Apologies if someone has already posted this here but this is from the August 2005 guitar player inteview and I think really gets into the mindset of Bernard and music.
I also love that Bernard basically only has two guitars (although this may be a slight exaggeration)
Synth-Pop Pioneers New Order Bring On the Loud, Noisy Guitars
Drunk with Power By Darrin Fox | August 2005
“New Order have always had one foot in the synth camp, and one foot in the guitar camp,” explains Bernard Sumner, New Order’s guitarist/keyboardist/vocalist. “I think people have a tendency to think of us as solely a synth-pop outfit, forgetting the fact that that we began as a guitar band with Joy Division.”
Bassist Peter Hook, vocalist Ian Curtis, drummer Stephen Morris, and Sumner (back when he was Bernard Albrecht), formed Joy Division after witnessing a life-altering Sex Pistols gig in 1977. It was Sumner’s apocalyptic post-punk riffing and chilly use of dissonance that was the sonic face of the band’s concrete-cold musical aesthetic. But after Curtis committed suicide in 1980, Sumner took over vocal duties, the group added keyboardist Gillian Gilbert, and New Order was born. For 1981’s Movement, the band’s sound was still in the Joy Division vein, with Sumner’s guitar still providing the bulk of the harmony. But, with 1983’s Power, Corruption & Lies, New Order began to hit its electro stride. The beats were more dance-infused and sequenced, and synthesizers became more prominent in the band’s overall sound. Around this time, Sumner even quit composing on the guitar.
“After all of the great guitar music of the ’60s, it seemed like all of the great riffs had been used,” he told GP in 1993. “I know that was naïve, but it was difficult for me to come up with something fresh on the guitar.”
But with 1993’s Republic, Sumner’s guitar freeze began to thaw, as more 6-string textures began finding their way into the grooves. And by the time Get Ready was released in 2001, the guitar was back in the mix big time—which proved to be a bit too much for the band’s longtime fans.
“We didn’t realize Get Ready was such a guitar-intensive record until we actually began touring for the album,” Sumner explains. “The songs received a decent reaction, but when we played the older, more synth-based numbers, the whole audience would start dancing! So we took the hint that our more dance-influenced side was an extremely important part of this band for a lot of people.”
To that end, New Order’s latest, Waiting for the Sirens’ Call [Warner Bros.], finds the band carefully checking in with its synth-pop roots. But the guitar insurgence that began in the ’90s has not let up, as Sirens’ Call is also a wall-to-wall guitar record. One reason is the addition of guitarist Phil Cunningham. Originally brought in as a second guitarist for the Get Ready tour, Sumner and company decided to bring Cunningham in as a contributor to the writing process for the new album. Cunningham, a veteran of Brit-pop outfits Marion and Electronic (an on-again/off-again Sumner/Johnny Marr collaboration), is a stone-cold guitar dude. A perfect yin to Sumner’s somewhat anti-guitar yang.
Phil, was it somewhat intimidating to be involved in the New Order writing process? Cunningham: It was. When they invited me into the studio, I was well aware of the fact that, when it comes to writing with people, sometimes you have the chemistry, and sometimes you don’t. Luckily, everything worked out. Sumner: Having Phil involved in the writing process also gave us an overabundance of material. See, we write songs two ways. One way is me sitting in front of a computer with a guitar or a synth and constructing a track brick-by-brick. The other way is getting myself, Hookey [bassist Peter Hook], and our drummer Stephen together in a room and jamming. In that scenario, we would typically come up with three solid ideas, and then I would go off and write melodies and lyrics for those ideas. The problem with that way of working, however, was that when I left, the whole writing process came to a halt, because there wasn’t a guitarist around. But this time, when I left, Phil was there, and they could continue on.
You guys used three different producers for Sirens’ Call. Why? Sumner: Well, choosing a producer is difficult. You can listen to the music they’ve made with other artists, but you never know how much of the end result is the band, and how much is actually the producer. Believe me, a lot of producers sit around and do nothing. Even worse, they can be a stubborn ass who works in a way that is totally alien from the way you’re used to. So to agree to do a whole album with someone you’ve never worked with is always a bit daunting. In the past we’ve had our fingers burnt, although I won’t say by whom.
What gear was used to track the new record? Cunningham: Before New Order, I always plugged a Les Paul into a Marshall stack. I guess that’s a product of my classic rock upbringing. But when I joined the band, Bernard wouldn’t allow me to use my Marshalls [laughs]. So I started using Vox AC30s, and I’ve grown to love them. Sumner: The Marshall/Les Paul thing has been so done to death. New Order has always been about at least trying to do something new. Cunningham: We had our pick of about six Vox AC30s and an old Fender Princeton. I still use Les Pauls live, but for the album, I used a Gretsch Chet Atkins and a Gibson SG. But the guitar that found its way onto the record the most was Bernard’s ’60s Gibson ES-330. That’s a special guitar. I tried 15 other ones, and they never got close to the magic that particular one has. Sumner: That guitar is great for the studio, but it’s not so great live because it howls like mad! I used that guitar a lot, as well as a ’60s Gibson SG Junior—which I’m using live, as well.
Phil, you’ve worked with both Johnny Marr and Bernard. How different are their respective attitudes toward the instrument? Cunningham: Totally different. Johnny is “Mr. Guitar.” You go to his studio, and he has books on the history of guitar, and a spare room full of every guitar you could possibly name. He’s obsessed with all things guitar. Bernard, on the other hand, has two guitars, and he uses them strictly as song generators.
Bernard, how would you describe your guitar style? Sumner: I just try to keep what I do very basic, but I make sure that what I do is good basic. I’m not a virtuoso. For me, the guitar is simply a tool to make a track exciting because it’s a very punk instrument.
What about when you both play guitar? Do you gravitate toward certain roles? Cunningham: Bernard’s playing is more simple and direct, whereas I’m a bit flashier. Sometimes when he plays, you think to yourself, “God, what is he doing now?” It’s like he’s just learning the instrument! But he likes it that way, because it’s fresh every time he picks up the guitar. In fact, he was saying the other day that, as a guitarist, he doesn’t think he’s any better than he was when he started in Joy Division.
Bernard, is that true? Sumner: Yeah. I’m no more accomplished on the instrument than I was in 1979. I reached a level long ago where I was good enough to write songs, and I like to keep it that way. I’m not a big fan of virtuosity, because it’s not how you play that counts, it’s what you play—right? If you read a book, for instance, you don’t look at the typography, or how well laid out it is, you focus on the story. Also, I feel there’s something to be said for playing guitar with your brain, not just your hands. If you’re not amazingly articulate from practicing scales every day for five hours, there’s a certain crudeness to what you do. But you make up for that by using your imagination.
