D Mode vs New order

Suffice to say though, as a result, in the UK at least Depeche Mode would certainly corner more of the market in the late 30's bored suburban housewife market!

I cannot believe you just said that!

Al Jarvis wrote:

Chris Nash wrote: Nowt wrong with Teardrop Explodes Al!

And I never knew you could get beefburgers in tins. *wants a tin of beefburgers now*

Schoolgirls developing crushes on Julian Cope. Now that's just weird!

Tinned beefbugers?! When I were a lad you could get tinned sausage rolls. Haven't seen them for 20+ years but can still taste them now. Scrummy!

Yes, Courtney Love is weird.

Nick M wrote: If one can be bothered to have a look, it would seem that Depeche Mode have had more commercial success in the US compared to New Order but don't have the critical respect that Barney & Co. garner here in the UK. They tend to get compared (albeit most of the time in a lazy fashion) as 80's synth bands that are still hanging around in the present.

My wife is a Depeche fanatic and I am just jealous of how she gets great single box set reissues (6 of them! Imagine if this was applied to the Order's output) as well as a recent 3 disc remix set. And I have to say that if their new single PRECIOUS is anything to go by than she'll soon be listening to a more than decent LP.

There is no rivalry between the bands themselves and there is no real need for it between fans. In fact, I'm sure there is quite a shared interest from either side in the other.

Exectly, Depeche Mode & New Order are the same, yet different. Each has created their own niche in the music world. I love them both

I think Depeche Mode is more popular in America because Americans are more shallow. The posers like them.

pumped full of drugs wrote: I think Depeche Mode is more popular in America because American's are more shallow. The posers like them

They like Pink Floyd.

Nuff said.

(Who is nuff, by the way? Is he related to Kilroy?)

New Order were a supposedly "hip" and "credible" band from the moment they started taking their first shaky steps post-Ian, so didn't have any embarrassing legacy to taint their career (well, shall we just forget some of the Republic-era videos for being a tad on the Duran Duran / Sting side then shall we?), whilst Depeche Mode started off like a futurist version of the Monkees or summat. Really awful. But even when Alan Wilder joined them after Vince Clarke left to form Yazoo, they were still making dodgy singles - the lyrics on Everything Counts were truly awful. And....People Are People! Ha ha ha ha ha haaaa - that, along with The War Song by Culture Club, must have really got the masses undertaking revolutionary street protests in their millions!

I'd say Depeche Mode only started getting better from late 1986 onwards, when their music became darker and more industrial sounding, but then this was only cos they took influences from German acts like Einsturzende Neubauten and US composers like Philip Glass (wasn't there a blatant Koyannisqatsi rip off on Black Celebration sung by Martin Gore?). They got bigger and bigger from this point and went ballistic in the US by the time of the Violator album, which was their best record anyway. After that the Rock God thing went to the singer's head and he was memorably mocked at by a music paper for looking like "Chris Cornell of Soundgarden crossed with Mr Bean" - which I thought was hilarious and the analogy has never left my head to this day.

They were probably as big as U2 by this point anyway, so the band decided to go absolutely excessive by caning as much shit as their huge world tour rider could afford them. All four band members were drug-fucked off their faces to some degree but Dave Gahan took it to the limit - his Jesus Christ crucifixion posing on stage and Michael Hutchence-lite mannerisms meant there was only one way forward - hedonistic self-destruction. And the silly sod couldn't even do that properly!!

Remember his immortal quote when he heard that Kurt Cobain had topped himself ? "I was really pissed off cos I wanted to go that way myself. I remember thinking that would have been me!! I was fully set on being a rock'n'roll martyr in my own eyes! That was how screwed up I was at the time...."

Wilder got pissed off with the rest of the band's crazy excesses eventually and decided to carry on with his solo stuff didn't he? I have to admit that without him their sound really lacks a lot of the bite that they had during their peak period 1987 - 1993. He was their one true virtuoso musician and "sound sculptor" - as readily admitted by the rest of the band he left behind.

The fact they're still going after all this shows that there must be some sort of survival instinct raging within them though.....so they're no different from New Order in that one respect.

Christopher Owens wrote: Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dosgers Stadium?

yes, they did in 1990. I was there and will never forget it. i was probably more excited to see electronic than DM. they were both great. nitzer ebb weren't bad either.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Wilder got pissed off with the rest of the band's crazy excesses eventually and decided to carry on with his solo stuff didn't he? I have to admit that without him their sound really lacks a lot of the bite that they had during their peak period 1987 - 1993. He was their one true virtuoso musician and "sound sculptor" - as readily admitted by the rest of the band he left behind.

The fact they're still going after all this shows that there must be some sort of survival instinct raging within them though.....so they're no different from New Order in that one respect.

you're dead-on about DM's sound post-Wilder. he really made gore's songs shine with his arrangements and as you said "sound sculpting". i always thought Ultra was a good album, but with wilder's touches it could have been great.

i also agree with your statement about their survival instinct. they've pushed on through all the bullshit.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Erm, anything vegetarian at this banquet?

The Smiths

even though i think depeche are a fine band,and have a fair bit of history behind them and some top tunes to boot ,i think that comparing new order to them or any other band from that era is bonkers really. sure depeche,duran,even flock of bloody seagulls have had more sucsess stateside than new order,but lets face it new order plowed the furrow for this lot to follow and all of these bands u2 included would give their left nut to have the critical aclaim that new order have received over the years. oh and we havnt mentioned joy division yet have we??now there is a whole other ball game. when you look at the works of sumner/morris/hook over those two bands alone never mind side projects, all the others combined cant hold a candle to them. well thats just my opinion for what its worth.

Nick M wrote: If one can be bothered to have a look, it would seem that Depeche Mode have had more commercial success in the US compared to New Order but don't have the critical respect that Barney & Co. garner here in the UK. They tend to get compared (albeit most of the time in a lazy fashion) as 80's synth bands that are still hanging around in the present.

My wife is a Depeche fanatic and I am just jealous of how she gets great single box set reissues (6 of them! Imagine if this was applied to the Order's output) as well as a recent 3 disc remix set. And I have to say that if their new single PRECIOUS is anything to go by than she'll soon be listening to a more than decent LP.

There is no rivalry between the bands themselves and there is no real need for it between fans. In fact, I'm sure there is quite a shared interest from either side in the other.

Hear Hear!! Makes me cringe seeing people knocking DM,I'm a big NO fan,but I've got nearly as much in DM 12" vinyl.Going back to the original question,DM haven't got the same aclaim as NO in UK....or so I thought!! PRECIOUS has just gone in the new TOP 40 chart..at number 4!!

Same here, it's my other half Lorraine who has all the Depeche Mode (and Smiths) records....well, everything from 1986 onwards that is, she too was no real fan of their dodgier pre-Black Celebration era.

Chuckles wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote: Didn't Electronic back up DM at Dosgers Stadium?

yes, they did in 1990. I was there and will never forget it. i was probably more excited to see electronic than DM. they were both great. nitzer ebb weren't bad either.

Nitzer Ebb were fucking great - and still sound fucking great. I got into them just before Technique as New Order were making reference to Balearic Beats in almost every interview, so I bought Balearic Beats Vol.1, which was mostly shit apart from Join in the Chant by Nitzer Ebb. Which was still being played to death in Ibiza this summer.

The NME (when it was good)also referred to Nitzer Ebb as being like New Order in remix form.

If you like the electronic elements of New Order, I strongly recommend That Total Age, Belief, and Showtime, by Nitzer Ebb.

Oh dear, you're all wrong! DM were great before Vince left and godawful afterwards. Spritely electropop (with the emphasis on POP!) before, and on a slow slide towards rock cliche afterwards. What they created with those early singles was something all of their own (alright not quite their own, Soft Cell, Yello, YMO etc)- take Dreaming Of Me with its sparkling synths and weird harmony vocals. Look beyond the haircuts! They were smart enough to avoid becoming just another Cabaret Voltaire/Throbbing Gristle clone and to head for the charts. Bringing in the industrial sctick afterwards was an interesting, but ultimately pretty boring, move. Gahan's downfall was utterly stupid and tedious - we really need another rock and roll corpse, don't we? And maybe that's at the root of the popularity in the USA - they fitted the bill for what a proper rock band should be, with a tortured artist on lead vocs, drugs habits and a few half-assed, but easy to digest, lyrics about the big issues.

I think the 'By 'Eck, My Neck' is right that NO were ultra-cred from the start. Maybe DM's pop years were something to live down if you're bothered about such nonsense as hipster cred, but I doubt that made much difference to the typical punter. I think DM built a pretty big fanbase during the early years who stayed with them and got comfortable with all the changes. I don't really know who has a bigger fanbase in the UK now, but I'd guess DM.

i still don't understand why the order get lumped in with dm & the cure in america.

enjoy the silence was pleasant enough (& the video was directed by anton corbijn wasn't it?) but other than that not really seen anything in depish.

as for the cure, seen them twice. boring bunch of gits live.

Clearly there's no comparison, NO are the real thing, DM are still the lightweight teeny pop band they started as, regardless of how many times Gahan turns blue and stops breathing.

Having said that, I happily listen to DM occasionally, sometimes you want lightweight teeny pop.

What i want to know is how Depeche Mode become so big in the States? I think they're pretty good but I've never quite understood why they made it so big. Enjoy the Silence was good but it does owe a lot to New Order and the Pet Shop Boys. I guess New Order get more cred because they were more alternative, at least through the 80s, had more classic songs and a better band.

I'd be a fan of DM & The Cure, prefer NO though

I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

((((e))))

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

Jonathan wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

so could i. one of the worst songs ever.

"And give me support And in return She'll get my support"

fantastic rhyming.

Who are D Mode ?

Jonathan wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote:

Jonathan wrote: I think Dm lyrics are suitable for boy bands especially their early stuff. Its makes me deeply uncomfortable when people mention NO and DM in the same breath.

What about the lyrics to World in Motion?

You may have a point but i thought keith allen wrote it. I shouldnt said that some of the Dm lyrics are retarted boy band material. I cant say it for all their songs. here's an example: Somebody I want somebody to share Share the rest of my life Share my innermost thoughts Know my intimate details Someone who'll stand by my side And give me support And in return She'll get my support She will listen to me When I want to speak About the world we live in And life in general Though my views may be wrong They may even be perverted She'll hear me out And won't easily be converted To my way of thinking In fact she'll often disagree But at the end of it all She will understand me

I want somebody who cares For me passionately With every thought and With every breath Someone who'll help me see things In a different light All the things I detest I will almost like I don't want to be tied To anyone's strings I'm carefully trying to steer clear of Those things But when I'm asleep I want somebody Who will put their arms around me And kiss me tenderly Though things like this Make me sick In a case like this I'll get away with it

© 1984 Martin Lee Gore

I could puke with these lyrics.

And Barney writes great lyrics? "it beats arithmetic."

Kind of like saying "Tom Hanks is a bad actor, remember Joe vs The Volcano?"

Bands with catologues as vast as New Order's or Depeche Mode's are bound to have songs with amazing lyrics and some with horrible lyrics.