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I know its not exactly an original thread but can somebody pinpoint the reason why New Order can be fantastic live at some concerts and bumbling-bum note-schoolboy error prone at other concerts?
I dont know if its that they just dont care sometimes, have had too much substances, are hacked off with one another, hacked off with personal lives or hacked off with rubbish roadies (who cant even tune a guitar)!
Or are they only brilliant when they get paid upfront?
NO Regret wrote: I know its not exactly an original thread but can somebody pinpoint the reason why New Order can be fantastic live at some concerts and bumbling-bum note-schoolboy error prone at other concerts?
I dont know if its that they just dont care sometimes, have had too much substances, are hacked off with one another, hacked off with personal lives or hacked off with rubbish roadies (who cant even tune a guitar)!
Or are they only brilliant when they get paid upfront?
I'd always think its in the 'hacked off' area. Being too out of it has sometimes made them better ;) and not caring seems to actually help! I think, the more relaxed they are the more brilliant they are - none of us really care if the guitar isnt tuned perfect, or the mix isnt quite right, but if the band look like they aren't into it then we aren't either. If Bernard shouts the lyrics & whistles & dances all the way; while Hooky poses his heart out & tells us to f-off & Steve beats the shite out of them drums - then we'll be dancing & shouting like there's no tomorrow
I think you'll have to give examples of where you think they've been a HIT, or a MISS, cos one person's decent gig is always gonna be a complete mare for another.
Tracklisting would help for me: if we got Age of Consent, Ceremony and EGG anywhere next weekend then I'm a happy man. I am so easily bought!
One gig I remember them being slated at in the 80's was the 'moody' Oxford Apollo gig in 86 (though I bet a lot of people would kill for a gig like that these days). The reviews of that gig were awful, yet I was sat up in the front of the circle (I had a dislocated shoulder) and when they kicked in 'Ceremony' I swear it looked like a fcuking riot was going on below me in the stalls. The whole place went up, just a surging sea of bodies. Fantastic just sitting watching that, yet so strange to look back on reviews of that one saying how awful New Order were on that occasion. I thought they were sublime!
Im ashamed to say that Im not a hardcore New Order gigger. Ive only seen Electronic once in 1991 and New Order once in 2002 (both excellent). But I have numerous live recordings and DVDs.
Reading 1998 is pretty sublime. So was Montreoux Jazz Fest of 1993 and Academy 1986. And they were excellent at Finsbury Park 2002 and Big Day Out. But the BBC Glastonbury 1997 CD is terrible, as was Regret live on TFI and those Canal recordings.
I would be interested to hear what people thought were the best and worst New Order gig.
I think all depends on how much you have to drink before hand, and whether the crowd are still young enough to jump up and down to Temptation etc..
NO Regret wrote: Reading 1998 is pretty sublime. So was Montreoux Jazz Fest of 1993 and Academy 1986. And they were excellent at Finsbury Park 2002 and Big Day Out. But the BBC Glastonbury 1997 CD is terrible, as was Regret live on TFI and those Canal recordings.
But surely you can see the audience footage from both, say, Glastonbury, and the Montreaux Jazz Festival and see that at the Montreaux Jazz Festival people are just sat down watching, with one or two dancing on the spot, but at Glastonbury there's a whole crowd surging?! So I know which gig I'd prefer. Plus the Glastonbury gig has an INFINITELY better setlist (Ceremony, Sunrise, Consent, Subculture).
It's horses for courses.
I've seen New Order do roughly the same set 8 times this year, and I can tell you straight off which gigs I thought were hot, and which were not and it ain't really down to the fact the band shone, or whatever.
Shame about the '87 BBC CD. All the sound sounds great, probably the best quality live recording, but Bernard let it down with the vocals. He was really out of it that night.
The BBC mix was crap, I think it was broadcast live or soon after and wasn't mixed at a later date, this only emphasised the bad points. Get hold of a bootleg, you'll find the sound much better, it was an excellent gig. There are better live recordings, the radio broadcast of Gmex 86 for example.
Talking about the ideal set list and the current greatest hits package, its ironic that apart from everything else that went on then, I remember being a tad disappointed after Wembley 87 that we didn't get the full on greatest hits package . I think it was their first UK gig after Substance and instead we got
Touched by the Hand of God, Ceremony, Weirdo, True Faith, Bizarre Love Triangle, Every Little Counts, Love Vigilantes, Subculture, Face Up, Temptation, The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday, Love Will Tear Us Apart, Sister Ray
Now I could only dream of that set list but at the time I wanted (and was expecting) EGG, Procession etc and no album tracks.
Jarvo sums it up pretty well.
Its about situations,memories,venues,pre-gig,company.
Remember walking out of Sheff City Hall and Bradford St Georges Hall thinking how shat they were. The next person might have had the time of their life..( Although I truly doubt that would be possible at Sheff ) ;)
Although I'm hardly a seasoned NO gig-goer (I've only seen them twice), it was interesting to see that they were a bit flat at the Melbourne BDO, and then played a blinder 2 days later at the Metro.
Al's pretty much summed it up - but what category does the 87 Academy gig fall into (ie. the Academy vid)? I revisited this video the other day, there are some duff moments on that one - Barn appears pretty much off his face on god knows what (lot's of curved-arm pointing and gurning going on - and even a fleeting glimpse of the 'behind guitar dance' that has evolved since). However, the crowd looks appreciative, so maybe the vid doesn't do it justice. Was anyone here in attendace for this gig?
CTB
Yes, it was mental. For anyone unfamiliar with Brixton Academy it has a nice slope down to the stage helping to create an atmosphere. New order were on in the middle of a mixed line-up. Whether it was that or something else but when New Order started up with TBTHOG much of the New Order crowd were towards the back, so in the following couple of minutes it was all change round at the front with quite a few frightened looking people about. After that it was crazy to the finish, thought I'd take a breather, DNE? no I won't. Best gig I've ever seen, by anyone.
Hyde Park will be my seventh time to see them live (I think...drink makes my memory hazy). I love the fact they are so unpredictable live and you never know what you'll get really or to what standard.
They're the only band I know that celebrate that sort of amateurism live; the ability to be brilliant and terrible during the same gig and sometimes the same song!
Top night: G-Mex in 88 with the whole place just going nuts, lasers, the Mondays, ACR etc. For this Londoner to see them on their home patch was brilliant and I felt priviledged.
Reading '93 was a low point because it seemed so final but they still delivered the goods, even though it would seem they loathed each other by this time.
Aint read a word the rest of you have posted, not cos I'm a twat ( tho I am ) but cos I got a blinding headache.
But I can type without looking at the accursed monitor.
they are hit and miss because they are geniuses, and genius cannot be turned on and off on command.
Also they are hit and miss because their music comes from within. Meaning that when they are enjoying it they rule, and when things go badly or they are just not in the mood, they are gonna blow goats. Classical types and pop puppets don't have that problem because the music is not theirs, or not from WITHIN them.
Isnt the reason why theyre a bit hit and miss live, something to do with the Punk attitude of 'anybody can have a go" Ive seen NO order loads of times, with the later gigs being a bit too polished. I preferred them when they sounded a bit rougher around the edges. But these days ticket prices arent cheap, so perhaps some sort of quality control comes into it.
The classical bods/pop puppets idea is interesting. I'd never really considered that much before. Classical music makes big demands on technique and virtuosity whereas pop has always favoured the opposite (a bloke with a few chords and a tune etc).
It could be that they've been playing together for so long now that they've all tightened up/polished up by some sort of natural osmosis, although I long for them to fcuk up big time like in the past. They make a totally sublime racket and that used to be enhanced live by the premise that it frequently could and often did go badly wrong with something breaking down, Bernard or someone out of tune/time and him forgetting the words.
Pop's become greatly polished of late. People used to talk about the Pet Shop Boys and New Order in the same breath but can you ever imagine the PSBs fcucking up badly on-stage regularly?
I'm still amazed people think New Order are [ahem] 'polished' now?! Saw them in Portugal two weeks ago and I defy anyone to pick up a boot of that and think they're in any way, shape or form 'polished'. Barney SHOUTED the entire lyrics of Krafty, like he had tourette's or summat, and Run Wild had to be restarted cos it was a totally and utter fuck-up first time around. If anyone's seen a band perform less-polished this year then frankly, I'm gobsmacked.
And of course likewise, or conversely, or whatever, there are gigs from way back when where you could almost mistake them for competeant :)
As for less polished....You a member on uknova....I'll be posting a slightlynarrow sampler there for a laugh, I WAS going to put some real good stuff in it, but now I feel the urge for an insane live track or two.
Mr. Jarvis, that link in your signature is the greatest hyperlink of all time.
And Mr. Campbell, I rush over to UKNova and sign up for the promise of hot, live SlightlyNarrow action, and all I find is fucking Gardeners' World Live?
Prince Charles joins Monty in the show's Grow It area to discuss his passion for growing organically...
I aint put it there yet :)
, and WTF is wrong with Gardener's world?
Gonna pack the mp3's up now actually.
remember kids, it's taken them this long to sound as good as they du on the Phil C shows. generally i belive all their live shows are miss. pre-getready shows were perfomed in the "i don't care/who gives a.../we know we are good in the studio, so why bother live attitude". you can tell Barney & co. care a little more by adding teleprompter and practicing more during the getready & wftsc shows... but sometimes the "i don't care " mode creeps in. just my silly opinion though... which means nothing.
Al Jarvis wrote: I think you'll have to give examples of where you think they've been a HIT, or a MISS, cos one person's decent gig is always gonna be a complete mare for another.
As Tony Green would say "In ONE"
I've come out of a few gigs thinking it was the best I'd ever seen only to hear several people saying it was fookin awful (Ally Pally being a prime example)
There are more than just the band playing to take into consideration for me these days, I judge it on the piss up and banter with all the lads and lassies from here and beyond the site, then the crowd killing you at the front, then the actual gig and setlist.
We've give up with hoping for different setlists, so as I've said, these days it's about the pregig as much as the gig itself. Hyde Park's gonnae be mental.
I am still hoping for AOC and Turn though
Adam R wrote: Shame about the '87 BBC CD. All the sound sounds great, probably the best quality live recording, but Bernard let it down with the vocals. He was really out of it that night.
I love Barney's vocals at that gig. I think the way he shouts and moans the lyrics and whoops all the time adds to it and paints a very vivid picture of what the gig looked like (obviously I wasn't there). I think he injects a lot of energy into the tracks. I think he's particularly spectacular on BLT and TPK. But that's just my opinion - many people hate Barney's whooping and zaniness.
Weird then that that particular performance is regarded as one of their more competent gigs! It's the total insanity of Sister Ray at the end that wipes me out but it's a top gig for all the reasons we've detailed here.
The 'so fucking what?' attitude early on masked a kind-of determination to plough on regardless of fuck-ups, technical problems, forgetting the words, grief from the crowd etc. I think we've got to the point we were expect them both to be brilliant and terrible at the same time, although there are still people out there who have seen them live in the past and are PUT OUT that they've been wretched/brilliant the night they saw them, expecting them to be polished like every other bloody band!!
Paul Trowell wrote: Its about situations,memories,venues,pre-gig,company.
Speaking of which, has anyone seen New Order on this side of the pond where it really didn't 'go off' in the crowd?! The worst example of New Order over here I can think of is Nynex 98 - faaaar too big a venue and a lot of youngsters out who just fancied raving the night away and weren't there for the Order. Still, wasn't that bad, per se, but was a bit tame compared to some events. Am sure many of the earlier gigs would've been rather reverential with the band and audience both finding first footing but from 83 onwards surely Order gigs have been rather 'electric' on these shores, in part, I suppose, because of the 'type' of fan they attract over here. That no nonsense, up-for-it type of crowd who don't dwell on the pathos or myth.
To be fair the atmosphere at New Order gigs is totally different in my experience if your at the front than if your further back. The more casual listeners begin from about a 1/4 way back from the front and generally just stand around with drink in hand occasionally nodding in appreciaton, I noticed this the most when i was unfortunate enough to be upstairs at Brixton Academy for one night of the 2001 gig looking down on the crowd below.
Upstairs was even worse, people didnt even get out of their seats until half way through the gig! 
Which newOrder would show? I always loved the unpredictability factor that proved central to their charm. Even on an 'off' night you could still take away a memory or two to keep a smile raised. The Guildhall Riots in Preston - my arse dropped thrice. The tiny but loony following The Boys From Greece took to The Town & Country Club in '86 - Bernard being on the receiving end of at least half a dozen thrown pints during Ceremony. The very pish poor PA for Big World Cafe C4; still walking proud wearing a plush G-Mex t-shirt in Brixton Acad. knowing that Technique had just gone Top of the Pops OR Face Up nearly saving Wembley '87 from the jaws of defeat.
Still my favourite night out by a mile.
Still my favourite band.
what odds on getting 'Sunrise' as dusk falls upon Hyde Park ? Could someone post up the James Brown review of G-Mex '88 (Nme) ? Cheers.
"read my fookin' lips you shower of cockney wankers, move back"
Al Jarvis wrote: I think you'll have to give examples of where you think they've been a HIT, or a MISS, cos one person's decent gig is always gonna be a complete mare for another.
Tracklisting would help for me: if we got Age of Consent, Ceremony and EGG anywhere next weekend then I'm a happy man. I am so easily bought!
One gig I remember them being slated at in the 80's was the 'moody' Oxford Apollo gig in 86 (though I bet a lot of people would kill for a gig like that these days). The reviews of that gig were awful, yet I was sat up in the front of the circle (I had a dislocated shoulder) and when they kicked in 'Ceremony' I swear it looked like a fcuking riot was going on below me in the stalls. The whole place went up, just a surging sea of bodies. Fantastic just sitting watching that, yet so strange to look back on reviews of that one saying how awful New Order were on that occasion. I thought they were sublime!
Oxford really is a classic example of this. I thought this was a tremendous performance at the time, the sound was distorting on the vocals down the front so you couldn't really hear what Bernard was saying between songs, it was only afterwards that I found out that they were so unhappy up there and were never gonna do an encore that night. It was a good performance, I can understand the reviewers bitching because there was no encore (well it was only Jack Prat Barron really who had a dig at them), but in terms of both the setlist chosen and the way they actually played the songs, this was the best of the Spring 86 shows by quite a long way.
