NO not what they were, agreed?

Uncle Liam wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: go and actually listen to the albums and i'll think you'll find that most of them have more than a "couple of good songs"

hell, even the universally slated republic has four good songs (regret, EVeryone Everywhere, Special and World for the record)

Are you suggesting that each of the albums only has a couple of good songs?

YES.

Ok then. so what songs on Low life arent that good then?

The edited version of Perfect Kiss. Otherwise, a great piece of work overall.

Uncle Liam wrote:

Ok then. so what songs on Low life arent that good then?

Love Vigilantes This Time of Night Sunrise Elegia Sub Culture Face Up

While it is hailed as the definitive N.O album, I found it horribly dated. Other albums stand up perfectly well. Strange that.

well you heard it here first! Low Life dated.

no wonder they dont play in belfast!

heres what i dont get, you said that each album only has a couple of good songs, and then on you say that the other albums stand up quite well. bit of a contradiction there!

Not really. I'm talking about the production of the albums. Put Power,Corruption and Lies against Low Life and PC&L wins hands down. It sounds more modern than Low Life,

So it's not a contradiction, is it?

It's all subjective, listen to the best thing they have done - HURT

Christopher Owens wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote:

Ok then. so what songs on Low life arent that good then?

Love Vigilantes This Time of Night Sunrise Elegia Sub Culture Face Up

While it is hailed as the definitive N.O album, I found it horribly dated. Other albums stand up perfectly well. Strange that.

I think it is going to incredibly difficult to find an album, 20 years ago, which is not in the least bit dated by today's standards. And, on a similar note, in response to the original post, NO is still the same band they were 20 years ago, minus Gillian, but merely operate under new conditions, which include the technological advancements made in music!
Think about the changes which New Order has undergone within how their music is distributed: first on LPS and vinyl, and cassettes, then CDs, and finally some digital thing called an mp3! It's not hard to imagine then how technology has advanced through the years making anything from the 80s seem dated by today's standards. Heck, even Technique, only 4 years older than Low-Life, sounds like it's an entire world apart! Is it any real surprise what 20 years has produced? By yesterday's standards though, NO were beyond other artists. It's hard to remember that, and it's even harder to enjoy something which sounds like it's out of the 80s - because it is - but when you grasp what NO was and what they are, there's not a lot of differences - just progression.

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: It's all subjective

amen to that.

this thread is indicative of why men are unable to run the world without resorting to violence.

*awaiting angry replies*

"If you like/dislike ______ album/song/remix/facial expression/live performance that I don't, then you're not a real fan."

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: It's all subjective, listen to the best thing they have done - HURT

Very true.

Speaks wrote:

Heck, even Technique, only 4 years older than Low-Life, sounds like it's an entire world apart! Is it any real surprise what 20 years has produced?:

Although I certainly agree with where you're coming from, what I am suggesting is that Low Life is their most 80's sounding album, due to the production and the sound of the synths. As a result of that, I find it grating on my ears. Other albums, like PC&L, Brotherhood and even Technique stand up much better nowadays due to the better production and better synths. That's why I feel they still stand up against a new album released today.

Speaks wrote:

By yesterday's standards though, NO were beyond other artists. It's hard to remember that, and it's even harder to enjoy something which sounds like it's out of the 80s - because it is - but when you grasp what NO was and what they are, there's not a lot of differences - just progression. :

Very true. Being young, I wouldn’t appreciate what was coming out during the 80’s, because I wouldn’t remember it. I’m a 90’s child.

AgentWood wrote:

this thread is indicative of why men are unable to run the world without resorting to violence.

*awaiting angry replies*

Interesting reply. However, I was only stating my opinion. Not expecting to get into a full scale argument with other fans.

Hannett of the Apes wrote: "If you like/dislike ______ album/song/remix/facial expression/live performance that I don't, then you're not a real fan."

Captures Uncle Liam perfectly.

They ain't genre defining, media thwarting, counter-culture pioneers anymore, but they're still great.

This thread is depressing.

AgentWood wrote:

CTB wrote: Sorry, but I am gonna disagree on this one. I think the last two albums are much better efforts than Republic and Movement (although I do like Movement sometimes, but not really as a NO album when it's stacked up against the following efforts).

i agree--what do you mean by 'after republic'? i think they've demonstrated that they can continue to turn out top material despite (most of) republic!

Perhaps I'm in a minority in actually rather rating Republic. Not up there with LL/PCL obviously, but apart from a couple of duff album tracks I actually like it a lot. Certainly more than the last two. Even the better tracks (crystal, sly, turn etc) were merely good, not particularly exciting. IMO anyway. Actually I'm also probably in a minority in considering Jetstream as one of the better recent efforts (at least it was an attempt at something different, rather than NO-by-numbers).

Barney Army wrote:

As to whether they have lost their 'edge'.... well if you think they have then maybe you have lost your 'edge'?

I wouldn't necessarily argue with that, probably its as much about my getting on a bit as their doing so.

Ruined in a day wrote: Technique's overrated...Sorry, just felt like saying that... Movement was a great album back in the 80s, I was very influenced by it. And Crystal rocks...best song I heard for about 15 years or so...

I agree that Technique seems to be a trifle over-rated by some, and I personally liked Movement - maybe it had to be heard in context, a band 'finding their way' etc. And while Crystal is a good song, it still doesn't seem to have the freshness the earlier stuff had. Maybe its just that everyone else has finally caught up with them now.

Anyway, I still haven't given up hope that the next lp will suprise me.

Christopher Owens wrote:

Although I certainly agree with where you're coming from, what I am suggesting is that Low Life is their most 80's sounding album, due to the production and the sound of the synths. As a result of that, I find it grating on my ears. Other albums, like PC&L, Brotherhood and even Technique stand up much better nowadays due to the better production and better synths. That's why I feel they still stand up against a new album released today.

Ironically, that's one of the reasons I love LL over Technique. I like the primitive experimental nature of the former, The latter is too slick for me. In LL I hear the creativity rather than the technology (Jeez, that sounds pretentious).

404 error wrote:

Ruined in a day wrote: Technique's overrated...Sorry, just felt like saying that... Movement was a great album back in the 80s, I was very influenced by it. And Crystal rocks...best song I heard for about 15 years or so...

I agree that Technique seems to be a trifle over-rated by some, and I personally liked Movement - maybe it had to be heard in context, a band 'finding their way' etc. And while Crystal is a good song, it still doesn't seem to have the freshness the earlier stuff had. Maybe its just that everyone else has finally caught up with them now.

Anyway, I still haven't given up hope that the next lp will suprise me.

Dear God, not the return of the whats overrated, whats underrated debate!

We should be grateful that there is such variety to spark threads like this. Apart from Gillian's absence New Order are the same as they've always been - stacks of decent tunes, occasionally brilliant, occasionally frustrating.

Can't live without 'em.

I disagree.

I think the last two albums have both been excellent, without change comes stagnation, over the last 20-25 years New Order have been the most innovative band this island has ever produced.