Joy Division and New Order are two separate bands

And the people putting out the new "Singles" album, as well as the upcoming "Item" DVD must think the same way. "Item" doesn't have one Joy Division video on it, (not counting JD material on the NewOrderStory documentary), and "Singles" doesn't have any Joy Division singles on it.

I think I remember someone saying in an earlier discussion on this subject, that if the surviving members of Joy Division didn't change their name, there wouldn't be any discussion on whether or not they are the same band. Well, in my view, the name change is a pretty big first clue in itself that New Order and Joy Division are not the same band. :)

When people ask me who my all-time favorite band is, I say Joy Division. And that New Order are my second favorite band.

I leave this one up to you. There is no wrong opinion on this one.

The band themselves think they are the same band, but for obvious reasons they sound quite different.

To be they are 2 different bands. I can hear New Order all day long. Joy Division I can take only in small doses, because its just too unsettling (to me).

Funny enough, depending of my variations of thoughts and mood over the years, at first i never felt huge differences between the 1st and the later (a.k.a. NEWorder), for a time i was feeling they were 2 very separate bands, but in final, in my humble feel on the topic, there's so many interlinks that, yeah, for the last 10 years, i couldn't see them otherwise as one and the same, just a natural evolution from start to date. And, yes, it's pretty sad that none of Joy Division's actually on 'Item'. Well...

I would not be too surprised if there wasn't a nice new JD DVD soon. Not that I have any inside info.

They are separate- if they weren't then they wouldn't have changed their name; they wanted a new beginning when they did this.

It might have been better not to change their name, but on balance it was a good idea as it injected new energy and a new focus, indeed; a NEW ORDER.

P.S. I love Joy Division and I hope that an official DVD of performance clips and singles will be released... maybe after the 'Control' film?

I don't class them as the same band, i think it's important to make that distinction.

JD's sound was so different to No's i don't think they would've evolved into the same band they are now if they had stayed down the JD route.don't get me wrong i like JD but i like New Order more and always will.

Look at Audioslave, i don't class them as soundgarden or RATM. even though they play each others hits live

Spotnick wrote: For the record... it's not the same company that owns the right for Joy Division AND New Order.

You don't pay licensing to the same people.

And you have to pay Debbie Curtis some rights if you do put any Joy Division tracks on there.

I don't know how they arranged that with Phil/Gillian, but there are plenty of reasons why they didn't include Joy Division songs.

But Warner's compilation "20 years of New Order" does include Joy Division songs on it.

that must be complicated?

sorry to sound dumb here but...if they're both signed to London records won't london own the rights?

Different publishing companies, and different deals were struck with London for JD and NO back catalogues.

I think of them as the same, other bands have gone through more dramatic changes from their early days (like pink floyd) and kept the same name. Having said that I think it's better to not have a joint compilation or any other overlap unless its a live version of a JD song...

I think of them as one band too, if you listen to the second half of closer you can hear the direction they we're heading off to musically at least. It's not a huge leap from their to Power, Corruption & Lies.

while i really like JD, i like the direction they took as new order after they recorded movement (trying too hard to emulate the sound they had with ian, in my opinion). whether or not i consider them two separate bands...i don't know. there would be no new order without joy division and they haven't gone through line-up changes (except out of necessity), so i suppose it's just a matter of evolution. but new order are my favourite band, not joy division.

so i guess that's a maybe?