the forgotten song "Here to Stay"

AgentWood wrote: GIAUE and HTS are both fantastic songs (especially HTS--i think the chemicals had something to do with it), and they prove that new order are proficient at making both dance music and guitar-based songs. they are innovative.

perhaps the feeling that the band has lost the capability to innovate has to do with sentimentality, but give get ready and WFTSC a listen in ten years and i think you'll find they haven't lost that magical 'it' that so many bands lose after nearly 30 years together.

well said. Maybe their not as innovative as the past but compare to mindless stuff we have today, nobody come close to sounding so orginal and different. NO can not be hold in fault for setting the template that nobody has been able to come close to matching.

AgentWood wrote:

Anchor Girl wrote:

Jim Bob wrote: They won't play it because there's no guitar for poor little Phil...!

In my opinion, Here To Stay is the way foreward for N.O. Think about it:

• New Order have always been about dance music. Since the Technique days, Dance has evolved and changed, and the only real track that's been with the current musical pulse of Dance is HTS. Imagine, New order crossed with the Prodigy or something! This Rock bullshit they're stuck in (in my opinion because of Phil) is fine, but only is it has the dance aspects. So come on, NO, start innovating again!

There we go!

I definitely agree with you on this one! I wonder about their new album, though. There was a rumour they were going back to their 'roots'. Even if you think about some of the JD songs, for example, Digital, Isolation.....these tracks were already much more about sophisticated dance music rather than some kind of rock bullshit. Think Kraftwerk!

yes, JD were influenced by kraftwerk but they also recorded some pretty heavy songs.

what about shadowplay? one of the greatest guitar riffs in their back catalogue, for sure? novelty's guitar riff is pretty damn good, as well. and warsaw? that's about as 'anti-dance' as a song can get. same with failures and (to a lesser extent) dead souls. the list goes on....

yes. however, i also think it has to do with how one relates to the notion of "dance". isn't it, or isn't it? "dance" in JD music has a kind of abysmal quality....nearly transcendental.....Shadowplay is a good example of that....and plenty more.....

I always liked Here To Stay. I could never understand how the press bagged it, nor the lack of chart success.

Top track Here to Stay. Maybe my favorite after WFTSC from the '01-05 period.

MTO wrote: Yeah, I'm just speed reading this thread but GIAUE is a DOPE-ASS cut, period. You know, I don't know if this is true or not, but the US fans seem to really DIG New Order's dance side and the UK fans can really appreciate the rockier side of the group. Now of course there are exceptions, but, S**T, how can you say GIAUE is a bad song? The hook, bridge and chorus is INFECTIOUS!!!!

It really should be a single. 'Turn' is about as exciting as a bowel movement.

I think it's wrong to generalize that UK fans like the rockier side of them and US fans love the dance side or whatever. I like both sides of them, because they can make a dance track and they can make a rock track as well. I usually don't listen to rock because I hate the grungy guitars, the machismo in general and the ugly macho screaming voices. Even though I don't like the genre rock itself, I love New Order, Joy Division and Monaco. New Order doesn't have loud, grungy, messy guitars in it. When there's guitars, it's not screechingly loud. Bernard's voice isn't deliberately rough or tough and he doesn't scream every single word in his songs. I love his voice, too. Oh and by the way, I love the song "Here to Stay".

Here to stay for me is the best song since 1993 and I think that was a good song for a live act. They don’t need to play the synth drums parts because most of it are sequencers and Steve could handle it. Probably it has to do with the song royalties but I don’t know. Phil was already in the band when the song was made and I think that he’s not the HTS problem. I’ve seen the TOTP video and they have only lip-synched. But Hooky did a great job playing the mute electronic drums. But we can always start a petition for HTS live.

Al Jarvis wrote:

kino zon wrote: why is NO not performing this live?? i think most of the noolers would agree that this is the best track they have written since technique.

I wouldn't, it's alright but no Crystal or Regret. Too formulaic, New Order by numbers.

Hi Al; If I remember correctly (unlikely given the contents of my head) NME said exactly the same thing in their review (by the numbers)!

HTS is brill as is Guilt, as are the rockier and poppier numbers, thats what I like about NO; they do rock and dance and the cover of 'Retro' is a brilliant illustration of this to me.

If they can do Krafty live then they can do HTS; both tracks in the same vein and it'd be interesting to here HTS with more guitar.

It's not very likely though; I think HTS is one of their unloved children... wasn't there a rumour it was something left over from Technique? (Although I could be imagining this)

I'm pretty sure the HTS/Technique thing was that one of the unfinished songs they were working on around the time of Technique had very similar lyrics to what finally surfaced on HTS. We never did have a tune for that early work-in-progress number, only the lyrics. That would actually be a good question to ask Hooky at his next DJ gig!

MTO wrote: And one other thing, Kraftwerk is still innovating, age doesn't mean anything. They're all around 58. If New Order picked up a synth, I bet they'd be surprised at what kind of ideas would come forth.

((((e))))

MTO wrote: And one other thing, Kraftwerk is still innovating, age doesn't mean anything. They're all around 58.

Are they? Have they actually written anything new in the last few years? Unless I am losing the plot (not impossible by any means) all they do is roll out old stuff over and over again.

oldmonkey wrote:

MTO wrote: And one other thing, Kraftwerk is still innovating, age doesn't mean anything. They're all around 58.

Are they? Have they actually written anything new in the last few years? Unless I am losing the plot (not impossible by any means) all they do is roll out old stuff over and over again.

no. youve lost the plot.

It was probably produced by the Chems with all their own sequencers/synths, hence New Order would take an age programming it to play with their live set up, and the sounds would be different (from different synths). Granted, they could sample it all from the multitrack masters (as they have with Blue Monday recently), but it's probably just too much effort!

Andy

for all people rag on Phil, I think they forget he wasn't even in the band until after GR was finished. And I doubt they'd let Phil commandeer the direction of the band after spending 24 years doing quite well without him.

oldmonkey wrote: I'm pretty sure the HTS/Technique thing was that one of the unfinished songs they were working on around the time of Technique had very similar lyrics to what finally surfaced on HTS. We never did have a tune for that early work-in-progress number, only the lyrics. That would actually be a good question to ask Hooky at his next DJ gig!

i will surely ask him 2mrw when i c him here in la

I dont think kraftwerk new stuff is innovative. I still think their brillant and always will adore them but like NO they are past their peak.

oldmonkey wrote:

MTO wrote: And one other thing, Kraftwerk is still innovating, age doesn't mean anything. They're all around 58.

Are they? Have they actually written anything new in the last few years? Unless I am losing the plot (not impossible by any means) all they do is roll out old stuff over and over again.

They released a new album in 2003.But you'be forgiven for thinking it was another remix album of old stuff as it was called Tour De France Soundtracks and did indeed have new mixes of Tour De France.But it also had some brilliant new songs - Vitamin, Aero Dynamik,Elektro Kardiogramm,La Forme....

And there was also Expo 2000 in ,um, 2000

I like Hear To Stay I love Crystal

If you don't like them then you can fuck right off.

Not very intellectual just plain fucking honest.

:bag:

Jim Reilly wrote: I like Hear To Stay I love Crystal

If you don't like them then you can fuck right off.

Not very intellectual just plain fucking honest.

:bag:

Evening JIM :D

Not you Rocket. You're alright. You're here to stay. ;)

:bag: