Phils Keyboards? Real? Fake?

NObabe wrote:

szwajkos technique wrote: I dont understand how you could say fuck the keyboards.

Sorry dear but give me Rock the shack and Working Overtime any day instead of Blue Monday or Guilt :wink3: Yeah, I'm one of those who kept playing Get Ready like crazy in 2001. So what!?!?

I enjoy those songs. But to say, fuck the keyboards, you say fuck most of the back catalog. If i remember Get ready had some keyboard, not as much as prior albums but they did. I enjoy RTC, and WO but album full of these would drive me nuts.

I think everyone should agree that we accept New Order using programmed/sequenced instrumentation at their gigs. The complaint I agree with is that they shouldn't be pretending to play those parts.

szwajkos technique wrote:

NObabe wrote:

szwajkos technique wrote: I dont understand how you could say fuck the keyboards.

Sorry dear but give me Rock the shack and Working Overtime any day instead of Blue Monday or Guilt :wink3: Yeah, I'm one of those who kept playing Get Ready like crazy in 2001. So what!?!?

I enjoy those songs. But to say, fuck the keyboards, you say fuck most of the back catalog. If i remember Get ready had some keyboard, not as much as prior albums but they did. I enjoy RTC, and WO but album full of these would drive me nuts.

It's okay, just don't give me that electro shit, not really kind of a thing I'd want NO to do. It's okay for Depeche, PSB, Erasure etc to use the keyboards so much (and I do like all of these bands, well not Erasure though, they make me vomit), that's why I said that what I said. Take Guilt for example, still sounds like some lame song from "Very" (PSB album). Even the whole of Republic sounds much better!!! And you know I didn't mean they should completely fuck the keyboards. The beauty of the band is that they actually mix those instruments in the most wonderful way my ears have ever heard. My personal taste after all, I guess. And as for the keyboard songs off Get Ready (Someone like you occures to mind), yeah I usually skip them. See, there's no point in arguing about it. We all like the band for our very own reasons.

i dont think its arguing, its more of a discussion. I respect you tastes dearly, maya. Are you the one that says that republic sounds PSB? I really agree. You described it perfectly.

szwajkos technique wrote: i dont think its arguing, its more of a discussion. I respect you tastes dearly, maya. Are you the one that says that republic sounds PSB? I really agree. You described it perfectly.

Yeah, it's like listening to a bloody PSB album, only with Barney on vocals. Can't remember last time I played it, to be quite honest with you. I mean, I really like PSB sound (well, pre - Very period, to be precise), it's just I don't like NO sounding like PSB or any other band. It's the perfect mix of all those instruments that makes them unique, right? And as for Phill's keyboard playing, I couldn't care less whether it was real or fake. People are just paying too much attention, that's all. What the hell did they expect? The real Kylie to appear and sing "set me free" instead of that sample for BM!?!?! I say leave the band alone, they still fucking rock and after all these years still sounding much much better than some of these new copycats.

Spotnick wrote: So Maya, you don't like Electronic's first album I assume ;)

Not a fan of techno-pop I can see, do you actually enjoy BLT?

When you say BLT, do you actually mean Bizarre Love Triangle or Biznotic Love Trapezoid? Okay, joke aside, my favourite Electronic album is Twisted Tenderness but something tells me you've already expected an answer like that. :D It's not that I don't really like the Electronic's first album. Get the message is one of the best songs they've ever done. Let's just put it this way: I more or less like everything except that I tend to skip some songs more often than the others. ;) And believe it or not, BLT has always been in my Top 10!

its weird, i think the first electronic sounds really outdated. With the exception of get the message, which i think is such a timeless song. Marr sounds fantastic and he makes it sound so simple. Does that make sense? Also Barney's lyrics are so cleaver, witty, and perfect pop song all at the same time.

szwajkos technique wrote: its weird, i think the first electronic sounds really outdated. With the exception of get the message, which i think is such a timeless song. Marr sounds fantastic and he makes it sound so simple. Does that make sense? Also Barney's lyrics are so cleaver, witty, and perfect pop song all at the same time.

Timeless indeed. And once again Marr proves he's nothing but a pure genius.

What about PSB' Release? Most PSB albums sound outdated now, but the last one and Behaviour still sound extraordinary and fresh.

Marr's contribution? ;)

Ok, my 4 comments:

1. Phil's just a puppet, has of course nothing to do with synths at any level in any situation in the studio. So, expecting him to "play" parts that Barney and the producer at hand come up with is not very likely to ever happen effortless. There's always gonna be struggle (I mean, most of the parts are probably nor even played trough more than a couple of times before they get recorded in the sequencers...that's how it's done these days).

2. Miming parts is not very attractive, but is looking at Phil at all any fun? As I said, I expect most parts to be sequenced from the beginning and probably rendered into pure audio on their backing Akai DR16s hd-recorders for regular linear playback along with some sync. So, not playing parts is ok for me, miming is accepted as I couldn't care less about Phil in particular and setting up a rack with synths/effects is just pleasant for us tech-heads 'cos we somehow talk us into believing they actually use that equipment in the studio (not true of course).

3. Depeche Mode has touched at least as many people as NO. I love both bands and consider Martin Gore and Bernard Sumner to be the absolute elite of electronic pop songwriters. They are both very unique and use extremely unusual harmonies. A gift to us all, really.

4. Electronic's first album is in my eyes on of the 3 best albums made in modern pop history. It just breathes new optimism and echoes the feelings of being creative geniuses in a fucked up industrial city where you either play football, mug people or create music. It is a blend of very creative people at their peaks in their careers that simply gets to me everytime I listen to it. Incredible.

NO Babe wrote:

Timeless indeed. And once again Marr proves he's nothing but a pure genius.

From what NO Babe has said in this thread I can only think she might find Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, or ZZ Top more suitable to her palette than a band such as New Order who are renowned for using technology...

But she is right about Marr being a genius, at least with guitars. I wish we could have had Marr in New Order, instead of Phil, in some capacity. Most New Order fans would respect Marr because of his musical history and awesome guitar playing...

NObabe wrote:

Rock the shack

BEST THING THEY HAVE EVER DONE

Why the HELL would Phil even think of faking keyboard parts???

I had suspected he mimed some keyboards based on video footage I'd seen recently, but had convinced myself I was just paranoid. My worst fears are now confirmed.

This couldn't be Bernard's idea, could it? If not, then someone needs to get Phil in check. He's clearly an above average guitarist, but - I'm sorry to say - this revelation ruins him in my eyes.

Also, I wish Phil would play those keyboard parts he's miming! Just imagine the reaction - 15 years ago- if told New Order would be miming keyboard parts in 2005! They would probably have .

What's changed?

Don't get me wrong, New Order's the best there is, and probably the best there ever will be. Didn't New Order's Touched by the Hand of God poke fun at groups who pretended to play instruments?

ROGER WATERS wrote: Why the HELL would Phil even think of faking keyboard parts???

I had suspected he mimed some keyboards based on video footage I'd seen recently, but had convinced myself I was just paranoid. My worst fears are now confirmed.

This couldn't be Bernard's idea, could it? If not, then someone needs to get Phil in check. He's clearly an above average guitarist, but - I'm sorry to say - this revelation ruins him in my eyes.

Also, I wish Phil would play those keyboard parts he's miming! Just imagine the reaction - 15 years ago- if told New Order would be miming keyboard parts in 2005! They would probably have .

What's changed?

Don't get me wrong, New Order's the best there is, and probably the best there ever will be. Didn't New Order's Touched by the Hand of God poke fun at groups who pretended to play instruments?

Well I saw footage of some of those Republic songs, where the some of the songs play themselves, and Gillian Barney & Hookey just add barely audiable guitars.

Or the question of does Steve play drums or synth on BLT, as he did on the earlier versions.

Things change instrumentation changes from manual to automated. But still I prefer them to be doing something on-stage rather than just standing around

.

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: At least they are not crap and gay like DM, if people do not like New Order then visit a DM or Fat Bob site instead.

It's a valid thread and well worthy of discussion in this forum. How shit do New Order need to get before cavemen like you wake up?

NO Fan wrote: From what NO Babe has said in this thread I can only think she might find Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, or ZZ Top more suitable to her palette

And you know what you said here is bollocks

NO Fan wrote: I wish we could have had Marr in New Order, instead of Phil, in some capacity. Most New Order fans would respect Marr because of his musical history and awesome guitar playing...

New Order + Marr + Chris Low ? =

NOrder fans fall into three camps;

1. Those who like to Rock The Shack and Mosh and get excited by football. Politics; right of centre.

2. Those who like the synth / dance tracks, dance like Barney and are probably scifi fans. Politics; left of centre.

3. People like me who like to Rock the Shack, occassionally do a spot of moshing, but mainly dance like Barney to synthy stuff. Politics; moderate.

1 and 2 will always be at each other's throats...

craigy wrote:

3. People like me who like to Rock the Shack, occassionally do a spot of moshing, but mainly dance like Barney to synthy stuff. Politics; moderate.

I'd like to be in this group - but i still cant do the 'running man' dance. Can you teach me

You have much to learn young Padowan - Training, too old, perhaps, he is to be.

Andy wrote: I think everyone should agree that we accept New Order using programmed/sequenced instrumentation at their gigs. The complaint I agree with is that they shouldn't be pretending to play those parts.

I'm with Andy on this..No one likes being mugged off...It seems a bit out of order pretending at live shows,if this is the case that is

I don't think Phil is miming and, if he is, he's not doing it on all the synth parts he's obliged to play (or look like he's playing).

There's a fair bit of kit still on-stage with them at the moment. They used to cart around several synths, a rack of effects, samplers, at least one drum machine, a keys mixer and a sequencer. That's been slimmed down since the Get Ready gigs to Phil's Roland XP-80, an all-singing, all-dancing 'workstation' synth. Steve uses a Kurzweil synth for his parts, although I think he's switching programmed drum patterns and maybe triggering samples too.

Barney uses another synth on Blue Monday only really but I've seen him share one with Gillian in the past! The other 'new' synths on Phil's rack - one's a MonoMachine which is a new one on me and I'm a synth nutter! - which was MIDId up so I take it it was contributing layers here and there. A good deal of the synth parts are sequenced or maybe recorded on their hard drive recorder (which sits to the left of Steve's drum kit; you can see it on their various TV performances).

Phil breaks off from playing guitar on Krafty to play the bells bit so one would think he was actually playing it rather than miming. Barney must've improved as a musician overall because he can now sing and play at the same time, the majority of the Order's past material being typified by him singing inbetween playing!

Using any kind of recorded media or live sequencing poses a question over what you play live over it and what would either sound better sequenced/recorded or played live. When I gigged with a similar setup, I preferred to alternate so I was playing a bassline on one song, chords on another and a lead part on another. It's up to them really.

NObabe wrote:

NO Fan wrote: From what NO Babe has said in this thread I can only think she might find Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, or ZZ Top more suitable to her palette

And you know what you said here is bollocks

Check them out, Babe. I had fun thinking up those recommendations for you

NO Fan wrote:

NObabe wrote:

NO Fan wrote: From what NO Babe has said in this thread I can only think she might find Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, or ZZ Top more suitable to her palette

And you know what you said here is bollocks

Check them out, Babe. I had fun thinking up those recommendations for you

Glad to know you had a great time thinking of me

putting aside the use of tape on stage....

the fact that this guy is allowed to MIME something is very dissappointing...why try to fake the crowd? Its the hand-job version of lipsynching, and it shouldnt be allowed...very very lame.

if you listen to the latest mp3s of "Blue Monday" from the Belgium show, you'll notice there's a lot of neat synth parts going on. I'm pretty sure that's courtesty of both Phil and Barney playing their XP-80s and the additional Korg microKorgs as well (see the recent pictures and you'll notice there are microKorgs duct-taped onto the XP-80s!).

Phil mimes the bell solo on Krafty, ever noitce how it keeps on goign for two notes after he goes back to his guitar.

The fact that he pretended to play the very simple synth parts on JET at the US shows and now doesnt even bother really annoys me.

Back in the 80s, Barney never would have let Gillian mime her hand played parts.

Perhaps the extra synts are for the new BM samples, but when they played those samples at the Southside fest, they still only had thier XP 80s.

I dont think Phil adss to NO at all. NO already has a great guitarist in Bernard Sumner...

Synths and electronics area big part of New Orders sound and all the non sequenced parts should be played live, not put on a backing track so Phil can add useless guitar parts more suited for Oasis than New Order..

Yes, I will also add I really believe Phil is evil... :D