Phils Keyboards? Real? Fake?

I noticed in the pics from Glastonbury and Hyde Park that Phil now has more synths on stage than he did on the US tour.

I know the second synth is for Barney, but Phils rack now has to additional synths attatched to it.

Considering that Phil mimes his keyboard parts for WFTSC, Krafty, and Jetstream ( it really annoys me that he pretended to play the piano intro on the US tour and in all the European shows Ive seen he wanks on JET with guitar) why would he suddenly need more gear now?

Phil mimes his keyboards for the new songs, plays live on the old ones, but why does he suddenly need an extra rack.

I hate to say this, but I think those two extra synths on Phils rack are for show.

It really annoys me that he cant play the synth parts on JET or WFTSC or Krafty live, he just mimes them or ruins them with his atonal guitar gunk.

Electro is a big part of New Orders history, its a shame that they arent doing the synth live, especially as they used to criticise Depeche Mode for using a backing tape. Ive seen DM live, and the majority of thier synth parts are played, not programmed like New Orders.

A shame.

So whats Phils extra synths for? To make him look cooler?

At least they are not crap and gay like DM, if people do not like New Order then visit a DM or Fat Bob site instead.

New Order are the godfathers of innovative electro disco indie alter rock bla h ablaaa.....

Give them a break. What's the point of being an electronic band if you have to play live?

Hah hah. Funny guys.

Seriously, though, of course New Order are awesome, but Phil miming synth parts live is a bit trashy for a class act like New Order, dont you think?

Anyways, I really do wanna know about Phils extra gear at Clastonbury and Hyde, any ideas?

Nice one

But there's 'live' keyboards and 'live' keyboards. Programmed sequenced tracks (ie the bass in BM, sequencers in temptation etc) and the manually played swathes of string etc in your silent face, Thieves etc. You can't play 'live' the former, but it would be a con if everything like the latter was on tape.

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: At least they are not crap and gay like DM, if people do not like New Order then visit a DM or Fat Bob site instead.

Nice one

But there's 'live' keyboards and 'live' keyboards. Programmed sequenced tracks (ie the bass in BM, sequencers in temptation etc) and the manually played swathes of string etc in your silent face, Thieves etc. You can't play 'live' the former, but it would be a con if everything like the latter was on tape.

I think Phil could easily play the piano intro and synth parts on JET and he could easy do the same on WFTSC, I think itd make the live performances of those songs better. The synth strings at the end of WFTSC are lovely.

Also, he should actually play his parts on Krafty instead of miming, given that his guitar ads nothing to the song.

I think Regret would sound a lot better if he played synth on it like Gillian did instead of wanking on it with guitar.

Oh yeah, I love New Order too, so I hate to see them putting easily playable synth parts on a backing track so thier newest member can add useless guitar to the songs. We dont need more guitar.

Barney is a great guitarist, I love his playing.

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: At least they are not crap and gay like DM, if people do not like New Order then visit a DM or Fat Bob site instead.

The Mode ain't crap! They've been banging out fine songs for decades, including quite a few dark synthy numbers as well (see the comparison with No there)...

And so what if parts of Mode are gay??? I'd put money on at least one member of NO being bisexual...

Anyway>>> Phil is probably given programmes to avoid fucking up... At Hyde Park he played a bum note on Blue Monday (if memory serves) and Barney nearly cut him in two with the evilness of his look!

Shug wrote: Craigy, they are not called Depish for nothing mate. Please remember this

As for "Does Phil play live"

10 out of 10 for observation Mr Starkey, it's something I'd never notice, Brian's right with the sequenced parts, obviously he's not playing them, they're pre-programmed, I cannae play keyboards, but having seen em play on Jools and Canal + amongst others, I thought he was playing live, espescially on Crystal.....but what do I know.

An extra rack? Classic.

Did you see Barney give Phil an evil look during a Blue Monday bum note - or am I imagining this...?

Looks like there is some commond ground covered in this thread and the one about the audio treat EGG.

So if I may quote myself, here is what I said on the other thread. You're sure Phil just mimes those keyboards parts by the way ?

Does everything has to be preprogrammed ? I mean, I would prefer Phil to drop some guitar parts and rather play some keyboard stuff. And by that, I mean stuff that are notes played, not just patterns and programming. I find it disturbing to watch a band that looks like just a rock band (2 guitars, bass, drums) and sounds like a more keyboard-based one, see what I mean ?

(But I know it was already the case with songs like Dream Attack live.)

I prefer when they have to push even juste on or two buttons, to give the impression that it's more open to variations

Of course, you can't do live everything that's on the record. But that's the point of live shows too: trying to find a way to do songs without the billion layers you can have on record, even if it means dropping some parts...

Sorry if the reading is sometimes a bit incoherent but it's an mix-up of a few posts of mine.

Fuck the keyboards, give me more guitars any day! :D

Buster Klumpy wrote:

Does everything has to be preprogrammed ? I mean, I would prefer Phil to drop some guitar parts and rather play some keyboard stuff. And by that, I mean stuff that are notes played, not just patterns and programming. I find it disturbing to watch a band that looks like just a rock band (2 guitars, bass, drums) and sounds like a more keyboard-based one, see what I mean ?

(But I know it was already the case with songs like Dream Attack live.)

They've always used sequencers, often in a subtle way to underpin the track. Songs like Love Vigilantes and Age of Consent both have a bass sequencer part that you can hardly hear, I think they use them in a click track way for the live synths. Most of the time when Gillian was with the band, her playing would consist of triggering a pre-recorded part (that they had recorded, a particular phrase or voice that would be configured so that when she pressed a certain key, the sound would change and play a pattern of music), obviously there were always some live keyboards as well, and there is no doubt to me that there still are some live keyboard parts. They've been using certain pre-recorded parts for years though - the intros to Regret and 60mph, and latterly the first chorus vocal lines of WFTSC are all pre-recorded. Bass is live though, as is the guitar and most of the vocal input!

Yeah...

I mean, I know Phil actually plays keys on TF, BM, Crystal, TBTHOG, Tempation, BM, BLT, SLC, YSF..

But I really dislike the fact that he mimes of all of the keys for the WFTSC album..

As for the Canal Plus show...

Phil mined his keys on that show. He played on Crystal and LWTUA, but he mimned his synth parts for JET, WFTSC, and Krafty. He pretended to play them.

He did the same at the Chicago show..

But watch the Southside video...suddenly the piano intro for JET and all the other synth parts for the songs from WFTSC are playing themselves..

It just annoys me. I really do think his extra synths at Hyde park and Glasto were just ther for sure, since he didnt appear to touch them and didnt need them for the earlier shows....

Z

Fantasy is often better than reality, myth is often superior to actuality...

Shug wrote:

craigy wrote: Fantasy is often better than reality, myth is often superior to actuality...

Yer reading Tony Wilson's memoirs there...aren't you?

NO...he has been reading MINE!:D

the machines were certainly cabled up so they were under secuencer control. there's a big silvery analogue-y lookin fooker on top of the stand......could be for YSF ( I say that because it sounds "live-er" than things like BM).

It's funny I have a hatred for tape, and I learned most of it from New Order, so I do feel a little personally let down by the use of the HD.

However, seeing more beasties is good, you only mock that crap up for TotP, and then it's Auntie's stunt $MACHINE_IN_VOGUE (dx7-d50-m1-trinity-i stopped watching).

When it comes to music, you can call me screaming mental, but I am in total agreement with Dr Shivasubrahmanian chandrasegrampeli : "Whether we are based on Carbon or Silcon makes no fundamental difference, we should each be treated with the same respect". On stage, a drum machine on tape annoys me as much as would a drummer on tape.

What eats at me most ( and will appear in "that" post I'm collecting my wits for) is that "back in the day" they went 100% live with equipment that was moody, stroppy, unstable, insane and often downright broken. Now I thought technology had progressed....most of my shit can stay in tune when the lights come on at any rate....so why is it HARDER now? (I heard someone say that the new FX technology was the reason there were only 13 episodes in the New Dr Who.....LOL).

But at what point would those who don't care start to care? They replace Steve with a tape? Hooky? Barney? In fact as I asid elsewhere, if reliability and honesty towards the studio version are the cited reasons for the deployment of tapes......I can think of something (ahem, someone!) FAR more in need of being a play-in than the machines

craigy wrote:

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: At least they are not crap and gay like DM, if people do not like New Order then visit a DM or Fat Bob site instead.

The Mode ain't crap! They've been banging out fine songs for decades, including quite a few dark synthy numbers as well (see the comparison with No there)...

And so what if parts of Mode are gay??? I'd put money on at least one member of NO being bisexual...

Anyway>>> Phil is probably given programmes to avoid fucking up... At Hyde Park he played a bum note on Blue Monday (if memory serves) and Barney nearly cut him in two with the evilness of his look!

I agree that Mode are no crap at all. They wrote Enjoy the Silence peopleeeeeee. BUT -no offence mate- since you don't care if someone is gay or not why are you betting on a NO's member as a bi? About Phil's playing: i don't care which synths are live and which are taped. GO TO A STUDIO AND CREATE THOSE SOUNDS OR GET A CUBASE AND TRY TO SYNTH NEW SOUNDS PEOPLE!

It's just not good to say something negative then throw 'gay' in with it...

There's something pretty hilarious in the current ongoing threads, if you think of it. There's debate about which songs are overrated and so many things. As it has been said, the New Order fan is a pretty difficult one.

But in the same time, lots of these people who demand so much of their favorites bands can't be arsed about if they play live or if it's just monkeys starting tapes.

It's a bit : don't mind if they mime all thay songs from star to end, as long as they change the setlist...

Only at NeworderOnline's ...

PS : sorry for the double posting - but two threads, as I already said, cover approximately the same grounds.

For my part I only rage against such things BECAUSE I LOVE THEM.

They've always been about more than music, and I suspect I(we) care rather rather more than they do these days.

What can I say, I like the noise of live keyboards. Only tape you'll ever find on a slightlynarrow stage will have random bits of tv shows and movies on it.

Don't EVER mistake my anti-tape or Barney's a twat(been a very good boy lately apart from his guitar tantrum at glasto when Hookie was among the masses) rants for any kind of dislike or lack of love of the worlds greatest band.

Maybe I just got programmed back in the factory days?

Phil is really hired help for the band. Even if New Order say he is part of the band, we all know he had nothing at all to do with what makes New Order great.

To make things worse, Phil informs us all that he has now been in the band longer than Ian Curtis. But Curtis was never worshipped for his longevity, but for is quality of his work. I hope Phil pisses off soon...

I stated this before, nothing against Phil, but i think it was a mistake hiring him. He really adds nothing. I think they should of just hired an electronic genius such as a Auetche to accompany them on tour. I dont understand with all the remixes of NO why they decide to add another guitarist.

If Phil said that being part of the NO/JD fan longer then Ian curtiss that is utter bullshit, and then i have something against him. Granted that is probably true, but curtis had more talent in his left pinky then phil-in.

Spotnick wrote:

NObabe wrote: Fuck the keyboards, give me more guitars any day! :D

Hum, you know, what makes New Order great is the mix of gee-tars and keyboards...

When they only do one of them, it gives pretty average results... (ie Rock The Shack, Working Overtime, and well, others)...

But when you mix them, you get Vanishing Point and Dream Attack!

true that. I dont understand how you could say fuck the keyboards. What nicos said is very correct. The mix is what makes new order unique.

Zachery Starkey wrote: Yeah...

I mean, I know Phil actually plays keys on TF, BM, Crystal, TBTHOG, Tempation, BM, BLT, SLC, YSF..

But I really dislike the fact that he mimes of all of the keys for the WFTSC album..

It just annoys me. I really do think his extra synths at Hyde park and Glasto were just ther for sure, since he didnt appear to touch them and didnt need them for the earlier shows....

Z

Well he doesn't play the piano part on Crystal, he mimes it. At Glastonbury he didn't even hit the keys. We all know that over the years lots have stuff has been programmed / sequenced, so whats the point in pretending to play?

Well, Spotnick, that's what I've just said in the "overrated songs" thread. I'm not sure there's any guitars on "Vanishing Point" though...

szwajkos technique wrote: I dont understand how you could say fuck the keyboards.

Sorry dear but give me Rock the shack and Working Overtime any day instead of Blue Monday or Guilt :wink3: Yeah, I'm one of those who kept playing Get Ready like crazy in 2001. So what!?!?