NO not what they were, agreed?

I'm guessing that most folk here would concede that the reformed NO can't really be compared with the first time round? Its not just the music (though neither GR or WFTSC does a great deal for me) but as people have pointed out here they've lost the mystique somehow, even the track titles and cover art seem lazy. I'm not hugely bothered though. Its just middle age I guess, probably inevitable. Are there any bands that have managed to maintain the level of innovation and intensity that NO once had?

And does it make any sense to wonder what they might have produced after Republic had they not been driven apart by the financial strains of Factory and the Hacienda? Or is that an impossible question because it was the same anarchic incompetence of Factory that made it all possible in the first place?

Its like wondering what the Stone Roses would have come up with if Silvertone hadn't screwed them over, or what Oasis would have produced if they'd possessed an ounce of talent or originality in the first f***ing place.

Sorry, but I am gonna disagree on this one. I think the last two albums are much better efforts than Republic and Movement (although I do like Movement sometimes, but not really as a NO album when it's stacked up against the following efforts).

True, the percieved 'mystique' has diminished post-factory, but the mystique was always a bit of a press beat up anyway - I never really interpreted their attitude as being mysterious, just as having integrity and being well grounded. If a band doesn't want to sit around posing for photos that make them look like twats, or answer inane questions about their dead mate, it's hardly mysterious, is it?

Maybe they will never write the likes of TPK again because they already did it once?

So no, sorry - not 'agreed' at all. CTB

CTB wrote: Sorry, but I am gonna disagree on this one. I think the last two albums are much better efforts than Republic and Movement (although I do like Movement sometimes, but not really as a NO album when it's stacked up against the following efforts).

i agree--what do you mean by 'after republic'? i think they've demonstrated that they can continue to turn out top material despite (most of) republic!

Spotnick wrote: I am the only person on earth to rate Get Ready and WFTSC above of Low-Life and PC&L or what?

Yeah, I must be the only one...

We can come together with WFTSC above Low-Life... Get Ready is not bad... But nothing above PC&L for me... ;)

CTB wrote: Sorry, but I am gonna disagree on this one. I think the last two albums are much better efforts than Republic and Movement (although I do like Movement sometimes, but not really as a NO album when it's stacked up against the following efforts).

True, the percieved 'mystique' has diminished post-factory, but the mystique was always a bit of a press beat up anyway - I never really interpreted their attitude as being mysterious, just as having integrity and being well grounded. If a band doesn't want to sit around posing for photos that make them look like twats, or answer inane questions about their dead mate, it's hardly mysterious, is it?

Maybe they will never write the likes of TPK again because they already did it once?

So no, sorry - not 'agreed' at all. CTB

CTB, I'm with you here; I'm not "agreed" on the original post either. Can't judge Movement myself (I don't have it) and Republic's one of my fave NO albums but the rest of what you've said is spot on! Well done!

Cheers Miss D - good to know I wasn't out on my own there CTB

I'm with Spotnick, at least on the part about WFTSC. I really liked a lot of Get Ready, only 1 or 2 clinkers but I have to say, I loved NO from jumpstreet and find that they have remained true to themselves. Technique for me will, at least for now, remain their pinnacle for me but I am just damned glad they've chosen to hang in there and keep putting out product of consistant quality. I live for the day however that P Saville gets his creative pants back on and does something more with the packaging.

There is a huge difference if you bought an album retrospectively or not. Movement is the only one I didnt get first time round and it's no coincedence it does little for me.

For example, Low Life reminds me of a great summer of '85 regardless of the merits of the music. If I'd have bought it retrospectively then it would be half the album it is to me now.

As to whether they have lost their 'edge'.... well if you think they have then maybe you have lost your 'edge'?

404 error wrote: Are there any bands that have managed to maintain the level of innovation and intensity that NO once had?

Yes there some bands for sure. New Order and Kraftwerk for me. Slow Jam Primitive Notion Player in a League HNWYD WFTSC Dracula's Castle(forget the title) are some of the songs that got all No's trademarks.

Miss Disco wrote:

CTB wrote: Sorry, but I am gonna disagree on this one. I think the last two albums are much better efforts than Republic and Movement (although I do like Movement sometimes, but not really as a NO album when it's stacked up against the following efforts).

True, the percieved 'mystique' has diminished post-factory, but the mystique was always a bit of a press beat up anyway - I never really interpreted their attitude as being mysterious, just as having integrity and being well grounded. If a band doesn't want to sit around posing for photos that make them look like twats, or answer inane questions about their dead mate, it's hardly mysterious, is it?

Maybe they will never write the likes of TPK again because they already did it once?

So no, sorry - not 'agreed' at all. CTB

CTB, I'm with you here; I'm not "agreed" on the original post either. Can't judge Movement myself (I don't have it) and Republic's one of my fave NO albums but the rest of what you've said is spot on! Well done!

Is there any reason why you dont have movement? Seems strange considering you can pick it up most places for a fiver or less!

Uncle Liam wrote:

Is there any reason why you dont have movement? Seems strange considering you can pick it up most places for a fiver or less!

Well, I don't like JD as much as NO and I heard that Movement was very JD-esque, so I wasn't sure if I'd like it as much. That's why I don't have it.

Spotnick wrote: I am the only person on earth to rate Get Ready and WFTSC above of Low-Life and PC&L or what?

Don't get me wrong, it might be because I enjoy Turn My Way and Slow Jam compared to a lot of people here, but I can't say I enjoy all songs on Low-Life or PC&L compared to the 2 latest opus.

Yeah, I must be the only one...

You are the only one.

Technique : Its all been downhill after that I think. Low Life Brotherhood Technique, and associated singles : I dont know if any band will ever reach that level ever. Whatever happened in those records was magic.

Ah right.

Ever though about buying to make up your own mind?

Clockwork C wrote:

Spotnick wrote: I am the only person on earth to rate Get Ready and WFTSC above of Low-Life and PC&L or what?

Don't get me wrong, it might be because I enjoy Turn My Way and Slow Jam compared to a lot of people here, but I can't say I enjoy all songs on Low-Life or PC&L compared to the 2 latest opus.

Yeah, I must be the only one...

You are the only one.

Technique : Its all been downhill after that I think. Low Life Brotherhood Technique, and associated singles : I dont know if any band will ever reach that level ever. Whatever happened in those records was magic.

NO he's not. Get Ready is great, albeit a little inconsistent. WFTSC is the same. Never really got Brotherhood myself.

I think this band comes in peaks and troughs, so it's hard to answer this one. Ceremony's my favourite New Order track so I guess it's all been downhill for me since the day dot? And Low-Life's my desert island disc, by a country mile

Couldnt agree more

IMHO, Get Ready was the first album where New Order finally realised how to make an album with more than three good songs on it.

I've probably annoyed 3/4 of the people on the board here, but N.O were a singles band, realistically.

Bollocks.

great album tracks:

Movement- Dreams Never End PCL- Age of Consent Low Life- Sunrise Brotherhood- Paradise Technique- Vanishing Point Republic- Special Get Ready- Primitive Notion WFTSC- Turn

i'm relatively sure these were all album tracks anyway.

Clockwork C wrote:

Spotnick wrote: I am the only person on earth to rate Get Ready and WFTSC above of Low-Life and PC&L or what?

Don't get me wrong, it might be because I enjoy Turn My Way and Slow Jam compared to a lot of people here, but I can't say I enjoy all songs on Low-Life or PC&L compared to the 2 latest opus.

Yeah, I must be the only one...

You are the only one.

Technique : Its all been downhill after that I think. Low Life Brotherhood Technique, and associated singles : I dont know if any band will ever reach that level ever. Whatever happened in those records was magic.

Its hard to have hit, after hit in every album.

Uncle Liam wrote: Bollocks.

great album tracks:

Movement- Dreams Never End PCL- Age of Consent Low Life- Sunrise Brotherhood- Paradise Technique- Vanishing Point Republic- Special Get Ready- Primitive Notion WFTSC- Turn

i'm relatively sure these were all album tracks anyway.

All you need is a couple good songs per album and thats what makes it a good album.

go and actually listen to the albums and i'll think you'll find that most of them have more than a "couple of good songs"

hell, even the universally slated republic has four good songs (regret, EVeryone Everywhere, Special and World for the record)

Are you suggesting that each of the albums only has a couple of good songs?

First Off I really like the album cover...It's simple and direct. I wear the T-shirt and people know what it is and I think NO deserve that respect at this point. Even if they don't know what it is they wonder about it and that was what made the original covers great. They made you wonder...hhhmmmmmm

As for the albums they are typical NO...They don't blow your mind away but if you continue to listen you find that you just can't get em out of your head...barring jetstream and rock a shack.

Low-life is still my alltime favorite but I think what makes NO great is that you'll have every end of the spectrum on a forum telling you why they like this or hate that...so there's no formula. A very rare thing in music these days.

JUST AGREE WITH ME!!!!

((((E))))

Uncle Liam wrote: Bollocks.

great album tracks:

Movement- Dreams Never End PCL- Age of Consent Low Life- Sunrise Brotherhood- Paradise Technique- Vanishing Point Republic- Special Get Ready- Primitive Notion WFTSC- Turn

i'm relatively sure these were all album tracks anyway.

Dreams Never End = Mediocre. Truth is better. Age of Consent = Have to agree with you Sunrise = Horribly dated Paradise = Weirdo is far better Vanishing Point = All The Way is far better Special = Horrible. Young Offender all the way.

Technique's overrated...Sorry, just felt like saying that... Movement was a great album back in the 80s, I was very influenced by it. And Crystal rocks...best song I heard for about 15 years or so...

Uncle Liam wrote: go and actually listen to the albums and i'll think you'll find that most of them have more than a "couple of good songs"

hell, even the universally slated republic has four good songs (regret, EVeryone Everywhere, Special and World for the record)

Are you suggesting that each of the albums only has a couple of good songs?

YES.

Wasn't Republic the album containing just one decent song? Regret? Or something like that? Ahh, obviously Ruined In A Day is also on Republic, but the title's much better than the song...

Al Jarvis wrote: I think this band comes in peaks and troughs, so it's hard to answer this one. Ceremony's my favourite New Order track so I guess it's all been downhill for me since the day dot? And Low-Life's my desert island disc, by a country mile, so again that's 20 years they've been going downhill? Think the majority here would say Technique was the band's peak, but I'll be fuct if I can find anything on that album which even comes close to subsequent tracks like Regret and Crystal. It's just swings and roundabouts.

It is so reassuring to see an accurate assessment of both Low-life and Technique. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who feels this way.

Christopher Owens wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: go and actually listen to the albums and i'll think you'll find that most of them have more than a "couple of good songs"

hell, even the universally slated republic has four good songs (regret, EVeryone Everywhere, Special and World for the record)

Are you suggesting that each of the albums only has a couple of good songs?

YES.

Ok then. so what songs on Low life arent that good then?

Patrick wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote: I think this band comes in peaks and troughs, so it's hard to answer this one. Ceremony's my favourite New Order track so I guess it's all been downhill for me since the day dot? And Low-Life's my desert island disc, by a country mile, so again that's 20 years they've been going downhill? Think the majority here would say Technique was the band's peak, but I'll be fuct if I can find anything on that album which even comes close to subsequent tracks like Regret and Crystal. It's just swings and roundabouts.

It is so reassuring to see an accurate assessment of both Low-life and Technique. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who feels this way.

There's good and bad on every album.

The good usually outweighs the bad by far.

I just wish I had half the talent they had to make those songs.

((((e))))