting "the new kids" into NO with tracks like Jetstream or Guilt. Suppose they really like them, will they ever be able to understand the meaning of Movement, for example? I don't think so.

Fair point, on the other hand, I got into NO with Blue Monday & that's hardly a great indicator of LowLife, Technique, or Movement - or even of PC&L! (Can't say that I understand or appreciate Movement yet either:( ) There is no song on this album - or on ANY album which, on its own, can explain what NO is all about. Best that can be done, is to expose the 'kids' to what they like, in the hope that they will realise that the rest of the NEWorder experiance is what they NEED

Not sure if the above makes sense, but i'm not changing it now!

Makes perfect sense! There are still smart kids out there! :)

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote:

CuanaD wrote:

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: As I've mentioned before I'm not so happy with that thought of getting "the new kids" into NO with tracks like Jetstream or Guilt. Suppose they really like them, will they ever be able to understand the meaning of Movement, for example? I don't think so.

Fair point, on the other hand, I got into NO with Blue Monday & that's hardly a great indicator of LowLife, Technique, or Movement - or even of PC&L! (Can't say that I understand or appreciate Movement yet either:( ) There is no song on this album - or on ANY album which, on its own, can explain what NO is all about. Best that can be done, is to expose the 'kids' to what they like, in the hope that they will realise that the rest of the NEWorder experiance is what they NEED

Not sure if the above makes sense, but i'm not changing it now!

Makes perfect sense! There are still smart kids out there! :)

I'm glad - you don't know how many times i've re-read my posts to find that I must have fallen asleep in the middle of posting & just typed drivel

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild? "All it takes is 100 or so listens and you start to warm up to these clinkers!" Call me old fashioned, but the only reason that I ever bought New Order records was to have the hairs lifted on the back of my neck THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE NEEDLE DOWN... the idea of investing such a huge amount of time in trying to learn to like music that is so clearly poorly written, arranged and produced is a testament to the fantaticism of... well, fans...

OK, but then how do you explain this:

AJ Wells wrote: To those who think me a dour old man always slagging things off, I will say that I was laughing in idiot delight throughout the entire Gang Of Four show, which was totally thrilling in every way that rock music can possibly be, and more... their massive yet open sound and complete devastation of the body and mind leave nothing standing... their music may have had slightly less of an impact on me initially but I think that that is its genius... those songs leave so much space that you can occupy and it often takes years to fully understand all of the mechanisms that they describe so simply in their music and tattoo into your body with their sound...

Not to knock Gang of Four, but it seems like you've got a double standard going vis-a-vis New Order and Gang of Four...

Um I think there is a rather large difference between music which continues to resonate and grow in power and music which is DOA and only gains in the minds of a small number of fans...

It was clear from the first play that Entertainment was a great and important record, but it has picked up so much more cultural resonance over the years that its a big snowball at this point...

Oh but to get back to your point, if your read my silly posts over the decades you will see that I contradict myself REGULARLY and enjoy every moment of it...

Ajw

Patrick wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: Call me old fashioned, but the only reason that I ever bought New Order records was to have the hairs lifted on the back of my neck THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE NEEDLE DOWN...

Ajw

That is precisely the reaction my neck hairs had the first time I heard Turn and every single time I've listened to it since.

Thats the beauty of that response... it either exists or it doesnt... it doesnt come from your brain, it comes from somewhere else...

if Turn does it for you, more power to you!

No one has to listen to the new album if they don't want to

Lachlan Murdoch wrote: I'm sorry but I have to say the album is very patchy. Got a couple of good songs, but the judgement of history will not be kind to WFTSC, just as it is not kind to Get Ready. I only listen to Crystal, Primitive Notion and Vicious Streak regularly from that lot. Some tracks are so bad they provoke a visceral reaction whenever I hear them. I expect I'll be saying the same thing about WFTSC in two years from now. Jetstream is really crap and it's a single!

NO have transformed into a competent outfit and that is as good as they get. Gone are days when they could confidently mix brilliance side by side with abject failure. I will always, always love this band, but let's be honest about what they have become ...

It's the best album since their last one and they are in danger of making another that only barely measures up to this effort.

I know that visceral reaction all too well... to me, the great thing about being a New Order fan always what that you knew what you hated... you hated most of what the world offered you and you wanted it to another way... you hated paint by numbers phone it in rock music; you wanted to live your life differently and hear that expressed in music... to me the fact that this appalling music can be received as competent pop is more a failure of the listening audience than of the band... actually thats completely wrong, its the band that has lost their ability to edit themselves and to be excited by the truly new and fresh in life...

I would say that a band that doesnt stay one step ahead of their audience is finished, but then this audience is so far behind that even this shadow of its former self band could still be a half step in front... wow thats truly depressing!

Ajw

Al Jarvis wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild?

I thought the biggest turn-on for you in Oakland, the one that 'made the hairs stand up on your neck', was that ghastly and gutless pop/pap monster they now churn out which used to be called Bizarre Love Triangle in a former life.

You're not as Old Skool as you like you profess, now are you, AJ?

Um what does this post mean? You will have to translate; I'm an old man and dont think very clearly...

Are you saying that because I think that BLT is lovely and Jetstream is awful that I am... well I'm not sure what that makes me.... what does it?

Ajw

Tarbox23 wrote: AJ Wells, in consistent fashion, makes a silly statement and then disappears. Cause his statements are usually too weak to defend to anyone. Better to just drop a bomb and then go hide.

If Guilt had come out in 1989 AJ would have loved it.

And it isn't a black and white thing, this either you are a fan of New Order and don't listen to new music, or you hate New Order but listen to new music argument.... most of us love new order, AND listen to the lastest new bands daily... cause most of us are MUSIC fans, not contrarians trying to get a cheap rise out of new new order fans.

Yeah, some songs off WftSC are mediocre, and will be forgotten. But not every new order song has been a huge success... aj, they had crap back in the past too... who remembers State, Liar, We All Stand, Times Change, Subculture, Way of Life, Guilty Partner, Paradise, etc etc.

Sure, as a psycho new order fan, knowing their history and culture, i love those songs listed above, but looking at them objectively, as aj wells supposedly expects, they are NOT the best songs ever penned....

so, we turn to WftSC, and with the exception of I Told You So and D****'s Castle, the album is solid. I Told You So is just lackluster, not memorable, not pathetic, but not anything that is going to stand out, is just boring over time. The sad castle song is just refried crap. but every good album needs one stinker to make you realize they are human....

I.E. WftSC HAS PLENTY OF EXCELLENT TRACKS AND A FEW EGGS. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NEW ORDER ALBUM.

If it had been released in the 80s, aj wells would be salivating. But it is 2005 and the older material has sentimental history attached, songs played in cars with lovers, etc... whereas WftSC is new, and is not yet part of his culture.

I remember when Technique came out, and I was leery of it, and I HATED Fine Time on first listen. But it grew on me.

I do find it hard to believe that every New Order song back in the day had aj's hairs on edge on first listen, automatic. Sure, a few songs did that, but for us folks who still enjoy life, there are tracks on WfsSC that did it as well! It makes me wonder if ANY music gets aj excited anymore, or if he just plays BLT over and over, "remembering the good old days" - then I realize how sad it is to even think about someone like that, and realize I have just wasted my time even concerning myself with him...

Hey you mean because I had to work a little today that I dropped a bomb and ran? Here I am, back in your face with more of my usual wisdom... youre welcome

I dont pine for the 80s and I have written countless times how I thought that Blue Monday was garbage when I heard a test pressing in Rough Trade... I thought State was a dud; Shellshock weak and wimpy... As It Is When It Was was awful... Touched was a bad Rod Stewart cover tune... and Liar a new low up to that point... but the point was even the bad New Order songs made things interesting because the good ones were so good... now the bad songs are worse and the good songs are not enough to even get rabid fans frothing anymore... I was cringing when they were playing Run Wild and Jetstream in Oakland and when I looked around SO WAS EVERYONE ELSE... so the bar is now so low that even people with decades into projecting themselves onto the stage along with these underachievers have trouble getting past their nausea...

But then I'm trying to explain myself to someone who hated Fine Time upon release... whats the point of that? ;)

Ajw

Tarbox23 wrote: AJ Wells, in consistent fashion, makes a silly statement and then disappears. Cause his statements are usually too weak to defend to anyone. Better to just drop a bomb and then go hide.

If Guilt had come out in 1989 AJ would have loved it.

And it isn't a black and white thing, this either you are a fan of New Order and don't listen to new music, or you hate New Order but listen to new music argument.... most of us love new order, AND listen to the lastest new bands daily... cause most of us are MUSIC fans, not contrarians trying to get a cheap rise out of new new order fans.

Yeah, some songs off WftSC are mediocre, and will be forgotten. But not every new order song has been a huge success... aj, they had crap back in the past too... who remembers State, Liar, We All Stand, Times Change, Subculture, Way of Life, Guilty Partner, Paradise, etc etc.

Sure, as a psycho new order fan, knowing their history and culture, i love those songs listed above, but looking at them objectively, as aj wells supposedly expects, they are NOT the best songs ever penned....

so, we turn to WftSC, and with the exception of I Told You So and D****'s Castle, the album is solid. I Told You So is just lackluster, not memorable, not pathetic, but not anything that is going to stand out, is just boring over time. The sad castle song is just refried crap. but every good album needs one stinker to make you realize they are human....

I.E. WftSC HAS PLENTY OF EXCELLENT TRACKS AND A FEW EGGS. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NEW ORDER ALBUM.

If it had been released in the 80s, aj wells would be salivating. But it is 2005 and the older material has sentimental history attached, songs played in cars with lovers, etc... whereas WftSC is new, and is not yet part of his culture.

I remember when Technique came out, and I was leery of it, and I HATED Fine Time on first listen. But it grew on me.

I do find it hard to believe that every New Order song back in the day had aj's hairs on edge on first listen, automatic. Sure, a few songs did that, but for us folks who still enjoy life, there are tracks on WfsSC that did it as well! It makes me wonder if ANY music gets aj excited anymore, or if he just plays BLT over and over, "remembering the good old days" - then I realize how sad it is to even think about someone like that, and realize I have just wasted my time even concerning myself with him...

Hey you mean because I had to work a little today that I dropped a bomb and ran? Here I am, back in your face with more of my usual wisdom... youre welcome

I dont pine for the 80s and I have written countless times how I thought that Blue Monday was garbage when I heard a test pressing in Rough Trade... I thought State was a dud; Shellshock weak and wimpy... As It Is When It Was was awful... Touched was a bad Rod Stewart cover tune... and Liar a new low up to that point... but the point was even the bad New Order songs made things interesting because the good ones were so good... now the bad songs are worse and the good songs are not enough to even get rabid fans frothing anymore... I was cringing when they were playing Run Wild and Jetstream in Oakland and when I looked around SO WAS EVERYONE ELSE... so the bar is now so low that even people with decades into projecting themselves onto the stage along with these underachievers have trouble getting past their nausea...

But then I'm trying to explain myself to someone who hated Fine Time upon release... whats the point of that? ;)

Ajw

AJ Wells wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild?

I thought the biggest turn-on for you in Oakland, the one that 'made the hairs stand up on your neck', was that ghastly and gutless pop/pap monster they now churn out which used to be called Bizarre Love Triangle in a former life.

You're not as Old Skool as you like you profess, now are you, AJ?

Um what does this post mean? You will have to translate; I'm an old man and dont think very clearly...

Are you saying that because I think that BLT is lovely and Jetstream is awful that I am... well I'm not sure what that makes me.... what does it?

Ajw

It means you have a double standard when it comes to pop shit that New Order put out. Just because you have an emotional investment in BLT from years of listening to it (which you don't have for Jetstream), doesn't mean a thing. I happen to think Jetstream was a cracking track live in Oakland, not BLT the boring. Now, if you had pointy hairs from hearing a song like Senses live, then maybe I'd respect your opinion.

I got over my fear of appearing shallow by liking poppy music just a few years ago. These days i'm more inclined to dislike a song off tha bat if it sounds as if its self-consciously artsy or meandering rather than imminently catchy. This is how I learned to like Jetstream.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

AJ Wells wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: Isnt it amazing how fans can justify such ghastly songs as Jetstream and Run Wild?

I thought the biggest turn-on for you in Oakland, the one that 'made the hairs stand up on your neck', was that ghastly and gutless pop/pap monster they now churn out which used to be called Bizarre Love Triangle in a former life.

You're not as Old Skool as you like you profess, now are you, AJ?

Um what does this post mean? You will have to translate; I'm an old man and dont think very clearly...

Are you saying that because I think that BLT is lovely and Jetstream is awful that I am... well I'm not sure what that makes me.... what does it?

Ajw

It means you have a double standard when it comes to pop shit that New Order put out. Just because you have an emotional investment in BLT from years of listening to it (which you don't have for Jetstream), doesn't mean a thing. I happen to think Jetstream was a cracking track live in Oakland, not BLT the boring. Now, if you had pointy hairs from hearing a song like Senses live, then maybe I'd respect your opinion.

Actually I have zero emotional investment in BLT... it delighted me upon first listen and continues to... its not a nostalgia experience... as with all great music, the thing I love about it is that it always sounds like the first time you are hearing it... its not my memory of the music that I love... its the music...

Oh I had pointy hairs with much of Movement... as with Procession, Mesh, Cries and Whispers and much of the early stuff... it was all a hair standy affair to my ears and body...

If I was nostalgic I would be softening up to Get Ready by now wouldnt I? Even the lauded Crystal is a grinding bore in my book...

I know it makes it easier to write me off as a nostalgic, but actually nothing could be further from the truth... I would always rather hear something new than something old, but I would never prefer hearing something awful to something sublime...

Ajw

AJ, you are entitled to your opinion. it's great that NO can still inspire debate these days.

i want all this talk of hairs standing up to be put to bed or at least documented with audio and video. the challenge is to put on a song you claim still makes the hairs stand up and film the reaction while the song is playing. i understand the use of the phrase as hyperbole to convey emotion but it's getting beaten into the ground about now and it needs to stop. the challenge is open to everyone. those who prove hairs stand up while listening to certain songs can make the claim, others will have to use other descriptive terms to explain their emotions.

in nyc, new order offered up far more brilliant (sorry biznotic) *hair-raising* sonic ecstacy with krafty and hey now, jetstream, and wftsc, (i.e. their newer material)

than with their sad reintepretation of Bizarre Love Triangle.

yes, BLT is so much better on Brotherhood. the original new order mix....

(how hard would that version have been to summon up? I worry about who is reprogramming this stuff for them...)

edit: i get concerned when i agree with jarvis! :)

Chris Nash wrote: even though it included the incredibly weak 'Run Wild' - New Order's poorest track in my opinion.

OH MY GOD moderators please ban him!!!!

Man, thats the best song on GR, right after SLY.

Isamu wrote:

Chris Nash wrote: even though it included the incredibly weak 'Run Wild' - New Order's poorest track in my opinion.

OH MY GOD moderators please ban him!!!!

Man, thats the best song on GR, right after SLY.

I agree,'Run Wild' is a cracking song. Like most albums on first playing there will be tracks that you instantly take to in my case 'Turn','Krafty','WFTSC' but after a few more plays I liked all the songs.

Jetstream is an attempt to draw more people into listening to NO (no harm in that)

[orange]MA[/orange]YA wrote: Actually the more I think the more I'm convinced we all like every NO song, it's just we skip some of them more often than the others. Guess it all depends on the mood we are in at the moment.

I have only come close to pressing the skip button on one NO track - 'Rock The Shack'

I had to take Movement out of my CD player in the car to listen to Waiting the first time. I have nearly always hated New Order albums on first, and often second, listenings so I was willing to give it a go. Twenty plays later I am happy to say it is a good listen but I fear the things I like the best are the tried and tested riffs and beats which are used so much better on earlier albums. It's as if the songs themselves have little to them but add the NO feel and they pass. I'd still listen to Run or Perfect Kiss or Brotherhood anytime over Waiting but who knows - in 25 years time I might be listening to it and dreading having to put some new shit in there.

People who have never heard of NO (they exist!) seem to love it - I am now a Waiting borrowing service for the kids I teach.... go figure.

Jeff

Chris Nash wrote:

If I had to put the albums in order of how much I enjoy them, at the moment it would be:

Movement LowLife Get Ready Brotherhood Power, Corruption & Lies WFTSC Republic Technique

It'll change tomorrow though...

Good topic for a new thread, huh?