D Mode vs New order

since i live in the states(los angeles). who has got more popularity and respect in england, new order or d m?? the answer here in LA is d m.. maybe its b-coz they(dm) have done bigger events. almost everyone i know that likes new wave music always seems to be in love with dm, not to say they dont love new order, but it always seems like dm has got the edge.

just wondering.....

nuordr4life

So you come on a New Order website, and ask who is more popular, New Order or Depeche Mode? Yep, that sure it clever.

And by the way, it's 'because' not 'b-coz'

kino zon wrote: since i live in the states(los angeles). who has got more popularity and respect in england, new order or d m?? the answer here in LA is d m.. maybe its b-coz they(dm) have done bigger events. almost everyone i know that likes new wave music always seems to be in love with dm, not to say they dont love new order, but it always seems like dm has got the edge.

just wondering.....

nuordr4life

This is possibly the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here! Who are this DM posse to whom you refer, septic youth?

And thats quite an achievement!

oldmonkey wrote:

kino zon wrote: since i live in the states(los angeles). who has got more popularity and respect in england, new order or d m?? the answer here in LA is d m.. maybe its b-coz they(dm) have done bigger events. almost everyone i know that likes new wave music always seems to be in love with dm, not to say they dont love new order, but it always seems like dm has got the edge.

just wondering.....

nuordr4life

This is possibly the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here! Who are this DM posse to whom you refer, septic youth?

Doc Martens. Get with it Tim.

no comment!

If one can be bothered to have a look, it would seem that Depeche Mode have had more commercial success in the US compared to New Order but don't have the critical respect that Barney & Co. garner here in the UK. They tend to get compared (albeit most of the time in a lazy fashion) as 80's synth bands that are still hanging around in the present.

My wife is a Depeche fanatic and I am just jealous of how she gets great single box set reissues (6 of them! Imagine if this was applied to the Order's output) as well as a recent 3 disc remix set. And I have to say that if their new single PRECIOUS is anything to go by than she'll soon be listening to a more than decent LP.

There is no rivalry between the bands themselves and there is no real need for it between fans. In fact, I'm sure there is quite a shared interest from either side in the other.

Very well put Sir.

Whats the difference? New Order are the equivalent of a good shag-DM are just a quick wank.

**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote: Whats the difference? New Order are the equivalent of a good shag-DM are just a quick wank.

Oh no, not this old wrinkled chestnut again.

Where's the latest Gallup vs Hooky discussion / debate / handbag swinging extravaganza then????

SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERYBODY!!!!!

thanx nick, sorry if i irritated some of the noolers by asking this question. i was just curious.

kino zon wrote: who has got more popularity and respect in basildon, new order or d m??

most likely: depeche mode.

wow. hostility! it seems that dm, cure and new order are kind of linked in the overall american mind. people that listen to one tend to listen to them all (to varying degrees). i've got stuff by all three, most people i know that are into any are into them all... i listened to the cure a lot when i was younger, one of my friends was really into depeche mode, we got eachother into the other, then we both found out about joy division... our love of cure and dm diminished by the fact that jd was earlier and better... but then i found out about new order and nearly forgot all three...

**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote: Whats the difference? New Order are the equivalent of a good shag-DM are just a quick wank.

New order= succulent steak Dm=Tinned beefburgers

Relatively speaking....

Boatraceface wrote:

**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote: Whats the difference? New Order are the equivalent of a good shag-DM are just a quick wank.

New order= succulent steak Dm=Tinned beefburgers

Relatively speaking....

i happen to like tinned beefburgers, sir!

Erm, anything vegetarian at this banquet?

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Erm, anything vegetarian at this banquet?

Its New Order vs Depeche Mode,not Wings

AgentWood wrote:

Boatraceface wrote:

**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote: Whats the difference? New Order are the equivalent of a good shag-DM are just a quick wank.

New order= succulent steak Dm=Tinned beefburgers

Relatively speaking....

i happen to like tinned beefburgers, sir!

so do I,but I prefer the formers ..by far

Depeche Mode vs. New Order?

Superficial poseurs vs. guys posturing as rock/pop stars

or for a meat analogy, Depeche Mode is like a microwaved Whopper from Burger King vs. Pot Roast with carrots, potatoes and onions... depends on what you want

WTF is "Tinned BeefBurger"? seriously, i must really led a sheltered life... i've missed out on so much

Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dosgers Stadium?

I like 'em both, obviously New Order more, but they both have there classics, and have both done their bit to evolve the music scene.

Boatraceface wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Erm, anything vegetarian at this banquet?

Its New Order vs Depeche Mode,not Wings

But if we brought Moz in...

We'd eat him,but he would taste of lentils:dead:

"Meat is Murder" Mozzer once said....he forgot to mention it is fuckin delicious tho

I think that in the UK that new Order probably get more respect because a) Joy Division was a sort of Black sabbath of alternative and b) they never went through a "boy band phase" like Depeche Mode did. However, in the US Mode gets more respect because a) most Americans aren't aware of DM's "boy band phase" and b) DM has had much more commercial success at leat in the US. Just my two cents.

Christopher Owens wrote: Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dodgers Stadium?

Yeah, Their debut gigs. Sat, Aug 04 1990 and Sun, Aug 05 1990.

Danimal wrote: I think that in the UK that new Order probably get more respect because a) Joy Division was a sort of Black sabbath of alternative and b) they never went through a "boy band phase" like Depeche Mode did. However, in the US Mode gets more respect because a) most Americans aren't aware of DM's "boy band phase" and b) DM has had much more commercial success at leat in the US. Just my two cents.

DM's Boy Band phase was very brief. As soon as Alan Wilder joined and they did "Get the Balance Right," they were far past being a boy band.

Suffice to say though, as a result, in the UK at least Depeche Mode would certainly corner more of the market in the late 30's bored suburban housewife market!

I cannot believe you just said that!

Al Jarvis wrote:

Chris Nash wrote: Nowt wrong with Teardrop Explodes Al!

And I never knew you could get beefburgers in tins. *wants a tin of beefburgers now*

Schoolgirls developing crushes on Julian Cope. Now that's just weird!

Tinned beefbugers?! When I were a lad you could get tinned sausage rolls. Haven't seen them for 20+ years but can still taste them now. Scrummy!

Yes, Courtney Love is weird.

Nick M wrote: If one can be bothered to have a look, it would seem that Depeche Mode have had more commercial success in the US compared to New Order but don't have the critical respect that Barney & Co. garner here in the UK. They tend to get compared (albeit most of the time in a lazy fashion) as 80's synth bands that are still hanging around in the present.

My wife is a Depeche fanatic and I am just jealous of how she gets great single box set reissues (6 of them! Imagine if this was applied to the Order's output) as well as a recent 3 disc remix set. And I have to say that if their new single PRECIOUS is anything to go by than she'll soon be listening to a more than decent LP.

There is no rivalry between the bands themselves and there is no real need for it between fans. In fact, I'm sure there is quite a shared interest from either side in the other.

Exectly, Depeche Mode & New Order are the same, yet different. Each has created their own niche in the music world. I love them both

I think Depeche Mode is more popular in America because Americans are more shallow. The posers like them.

pumped full of drugs wrote: I think Depeche Mode is more popular in America because American's are more shallow. The posers like them

They like Pink Floyd.

Nuff said.

(Who is nuff, by the way? Is he related to Kilroy?)

New Order were a supposedly "hip" and "credible" band from the moment they started taking their first shaky steps post-Ian, so didn't have any embarrassing legacy to taint their career (well, shall we just forget some of the Republic-era videos for being a tad on the Duran Duran / Sting side then shall we?), whilst Depeche Mode started off like a futurist version of the Monkees or summat. Really awful. But even when Alan Wilder joined them after Vince Clarke left to form Yazoo, they were still making dodgy singles - the lyrics on Everything Counts were truly awful. And....People Are People! Ha ha ha ha ha haaaa - that, along with The War Song by Culture Club, must have really got the masses undertaking revolutionary street protests in their millions!

I'd say Depeche Mode only started getting better from late 1986 onwards, when their music became darker and more industrial sounding, but then this was only cos they took influences from German acts like Einsturzende Neubauten and US composers like Philip Glass (wasn't there a blatant Koyannisqatsi rip off on Black Celebration sung by Martin Gore?). They got bigger and bigger from this point and went ballistic in the US by the time of the Violator album, which was their best record anyway. After that the Rock God thing went to the singer's head and he was memorably mocked at by a music paper for looking like "Chris Cornell of Soundgarden crossed with Mr Bean" - which I thought was hilarious and the analogy has never left my head to this day.

They were probably as big as U2 by this point anyway, so the band decided to go absolutely excessive by caning as much shit as their huge world tour rider could afford them. All four band members were drug-fucked off their faces to some degree but Dave Gahan took it to the limit - his Jesus Christ crucifixion posing on stage and Michael Hutchence-lite mannerisms meant there was only one way forward - hedonistic self-destruction. And the silly sod couldn't even do that properly!!

Remember his immortal quote when he heard that Kurt Cobain had topped himself ? "I was really pissed off cos I wanted to go that way myself. I remember thinking that would have been me!! I was fully set on being a rock'n'roll martyr in my own eyes! That was how screwed up I was at the time...."

Wilder got pissed off with the rest of the band's crazy excesses eventually and decided to carry on with his solo stuff didn't he? I have to admit that without him their sound really lacks a lot of the bite that they had during their peak period 1987 - 1993. He was their one true virtuoso musician and "sound sculptor" - as readily admitted by the rest of the band he left behind.

The fact they're still going after all this shows that there must be some sort of survival instinct raging within them though.....so they're no different from New Order in that one respect.

Christopher Owens wrote: Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dosgers Stadium?

yes, they did in 1990. I was there and will never forget it. i was probably more excited to see electronic than DM. they were both great. nitzer ebb weren't bad either.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Wilder got pissed off with the rest of the band's crazy excesses eventually and decided to carry on with his solo stuff didn't he? I have to admit that without him their sound really lacks a lot of the bite that they had during their peak period 1987 - 1993. He was their one true virtuoso musician and "sound sculptor" - as readily admitted by the rest of the band he left behind.

The fact they're still going after all this shows that there must be some sort of survival instinct raging within them though.....so they're no different from New Order in that one respect.

you're dead-on about DM's sound post-Wilder. he really made gore's songs shine with his arrangements and as you said "sound sculpting". i always thought Ultra was a good album, but with wilder's touches it could have been great.

i also agree with your statement about their survival instinct. they've pushed on through all the bullshit.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Erm, anything vegetarian at this banquet?

The Smiths

even though i think depeche are a fine band,and have a fair bit of history behind them and some top tunes to boot ,i think that comparing new order to them or any other band from that era is bonkers really. sure depeche,duran,even flock of bloody seagulls have had more sucsess stateside than new order,but lets face it new order plowed the furrow for this lot to follow and all of these bands u2 included would give their left nut to have the critical aclaim that new order have received over the years. oh and we havnt mentioned joy division yet have we??now there is a whole other ball game. when you look at the works of sumner/morris/hook over those two bands alone never mind side projects, all the others combined cant hold a candle to them. well thats just my opinion for what its worth.

Nick M wrote: If one can be bothered to have a look, it would seem that Depeche Mode have had more commercial success in the US compared to New Order but don't have the critical respect that Barney & Co. garner here in the UK. They tend to get compared (albeit most of the time in a lazy fashion) as 80's synth bands that are still hanging around in the present.

My wife is a Depeche fanatic and I am just jealous of how she gets great single box set reissues (6 of them! Imagine if this was applied to the Order's output) as well as a recent 3 disc remix set. And I have to say that if their new single PRECIOUS is anything to go by than she'll soon be listening to a more than decent LP.

There is no rivalry between the bands themselves and there is no real need for it between fans. In fact, I'm sure there is quite a shared interest from either side in the other.

Hear Hear!! Makes me cringe seeing people knocking DM,I'm a big NO fan,but I've got nearly as much in DM 12" vinyl.Going back to the original question,DM haven't got the same aclaim as NO in UK....or so I thought!! PRECIOUS has just gone in the new TOP 40 chart..at number 4!!

Same here, it's my other half Lorraine who has all the Depeche Mode (and Smiths) records....well, everything from 1986 onwards that is, she too was no real fan of their dodgier pre-Black Celebration era.

Chuckles wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote: Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dosgers Stadium?

yes, they did in 1990. I was there and will never forget it. i was probably more excited to see electronic than DM. they were both great. nitzer ebb weren't bad either.

Nitzer Ebb were fucking great - and still sound fucking great. I got into them just before Technique as New Order were making reference to Balearic Beats in almost every interview, so I bought Balearic Beats Vol.1, which was mostly shit apart from Join in the Chant by Nitzer Ebb. Which was still being played to death in Ibiza this summer.

The NME (when it was good)also referred to Nitzer Ebb as being like New Order in remix form.

If you like the electronic elements of New Order, I strongly recommend That Total Age, Belief, and Showtime, by Nitzer Ebb.

Oh dear, you're all wrong! DM were great before Vince left and godawful afterwards. Spritely electropop (with the emphasis on POP!) before, and on a slow slide towards rock cliche afterwards. What they created with those early singles was something all of their own (alright not quite their own, Soft Cell, Yello, YMO etc)- take Dreaming Of Me with its sparkling synths and weird harmony vocals. Look beyond the haircuts! They were smart enough to avoid becoming just another Cabaret Voltaire/Throbbing Gristle clone and to head for the charts. Bringing in the industrial sctick afterwards was an interesting, but ultimately pretty boring, move. Gahan's downfall was utterly stupid and tedious - we really need another rock and roll corpse, don't we? And maybe that's at the root of the popularity in the USA - they fitted the bill for what a proper rock band should be, with a tortured artist on lead vocs, drugs habits and a few half-assed, but easy to digest, lyrics about the big issues.

I think the 'By 'Eck, My Neck' is right that NO were ultra-cred from the start. Maybe DM's pop years were something to live down if you're bothered about such nonsense as hipster cred, but I doubt that made much difference to the typical punter. I think DM built a pretty big fanbase during the early years who stayed with them and got comfortable with all the changes. I don't really know who has a bigger fanbase in the UK now, but I'd guess DM.

i still don't understand why the order get lumped in with dm & the cure in america.

enjoy the silence was pleasant enough (& the video was directed by anton corbijn wasn't it?) but other than that not really seen anything in depish.

as for the cure, seen them twice. boring bunch of gits live.

Clearly there's no comparison, NO are the real thing, DM are still the lightweight teeny pop band they started as, regardless of how many times Gahan turns blue and stops breathing.

Having said that, I happily listen to DM occasionally, sometimes you want lightweight teeny pop.

What i want to know is how Depeche Mode become so big in the States? I think they're pretty good but I've never quite understood why they made it so big. Enjoy the Silence was good but it does owe a lot to New Order and the Pet Shop Boys. I guess New Order get more cred because they were more alternative, at least through the 80s, had more classic songs and a better band.

I'd be a fan of DM & The Cure, prefer NO though

I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

((((e))))

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

Jonathan wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

so could i. one of the worst songs ever.

"And give me support And in return She'll get my support"

fantastic rhyming.

Who are D Mode ?

Jonathan wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

And Barney writes great lyrics? "it beats arithmetic."

Kind of like saying "Tom Hanks is a bad actor, remember Joe vs The Volcano?"

Bands with catologues as vast as New Order's or Depeche Mode's are bound to have songs with amazing lyrics and some with horrible lyrics.

I think they also did themselves no favours naming themselves after a French magazine. Depeche Mode is a loose translation of "Hurried Fashion" and I suppose it's quite apt in the context.......mind you the French audiences were very wary of them when they first emerged mainly cos of the name - when they found out they were lily-livered Essex boys from a suburban London backwater their suspicions were justified.

However, they really should have changed their name when Vince Clarke - their founder member - buggered off to link up with some big burly Dr Feelgood-obsessed female brickie from Southend.

They should have re-named themselves Depressed Toad.

;)

Why, if you're into NO, aren't you allowed to be into DM or The Cure? That's an attitude I've never understood. Can anyone explain? (And yes, this is a serious question!)

To be honest, I don't mind enjoying all three myself. Though of course NO/JD figure most prominently throughout whereas with the Cure and Depeche Mode its only a specific period of their work that I have much time for really.

I only enjoyed the Mode's stuff between 1987 and 1994 whilst the Cure should have stopped making records after their best pop album Head On The Door cos everything they have done since is retreading the same tired old formula (but then, aren't NO as guilty of this as fat Smith & co?).

Jonathan wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

when i was about 13, my friends and i used to sit around in our dorm singing along to this song and talking about how deep and romantic it was. :o

I started off listening to Depeche Mode and New Order a fuck of a lot once I started getting into 'real music'.. (don't even ask what I did before that), but you know, DM have really worn on me over the years, their songs are starting to sound samey, formulaic, and not really.. varied enough. They don't seem to have the kick to them that makes me want to listen to them like a good round of Temptation, or Round & Round, or virtually any of New Order's catalogue..

Yeah, I've really gone off DM. Admittedly I like the piano riff off this new single, but apart from that it's quite bland. Was buying something in Virgin and the DJ said "I could play this 70 times if I was allowed to, brilliant track" and I felt like screaming. Argggh.

I think the secret of DM's success in the US is not only the music,but the lavish stage sets they took on tour.It's the old "if you're gonna do big..do it bigger". With the word of mouth about the "Music For The Masses" tour in the US,it was inevitable that they'd fill the likes of the Rosebowl,boosting whatever record sales they already had. By the time the "Devotional" tour came out,armed with great visuals by Corbijn,they just blew out every electro live band out of the water. New Order on the other hand,they're success in UK relies on our love for the music,no trimmings.What you see is what you get.

Al Jarvis wrote:

hibster wrote: i still don't understand why the order get lumped in with dm & the cure in america.

You might when you meet the American New Order fans! :(

Why did I just picture you describing Chruchy there?

Seriously, it's because they were played on the same radio stations, and radio in the US is segmented beyond belief, and there's a small subset that likes to flog the next best thing from the UK, whether it's the British Invasion, New Wave, or the lastest round of what seems to happen about every 20 years...

Gotta agree about the lyrics to "Somebody", but those were from 1985, what about some of the stuff that NO wrote more recently, like J.E.T...or Rock the shack...etc etc

The Happy One wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

hibster wrote: i still don't understand why the order get lumped in with dm & the cure in america.

You might when you meet the American New Order fans! :(

Seriously, it's because they were played on the same radio stations, and radio in the US is segmented beyond belief,

That has been my impression of US radio whenever I've been there (repeating myself from pet peeves thread). There's something really incredibly annoying about it, the way everything is so cynically demographically targeted.

Even when they are playing stuff I like (e.g. some self-conciously 'alternative' station like Q101) I find myself missing the innocent naffness of Smashie and Nicey. I'd rather they occasionally played something I hated, poxy Bon Jovi or something, rather than be pandered to in such a cynical way. At least then there'd be a chance they'd play something good I didn't know, rather than just playing my own cd collection back to me. Plus their catagories are all fouled up anyway (e.g. DM and NO lumped in together).

Anyway, even though I agree DM aren't remotely in the same league as NO, and Gahan's bad lyrics are an altogether higher level of awfulness than Barny's occasional lapses ('land of meat'??? 'you can't shaft when you are alone'???). I still am a bit bemused by the near panic some self-conciously cool types display whenever anyone hear mentions the former. Its all just pop music ultimately, no?

Feel free to slate me for this, but as a fan of both bands, I think that Depeche Mode have been the more adventurous, creative and consistent over the years. New Order started off with some fantastic, innovative music and descended into poppier territory, whilst Depeche Mode did the opposite. I think it's pretty much a certainty that Depeche Mode have sold more records than New Order ever have or will... still, New Order's finest work beats most of Depeche Mode's.

The one thing that both groups have in common is that they both make some fantastic dance music.

I always heard that Depeche Mode wasn't as big in their native England as they were in the U.S., or even continental Europe. I remember reading something about how they were considered sell-outs for especially catering to the Americans and trying to break it big.

Still, DM is one of my favorite bands. Actually, second fave behind the Order, but I don't necessarily think they are too alike in their respective genre.

Al Jarvis wrote:

DShamen wrote: Feel free to slate me for this, but as a fan of both bands, I think that Depeche Mode have been the more adventurous, creative and consistent over the years. New Order started off with some fantastic, innovative music and descended into poppier territory, whilst Depeche Mode did the opposite.

Isn't this just a mass of contradictions?! Depeche Mode have been more adventurous but also consistent?! And yet New Order have been innovative. Er, but poppy?! Whilst Depeche Mode have done the opposite?!

Are you a politician?!

Forgive me for having a few beers last night... what I meant is that Depeche Mode are NOW the more creative of the two I feel, whilst New Order have basically produced the same sounds for the best part of 15 years. Depeche Mode seem to take more risks now than New Order do, I can't see anything being particularly mind blowing on the new album... I hope I'm wrong.

Err... Sorry already for this, but just hearing the new Depeche album through the radio today and I can't help feeling that it's not too good I'm afraid... I already felt a bit lost with the previous one, so... In my little humble opinion 'Ultra' was the last excellent proper album. In regard 'WftSc' is much better even if it's quite vintage.

DShamen wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

DShamen wrote: Feel free to slate me for this, but as a fan of both bands, I think that Depeche Mode have been the more adventurous, creative and consistent over the years. New Order started off with some fantastic, innovative music and descended into poppier territory, whilst Depeche Mode did the opposite.

Isn't this just a mass of contradictions?! Depeche Mode have been more adventurous but also consistent?! And yet New Order have been innovative. Er, but poppy?! Whilst Depeche Mode have done the opposite?!

Are you a politician?!

Forgive me for having a few beers last night... what I meant is that Depeche Mode are NOW the more creative of the two I feel, whilst New Order have basically produced the same sounds for the best part of 15 years. Depeche Mode seem to take more risks now than New Order do, I can't see anything being particularly mind blowing on the new album... I hope I'm wrong.

as much as i would like to disagree with you, i think you might be right , WFTSC was good but not groundbreaking, NO in the past were always groundbreaking and innovative, now they're great but dont break new ground, DM nowadays whilst not being great, at least try to be innovative,...

How can you answer seriously to an absolutely ridiculous question. They are simply not comparative. New Order are New Order yes? They have not, as far as I can see (who likes lots of different music) really made any steps to conform to 'what Joe Public' want at all. I personally love WFTSC but I used to like the old DM stuff in their day. Depeche Mode have conformed and badly. This latest is the most drab boring repetitive dross I have ever heard as is much else in the charts - although I am coming round to Supergrass! Depeche Mode were always about a synth and a hairstyle. Still are. It's like trying to compare W H Auden to Shakespeare. Or Enid Blyton to Shakespeare come to that..... If you like both, fine, but please don't try to compare... Take a carrot and a cucumber for example; there's a thought!

Wino wrote: How can you answer seriously to an absolutely ridiculous question. They are simply not comparative. New Order are New Order yes? They have not, as far as I can see (who likes lots of different music) really made any steps to conform to 'what Joe Public' want at all. I personally love WFTSC but I used to like the old DM stuff in their day. Depeche Mode have conformed and badly. This latest is the most drab boring repetitive dross I have ever heard as is much else in the charts - although I am coming round to Supergrass! Depeche Mode were always about a synth and a hairstyle. Still are. It's like trying to compare W H Auden to Shakespeare. Or Enid Blyton to Shakespeare come to that..... If you like both, fine, but please don't try to compare... Take a carrot and a cucumber for example; there's a thought!

i understand what your saying, i love NO - always will do, but i'm concerned that nowadays they try to be 'poptastic' and appear with the bird from the scissor sisters etc. WFTSC was a good album but not great and definetely not cutting edge like technique and low life were. At least DM are trying to be innovative nowadays - but they'll never be on a par with NO...

poptastic

I don't think they are at all.When I first heard the album, some of the tracks made me smile purely because they had a certain 'old' feel to them - look how the single has dropped in the charts. I hate to admit but we have Radio2 on at work all day; they played it for about a week once a day and that was your lot. DM is played constantly and I stand by my case here, it is dull, lifeless and hopelessly awful. DM seem to be under the illusion that the music doesn't count anymore - all head for the salon!! "Make up" "Cameras, light, action" oh, don't bother everyones gone to sleep.

Wino wrote:

poptastic

I don't think they are at all.When I first heard the album, some of the tracks made me smile purely because they had a certain 'old' feel to them - look how the single has dropped in the charts. I hate to admit but we have Radio2 on at work all day; they played it for about a week once a day and that was your lot. DM is played constantly and I stand by my case here, it is dull, lifeless and hopelessly awful. DM seem to be under the illusion that the music doesn't count anymore - all head for the salon!! "Make up" "Cameras, light, action" oh, don't bother everyones gone to sleep.

your probably right, DM are shit! i'm just concerned that NO arent as cutting edge as they used to be and that saddens me..

Let's sum it up in a sentence or two.

DM are generally disposable, but attempt to be edgy to grab the gothy/poppy crowd.

NO are generally more durable, but do sometimes edge towards the indie/NME style crowd to gain a bit of attention. Or maybe that's entirely unintentional, or at least on part of the band themselves!

i'm not familar with the new Depeche Mode record or who produced it, and New Order has really given up on trying to be cutting edge or experiemntal, that is true... but to me its absurd to call Depeche Mode more experimental, because their last few albums have been a produced product, not much different from Madonna (just throw some money at a producer to give them a sound, to make a washed up has-been sound superficially modern)... and Depeche Mode's personality has stayed the cliche course to meet their fans expectations.

At least New Order is a real working band (if well past their peak creatively) and has tried many different things over the last two albums, most people have complained about some of these New order "missteps" but at least the guys seem to be having fun.

You can check out the new album here

http://www.myspace.com/depechemode

((((e))))

is it mandatory?

Wino wrote: is it mandatory?

yes!!!

OK - it's saturday night, and for once I've got nothing better to do, so .... come back to you.