The Huntsman Leaves the Building ...

Hello to all my dear friends of the earth, unfortunately my existence on the OrderLine has met an untimely demise. Without any notification 'Huntsman' (that's me that is, or was) has been awfully renamed 'Banned Member' and cast off the site for good nails. I can no longer 'log-on' as my password, plain clothes and empty crisp packets have been tragically removed and thrown into the fiery skip of doom for no apparent reason.

The few threads I last made an appearance in were these:

'What is there in all this Joy Division? I'll tell ...' 'Atmosphere' and '1000.....'

Perhaps my comments in the first of the above threads were the final nail in my own Pringles tube type coffin arena. Harsh, to say the least. 'Banned Member' indeed, makes me feel a bit soiled.

Well I've quickly signed in as a new member just to relay that I'm a bit confused by my own removal and that I would never go without saying ta-ra! I guess the Web Fettlers will soon work out the link between my new name and the old one and boot me off again for mentioning either eggs or vegetables.

My epitaph:

'I was Robbed!'

Farewell to all ... the Huntsman loves you! ... never forget it!

Do you mean to say you really have been shown the door Hunts. Or is it just that your login does'nt work no more?

Well Muff firstly someone changed my name to 'Banned Member', which I thought was a bit oddball, then that was it! ... no more log-ins for me.

When I'm detected as H II I'll be banished once again.

Going to break my work silence briefly . Is this really the case Huntsman - if it is, it really is going to be the last time I post here. Do the webmasters really want a load of dull Morris Fan clones spouting tosh which we've all read somewhere else before? I can only assume you've got the boot coz of your criticism on that Joy Div thread

Oh dear. I hate controversy and conflict. However, I would have to agree with Mr. Briggs that if this action is not reversed I think we should all depart.

Makes me warm inside fellas, thanks it means a lot. Don't let me influence a mass exodus of untold proportions here, that was not my intention. I just wanted to say bye properly.

I am still confused, imagine someone had changed your name to 'Banned Member' and cancelled your log-in ... I think subtlety went out the window.

Can you imagine how annoyed I am after all the hard work I attempted for the cause?

I'm with Snake and G-man on this Hunts. If this is'nt just Seb the webmaster having a giggle at your expense then it's toodle-oo from me too!

This is getting weird...

Especially since you weren't even posting much lately, Huntsy...

I sincerely hope I'm not reading the last of you on this site but, anyway, we'll keep in touch by email...

Yes, Huntsy, I think you have behaved with admirable restraint now and in some prior similar incidents.

My only prior significant experience with a message board (devoted to a wholly unrelated subject) ended by my choice after a somewhat similar manifestation of censorship.

If it was (or is) a gag by Sebsy the Web Fettler then its certainly got me! ... banning me from the site and changing my name is a bit naughty as surely by now he knows I never mean any harm. In the threadbare that was locked into oblivion I also attempted to 'ease the tension' like when a new Pringles tube is prized open to that glorious 'popping' sound that makes a grown man weak at the knee caps.

Thing is, what's he going to say, get stuffed Huntsman you spoke slightly out of turn!? ... I didn't even fucking swear.

Still, I'll always know that people from other countries and dimensions also appreciated 'Throw Me a Bottle' in a similar way.

Expect this threadbare to be locked at any second when Sebsy gets out of the sack!

Rooster, Patty, Smuffler, Snake Charmer and the gang, you are all very good eggs.

... maybe its because he couldn't think of another name for anyone reaching 2,000 posts!? ... 'Member with Terrible Indigestion' was surely the answer?

Well, Huntsy, I hope this can be resolved in a friendly way, but if not, thanks to you and to the many other wonderful people I've met here! It's been a very fine experience to get to know you and I will never forget it.

I've just read your comments in the JD thread Hunts and can't see for the life of me what would cause you to be booted out especially having also read some of the shit posted after you had your say. It seems to me that there are one or two people here intent on stirring up ill feeling between the many fettlers who fettle on this good ship, Michael McDermott being one and possibly Morris Fan too. Both have made stupid, unconstructive comments lately, though MF doesn't seem to want to back up what he said choosing instead to deny he meant anything by it. It's little over a week since Seb himself spoke of renaming a smilie after you and now this. What will be next??

Originally posted by Muffy I'm with Snake and G-man on this Hunts. If this is'nt just Seb the webmaster having a giggle at your expense then it's toodle-oo from me too!

And me, I swear it.

Originally posted by Muffy I've just read your comments in the JD thread Hunts and can't see for the life of me what would cause you to be booted out especially having also read some of the shit posted after you had your say. It seems to me that there are one or two people here intent on stirring up ill feeling between the many fettlers who fettle on this good ship, Michael McDermott being one and possibly Morris Fan too. Both have made stupid, unconstructive comments lately, though MF doesn't seem to want to back up what he said choosing instead to deny he meant anything by it. It's little over a week since Seb himself spoke of renaming a smilie after you and now this. What will be next??

If anyone should go, it should be McDermott who, after getting his yellow card, then stated that he stood by his original postings, even expressing that he passionately believed in what he had said. This posting of mine may not be of the required 27,464 words length, may not mention Joy Division in quasi-romantic student essay terms, and may not be instantly interchangeable with the works of Turmel or even Mel C, but it is sincere and equally as valid. As a site owner and message board moderator myself, I am acutely aware of the problems faced by people who occasionally slip into just a tad too much vernacular. A wave of a yellow card and threat of further sanctions usually does the trick. The real problems are those who perpetuate hate and bigotry. It is they we should be looking to eradicate, not those who seek to entertain with witty and irreverant comment, they that are the lifeblood of any online community. Of course, we could all go around in our trenchcoats and try to be Curtis et al, if that is what floats our boat. I know which side of the fence I would rather be, and if that makes me a member of the growing band of disillusioned outcasts, so be it.

What the hell happened to this forum?? Its all arguments, banned members and very little talk about a little thing called NEW ORDER! isn't that we are all here for??

If Huntsman leaves I'll die.... i was living on his left over pringles.

Something fishy is going on....our esteemed webmaster no longer has a name.

I think I'll be keeping quiet from now on as well, being one of those "working class football hooligans" that only posts one-liners...

Hey Tim, I hope you don't think i'm tarring you with the same brush as the two offending articles i've named. You are one of the 'lifeblood' members of this forum in my eyes, witty, articulate, and clearly intelligent. It's fettlers like you, Hunts, Shug, Liv, Texan name changer, Snake, Tabsy etc. etc. that make this site so entertaining. God forbid any of us should be booted of the board for not mentioning our heroes often enough when there are bigots afoot spouting their hate filled diatribe at every opportunity!

Originally posted by Muffy Hey Tim, I hope you don't think i'm tarring you with the same brush as the two offending articles i've named. You are one of the 'lifeblood' members of this forum in my eyes, witty, articulate, and clearly intelligent. It's fettlers like you, Hunts, Shug, Liv, Texan name changer, Snake, Tabsy etc. etc. that make this site so entertaining. God forbid any of us should be booted of the board for not mentioning our heroes often enough when there are bigots afoot spouting their hate filled diatribe at every opportunity!

No mate, I didn't !! :) I was trying to point out the real offenders in all this, namely Bogot of Plano, Tx.....

It's the cigar smoke from your signature smiley, obviously.

My dear Nigel,

I'm not quite sure what a "bogot" is, but coming from the egalitarian paradise where you live, it must be something sweet.

xxxx oooo

Your cyber pal,

T U A

Originally posted by Michael McDermott My dear Nigel,I'm not quite sure what a "bogot" is, but coming from the egalitarian paradise where you live, it must be something sweet. xxxx ooooYour cyber pal,T U A

It's interesting how you seem to use the term 'egalitarian' as if it were not something to be held dear or valued. You are a bigot sir and the sooner you piss off the better!

.........and a trouble maker!!

I wish someone would kick him out. He's about as popular as that Jerry bloke was.

To focus on the original subject of this thread, and after I read your latest interventions, Hunts, I CANNOT FIGURE OUT what the fuck you wrote here to be thrown away in such an ugly manner.

I sincerely hope this is an error from our webmaster, but just in case it's not, then Seb & Nic, please consider I'm leaving this board, AND REMOVE ALL MATERIAL CONCERNING MY POSTINGS, PROFILES, IMAGES, SIGNATURES and so on from this server.. (I know there were not so many, but I don't want anything left from any of my contributions since I'm not there anymore)

But I DO hope it IS an error :) - thx.

Dear Muffy,

"It's interesting how you seem to use the term 'egalitarian' as if it were not something to be held dear or valued. You are a bigot sir and the sooner you piss off the better!"

Let me ask you a civil question. If you were personally attacked (on this board or otherwise), how would you respond? Or more to the point, how would you respond to attacks that simply were not true?

The term "bigot" has been thrown in my direction like so many venom dipped daggers. And all because of the content of one over-the-top posting.

As I learned (the hard way) the terms "frog" and "Frenchy" are considered racist by folks on your side of the pond. I all honesty, I DIDN'T know that was the case. I can assure you that it is NOT the case in Plano, in Texas, or in the United States.

Now, to address "egalitarianism". The reason I throw that term about with such sarcasam is because the liberal left has coopted it for themselves and distorted it to such an extent as to have rendered it useless.

I do not practice "moral relativism". I do not indulge in "situational ethics". The is no such thing as "cultural pluralism". I believe there is a (R)ight and (W)rong. I was Wrong to have ripped the French people the way I did.

As far as being a "trouble maker" , I earned it for the thread I started. However, I will not sit still and be the victim of cyber drive-bys.

Let me say one more thing. And, this should be taken with all due respect. It seems that most of the posters here respect diversity, inclusion and yes, egalitarianism. From my short time here though, it appears, at times, to be a one way street. I think that one of the webmasters even addressed this attitude in the latest JD thread.

I have no quarrel with anyone on this board and I won't cry to the webmasters when attacked. But, I will defend myself.

I'm willing to move on if y'all are. Just lay off the "bigot" smack. Really, will you place that label on me after ONE posting using terms that I didn't know were considered "racist"?

T U A

I don't know, i spend xmas at the out-laws and all breaks loose !!!! Who is Mikey Mouse McDermott ?????? (anyone want to place a bet its the lovely Jamie Oliver extracting his revenge). I'm with you Hunter, if Sebs means what he says he obviously has very different ideas for the site than the rest of us.

ps

whats happened to Marty in my absence ???

pps

nice to your still around Muffy :)

If Huntsman's out, I'm out. Simple as that!

Personnally, I've had experiance with message boards being mucked up by people claiming to have valuable things to say, then lashing out at those who disagree. Morris Fan, i hereby apologize for any insults i've directed your way, sometimes they were in jest (like all the Paul Morley comments), but you don't have the luxery of hearing my tone when I say it (as in real life), so i'm sure I came off as more than harsh. Whatever ramblings you feel posessed to post, I will read thru and thru before saying anything. You're alright by me

Mr McD, on the other hand, you have done little or nothing in the way of adding to the conversation on the forum, so i can't see why anyone would allow you to continue. Maybe seb thought it'd be fun to have a little controversy, i don't know. The point is, you've been abrasive and hardline since your initial query about the French. It's one thing to be offended by something you hear that seems uncalled for, but when you responded in your equally offensive matter, well, you got what you paid for.

Seb, Huntsy doesn't do anything more than say what he thinks. He's a valued member of this community, as you can plainly see. Keep Huntsy on, otherwise me and a lot more regulars might start looking for a new home.

Taboo #7,

"Mr McD, on the other hand, you have done little or nothing in the way of adding to the conversation on the forum, so i can't see why anyone would allow you to continue. Maybe seb thought it'd be fun to have a little controversy, i don't know. The point is, you've been abrasive and hardline since your initial query about the French. It's one thing to be offended by something you hear that seems uncalled for, but when you responded in your equally offensive matter, well, you got what you paid for."

It's interesting to have myself seen as the standard bearer for someone who should be "booted off" this board. I'm not quiet sure what Huntsman did to be banned and it's obvious that he's got good friends here.

Now, seeing as how I DON'T ;) , let me speak a little about my "abrasive and hardline" attitude to the responses directed at me and the cyber drive-bys that I stumble upon. I will defend my principles and myself in general. Really Taboo #7, some of the profanity that's been directed my way in the guise of "righteous indignation" would start a fist fight in your town and in mine (I ran accross some very interesting derivations of my surname). Not much constructive criticism was to be found.

But hey, if folks want to continue with the broadsides, that's fine. I'm a big boy.

As I said, I'm through with the anger and have appologized for ripping the French people.

Late. Peace out. See ya, wouldn't wanna.......you know the rest.

T U A

You keep saying you're going, but you keep coming back.....

Well, Mr McD, I respect your right to have an opinion, and while I disagree with it, to silence you for simply stating an opinion would be letting the terrorists win. HOWEVER, you have shown in your repeated replies to anyone who disagrees with you a total lack of tact and good will. While some of the things said early on may have been too harsh, by now it seems fitting.

Maybe you're not a rascist after all, it could be that you were just having a bad day and decided to release some tension in a healthy manner. At any rate, if you'd have said "oops, my bad. Not all French support Le Monde", things might have been okay. After all, do you want foreigners to think all Americans read is National Review? Generalizations aren't fair to anyone, and by lumping the whole of France in with Le Monde you opened this can of worms which you have so far proven unable to close. I'm sick of bickering with you, so this is probably the last time I respond to your actions. Good day, sir!

Okay, you did apologize, I didn't see that until after posting my response.

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > As I said, I'm through with the anger and have appologized for ripping the French people. >

Woah! Don't apologise for ripping the French! They very kindly pay my ridiculous wages but it doesn't hurt if there's a little cross-nation banter in the workplace. Agincourt, an' all that. Excellent people to get drunk with as the whole nation seems to have missed the drinking gene, and gets hammered at the very smell of a lager shandy. God knows how those b*ggers ever won the World Cup, none of sadly seem to have any interest in the sport! Gits.

Oh, Jarvoman, not you too! And it's Azincourt, not Agincourt... :p

WOW! This forum is getting stuffy. I would like to know the reason Huntsy has been banned from here, before I leave this sight. Since I've been here, I think I have siad worse stuff then he has. Even though I say most in jest, actually all of the things that are questionable. I hope the people of this forum think kindley of me, and know this to be true. I think MF was totally out of line in his posting of JD described here. That's my first opinion of this matter since sitting back and reading all this. I feel if he would have left his thoughts of the Martin Grey, and his attacks towards the friends he has, out. He wouldn't have gotten his hair ruffed up. Mf, you say you didn't mean any ill will towards anyone, but what you wrote here in this forum, reads really offensive to me, this coming from someone who supposedly took his time and wrote the posting 2 days before posting it on this forum. Mr. Mcdermot ( I know I spelled it wrong, Sorry.) I feel that his first post of the french was in jest, but his postings leading up to it, built his character to be taken in a bad way. Becuase of this, it was construde as offensive. The postings that I had writen on that thread were in response to the miserable experience I had in France, thank god I finished that trip in England! OUtside of what I have read, I feel that everyone in this community are good people. I have never once, have taken a jab at me, as an act of evil will. I hope that what I have said in the past is taken that way to. I would hope that everyone would let this dog lay adn let it go to sleep. Huntsy should be let back in. I truly think that someone hacked into the website and did this, I hope. :evil2: I hate walking on eggshells, and this is the road that this forum is going into. But all of you can take potshots at me, because I think all of you as good peoples, and I never take it personaly. Besides, like my Father says," The only people that should have any say in your world is your family and good friends, who gives a shit what other people say, they don't know you." So my point is, ignore the people who post on the forum that offend you, adn they will dissappear. That's one good thing about the internet you don't have to look at tham in the face everyday. So tune them out. Love ya guys, just as friends though, cause I'm already taken. :D

My main problem with the MF JD posting was the tone..'I'll tell you....'etc like that opinion was more valid than any other.

I personally think the whole Huntsman thing is one of making an example - whther the banning is upheld or not. And that is wrong.

This place has become a fucking disgrace recently... Cant beleive something that lots of us (we know who we are!) have worked at to build up ito a forum where people REALLY do want to visit, if falling apart around us. Huntsman getting banned? Its a Fucking disgrace, as is the case of long standing members getting trashed by people who flutter in everynow and then and even by the webmasters.

If Hunsty has been banned, then I'm off too. If the people who helped make this board what it is are getting slagged, then in the words of Cartman, "Screw you guys, Im going home"

Liv

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > As I said, I'm through with the anger and have appologized for ripping the French people. >

Woah! Don't apologise for ripping the French! They very kindly pay my ridiculous wages but it doesn't hurt if there's a little cross-nation banter in the workplace. Agincourt, an' all that. Excellent people to get drunk with as the whole nation seems to have missed the drinking gene, and gets hammered at the very smell of a lager shandy. God knows how those b*ggers ever won the World Cup, none of sadly seem to have any interest in the sport! Gits.

Drugging Ronaldo I think mate !!

Originally posted by Michael McDermott Taboo #7,"Mr McD, on the other hand, you have done little or nothing in the way of adding to the conversation on the forum, so i can't see why anyone would allow you to continue. Maybe seb thought it'd be fun to have a little controversy, i don't know. The point is, you've been abrasive and hardline since your initial query about the French. It's one thing to be offended by something you hear that seems uncalled for, but when you responded in your equally offensive matter, well, you got what you paid for."It's interesting to have myself seen as the standard bearer for someone who should be "booted off" this board. I'm not quiet sure what Huntsman did to be banned and it's obvious that he's got good friends here.Now, seeing as how I DON'T ;) , let me speak a little about my "abrasive and hardline" attitude to the responses directed at me and the cyber drive-bys that I stumble upon. I will defend my principles and myself in general. Really Taboo #7, some of the profanity that's been directed my way in the guise of "righteous indignation" would start a fist fight in your town and in mine (I ran accross some very interesting derivations of my surname). Not much constructive criticism was to be found. But hey, if folks want to continue with the broadsides, that's fine. I'm a big boy.As I said, I'm through with the anger and have appologized for ripping the French people. Late. Peace out. See ya, wouldn't wanna.......you know the rest.T U A

Let he who is without spelling aberrations cast the first stone......and you're looking down the barrel of a D minus old bean.

In the absence of new posts from Huntsman or Huntsman II, it seems to me that all those who objected to this action should act on their vows and stop posting.

I'm still hanging on P!!! ... don't be hasty.

Couldn't comment last night because at home all of my old settings, obviously, are now defunct. No reply from Sebsy about why he gave me the boot, which is a disappointment. After reading he and Nicky the Blank have put the site up for sale its a certainty he's become jaded here. I would have thought a polite way to go would not be to boot me off for a start without any reason and not call anyone a twat, which he did late yesterday afternoon. I find both things humorous but seems a bit naughty after we have given loads of support.

Thing is, I never entered into the threadbare which became a collective anomaly until the very end just to try and calm things down ... so why he has picked on me is a complete mystery. I can only now think he's been wanting to do it for a while, bless him.

Patty I've been itching to mention to you (in response) that Ian Curtis actually did use a footpedal effects unit (albeit quite crude) which dropped his vocal tone by 3 semitones, thus, making it deeper, longer and more of a drawl. It was a well known fact and on one JD song in particular you it is audible by about 90 miles an hour. I can't remember which one it is but you can hear Curtis' original vocal recording feint with the FX unit kicking in and dropping the tone lower.

Interesting stuff, the stuff of legends.

II

HIIso4 are you saying Seb called you a twat yesterday aftrenoon or that, that's when he put the site up for sale?

... no, he didn't call me a Turnip, check the 'Member of....' threadbare for the Turnip incident. Don't know whats come over the bloke, perhaps he dropped a Ginger Snap into a cup of overly hot tea and became uncontrollably distressed? ... mmm, no maybe it was a Bourbon.

II

Thanks for the message, Huntsy.

I'm not sure what to say about this whole situation, and some of the things I might say are better left unsaid. I will say, however, that I wouldn't want to have the responsibility of running a place like this.

On the subject of Ian Curtis's vocals, can you give a non-musician a sense of how much three semi-tones is? What really interested me was how the knowledge that what you hear on the recordings is not his "real" voice affects your appreciation of the vocals? As I've said before, I didn't care for them even before finding out that they were artificially deepened, and in fact it was the deepness I didn't like, so I'm curious to hear your views as someone who likes the deepness and other qualities that might not be there in his real voice.

Checked the time and date of the "twat" comment, Huntso; it was late Monday evening, EST, presumably contemporaneous with the actions taken toward you.

Your talking subtle here Patty, so your suggestion that the JD recordings are, in a sense, false are perhaps over the top of the building. Play the layperson a Curtis vocal without the deepening effect and with, 9 times out of 8 they won't notice any difference whatsoever. Play it to a New Order or JD fan and they'll analyze this starring 'Robert DeKnee Capper'.

There are 12 notes in a scale which forms one octave. That's it! ... then musically you can go up and down octaves however you like bearing in mind that too high or too low will be filthy and should be restricted to only the finest musicians like Rachmaninov or Maria Careless. A New Order or JD song will be slap bang in the middle of the 12 notes, in the middle of the octave range (typically from 1 to 7, 7 being like a bird tweeting through a helium balloon, and 1 being a sub-bass woofer crunching a sound only a whale can decipher).

Ian's box of tricks gets plugged in and his setting was usually set to trickle down a few semitones from the middle of the whole musical universe. As I say, we're talking subtle. If the 12 notes form the octave, then Ian starts in the middle and the box deepens his voice by a few half-notes, i.e. semi-tones. If he were to drop his vocal by octaves, it would sound like a space effect, i.e. too crazy for music ... imagine a Kraftwerk song noise beeping away, that kind of thing. Actually, he did use the box to drop by 2 or 3 octaves in one song (which again I forget the name of) and it sounded okay but only beacuse the producer had treated it like an effect so treating the sound accordingly.

So anyway, middle of the range, dropping the vocal by a few half notes so it becomes slightly lower than the middle of the middle of the musical world.

Basic terms P, I'm sure you'll have gathered.

II

Originally posted by Patrick Checked the time and date of the "twat" comment, Huntso; it was late Monday evening, EST, presumably contemporaneous with the actions taken toward you.

Thing is P, even armed with this information I think that all we can gather is that in general, his last week has been a bit bonkers.

II

Thanks again, Huntsy; I'm beginning to think the only way to satisfy myself on the factual question of how much the vocals were deepened is to try to hear some recording of his voice without the effect. As I mentioned elsewhere, there's a current American group called Lifehouse where they do a deepening to the singer's voice; you listen to the singer doing interviews and he sounds totally different.

I think the timing of the "twat" comment supports your point.

Fucking hell guys, what's all gotten in to you??? I was not able to post or even visit this site yesterday and things are going completely out of hand and i don't have a ****clue what its all about.... Just be a bit more tolerant i say. I know i sometimes talk a lot crap on my posts and that might not be apreciated by everyone, but don't we all!!!! As long as we don't personally attack each other , i think we can say what we want to say (of course to a certain degree: no racist shit or reilous fanatics and stuff like that) Whenever somebody feels offended by any language used i think there is always the will for either excuses or explanation. IMHO there is already enough shit happening on our planet, and this Forum has always entertained me, given me valuable information and the opportunity to talk with interesting people from allover about not only New Order. So please keep it that way.Goddammit. What the hell am i supposed to do this summer,eh, Holland not worldcupping and all:Visit this site of course.

Cheers and i wish you all wisdom and humor!

If you go back to the Warsaw recordings (where I'm assuming the foot pedal was not in use then), and fast forward from, say The Drawback to Shadowplay, there IS a distinct difference in tone. Ian's voice seems a little less formed on those recordings, but on the UP and Closer he suddenly seems much more baritone. I thought you were saying that it was a much more dramatic drop than what Huntsy described, and thus a false voice, but I am relieved to admit that, while there is a difference due to the alternation, it's so unnoticable overall.

I meant to suggest going to Shadowplay on UP, not the RCA album (whcih I was referncing for the Drawback). My bad....

Tabsy, I was not describing a difference I personally have heard. I have only heard the familiar JD voice. I was saying I thought people here had said that his natural voice was not the same as the voice on the recordings, but that it was artificially deepened. I would very much like to be able to hear the difference.

Somewhere in amongst all the pretentious shite between the relevant bits in that Mark Johnson book "An Ideal For Living", there are some serious technical bits about the band and various devices/systems used. In there is a very good piece about the use of varispeed and harmonisers to alter Ian's voice for live and recorded performance. Hope this clears it up :)