What happened to the single Waiting for the Sirens´ Call?

Has it been on Top of the Pops? On the hitparade?

Vanished without a trace.

Johnny wrote: Vanished without a trace.

Totally predictable. A good album track but never a single. Lets be brutally honest, only die hards are ever gonna buy NO singles nowadays. And theres not enough of them. The Killers and Franz Ferdinand debut albums were in chart for about a year. New Order albums are lucky to last a month!

yeah but in twenty years time will killers or franz albums even chart at all?.they will probably be long gone into retirement.

Johnny wrote: yeah but in twenty years time will killers or franz albums even chart at all?.they will probably be long gone into retirement.

Too true Johnny and a good reply !But this all goes down to what i said to you in London ?????? But i guesse we all love them for just being a very underground group ! :\ohwell:

actually i bloody like new order not getting too high in charts. i no longer have to worry about them getting TOO BIG. its like the old days are back with new order !!!. these days new groups ( i.e.franz,kaiser chiefs ) are playing in a pub then 6 months and 2 catchy singles later are chart top 10 ers.so you get sick of fucking hearing the fore mentioned groups on the radio hourly.they get total fucking overplay,then 2 years later their fucking gone. in the 80's you used to be able to follow a band ( i.e.in my case bunnymen,u2,adam and the ants ) for 3 or 4 years round small venue's with it still being cool and exculsive, before your mum,terry wogan and century radio being into them HENCE NOT COOL. this was written by -- a rambling aging drunken twat

Johnny wrote: yeah but in twenty years time will killers or franz albums even chart at all?.they will probably be long gone into retirement.

I agree with your point. And also, most modern bands probably wouldn't be remembered in 20 or 25 years time; it'd be a miracle for most modern bands to even exist after 20 or 25 years anyways. I don't follow what the "charts" say, they're just a reflection of the masses and when the average music that's celebrated as "mainstream" are as mediocre as they are, I don't like to follow what they mediocre mainstream would say.

leather_girl wrote:

Johnny wrote: yeah but in twenty years time will killers or franz albums even chart at all?.they will probably be long gone into retirement.

I agree with your point. And also, most modern bands probably wouldn't be remembered in 20 or 25 years time; it'd be a miracle for most modern bands to even exist after 20 or 25 years anyways. I don't follow what the "charts" say, they're just a reflection of the masses and when the average music that's celebrated as "mainstream" are as mediocre as they are, I don't like to follow what they mediocre mainstream would say.

emmmmm, well put

ROCKET RECORDS:D

Chris Nash wrote: I agree with all of the above, but there's one worrying thing...

When bands' albums and singles end up in the 'Bargain Bin' or at a greatly reduced price as quickly as recent New Order releases have, it signals that the record company will drop them as a loss-maker pretty quickly.

The big question for me is when (not if) London/Warner drop New Order, will the band then 'retire gracefully' or will they do what we all want - start their own (well run) independant label and continue releasing excellent tracks that don't appeal to the mainstream 'R 'n' B' and Gareth Gates/Robbie Williams crowd?

Very good point and it does make you think ?

bansheeman wrote: actually i bloody like new order not getting too high in charts. i no longer have to worry about them getting TOO BIG. its like the old days are back with new order !!!. these days new groups ( i.e.franz,kaiser chiefs ) are playing in a pub then 6 months and 2 catchy singles later are chart top 10 ers.so you get sick of fucking hearing the fore mentioned groups on the radio hourly.they get total fucking overplay,then 2 years later their fucking gone. in the 80's you used to be able to follow a band ( i.e.in my case bunnymen,u2,adam and the ants ) for 3 or 4 years round small venue's with it still being cool and exculsive, before your mum,terry wogan and century radio being into them HENCE NOT COOL. this was written by -- a rambling aging drunken twat

Fair points and if NO just want moderate chart success these days then thats fine. But if theyre miffed at not racking up enough royalties then they cant complain, as they have failed to make the most of marketing strategies.

Chris Nash wrote: I agree with all of the above, but there's one worrying thing...

When bands' albums and singles end up in the 'Bargain Bin' or at a greatly reduced price as quickly as recent New Order releases have, it signals that the record company will drop them as a loss-maker pretty quickly.

The big question for me is when (not if) London/Warner drop New Order, will the band then 'retire gracefully' or will they do what we all want - start their own (well run) independant label and continue releasing excellent tracks that don't appeal to the mainstream 'R 'n' B' and Gareth Gates/Robbie Williams crowd?

Personally I think they will probably pack it in after the next album anyway. Hooky has got a successful career as a DJ, Bernard has a boat and everything he ever wished for, and Stephen and Gillian have each other and everything they ever wished for. Phil's still got another 20 years in the business if he wants it, and has something pretty unique on his CV now!

Chris Nash wrote: I agree with all of the above, but there's one worrying thing...

When bands' albums and singles end up in the 'Bargain Bin' or at a greatly reduced price as quickly as recent New Order releases have, it signals that the record company will drop them as a loss-maker pretty quickly.

The big question for me is when (not if) London/Warner drop New Order, will the band then 'retire gracefully' or will they do what we all want - start their own (well run) independant label and continue releasing excellent tracks that don't appeal to the mainstream 'R 'n' B' and Gareth Gates/Robbie Williams crowd?

I haven't seen WFTSC in the bargain bins yet. Obv all the back catalog is around a fiver in HMV, but so is everyone else's - such is the nature of major label marketing these days. As for singles, once the fanbase has bought them, who wants a New Order single? Again, the same applies to virtually all major label/big independant artists. I'd say that unless they want to go, leaving London/Warners isn't imminent. As for retiring altogether - no, there's a few albums of music left in them yet, definitely.

runwild 1 wrote: Has it been on Top of the Pops? On the hitparade?

It did get to no.21 in its 1st week of release - would have gone higher if they had released the cd version sooner!

These predictions are pretty pessimistic. I haven't seen any new order in the bargain bins, WFTSC album had a good enough chart showing. Only half as popular as their old peers and modern contemporaries, but so what? As long as their albums get in the top 20 and the record company keeps distribution rights of one of the most prized back catalogs in pop they won't be dropping them anytime soon.

Although Singles and International didn't even crack the top 50. But that's not too surprising because they aren't offering anything new to the consumer and weren't promoted in any way.

it hasn't even been officially released yet (will it ever) over here. no matter i have the cd single and the 3 7#ers anyway.

But all old back catolog albums from any artist are that price, it doesn't mean anything.

And 5pounds for an old cd? You guys are getting jacked.

Chris Nash wrote:

Landon Bradley wrote: These predictions are pretty pessimistic. I haven't seen any new order in the bargain bins, WFTSC album had a good enough chart showing. Only half as popular as their old peers and modern contemporaries, but so what? As long as their albums get in the top 20 and the record company keeps distribution rights of one of the most prized back catalogs in pop they won't be dropping them anytime soon.

Although Singles and International didn't even crack the top 50. But that's not too surprising because they aren't offering anything new to the consumer and weren't promoted in any way.

By 'bargain bins' I mean the complete JD/NO back catalogue for £4.99 each (except Retro & Heart & Soul) and WFTSC for £7.99.

That's pretty much a case of 'This ain't gonna sell, let's flog it off cheap asap'

Hooky actually said when they first signed to London that it would be a limited deal and they would (perhaps HE would) want to either sign to an independant or create their own label as soon as the deal was over.

I presumed that the plethora of 'Best Ofs' were a way of completing the 5 or 7 album deal with London and that once finished, they could go their own way.

I'd love to see a New Order release on their own label and would be quite happy to pay the couple of quid extra if necessary.

I'd also love it if they carried on for another 10 years, but somehow I doubt that will happen.

We can but hope

Actually yes, I have seen WFTSC at £7.99. But, again, most new releases from artists with a similar level of popularity are marketed at that price a couple of months after release. I think you're mixing up what is a general trend in music marketing with the specifics of what is happening to New Order's releases. With online retailers, supermarkets etc, few people will pay more than a tenner for a CD a few months after release. As for the the compelte JD/NO back catalog at £4.99 - same thing. That's the market price for albums >10 yrs old from 'major artists'. It's nothing to do with New Order per se. This trend has been driven by HMV's almost perpetual sale (a good thing!). I have picked up albums by the following for £4.99 in the past few months - Kate Bush, Scott Walker, Bowie (actually £3.99), Nick Drake, OMD, The Who etc etc.

I didn't know that Hooky had said that - but how long ago was it?

You make a good point about the plethora of best-ofs as contract-fodder.

WTFSC was in Music Zone for under £6, at least 3 months back. That's prety much a commercial disaster in my book.

Should have released Turn or the title track at the time of Jetstream, whilst there was still some interest. I don't buy this idea of them not being radio friendly, people want quality and are able to distinguish it without the need for an 'obvious' single. There would have been a lot more promotion and airplay, had either of them been released arounfd this summer's activity.

Have they even promoted WTFSC? I haven't noticed.

http://www10.cd-wow.com/detail_results.php?product_code=16401&affid=12335&affid=15030 £4.99 delivered free!

Hank Wiseass© wrote: WTFSC was in Music Zone for under £6, at least 3 months back. That's prety much a commercial disaster in my book.

Should have released Turn or the title track at the time of Jetstream, whilst there was still some interest. I don't buy this idea of them not being radio friendly, people want quality and are able to distinguish it without the need for an 'obvious' single. There would have been a lot more promotion and airplay, had either of them been released arounfd this summer's activity.

Have they even promoted WTFSC? I haven't noticed.

http://www10.cd-wow.com/detail_results.php?product_code=16401&affid=12335&affid=15030 £4.99 delivered free!

nail on head the hit. Turn or Hey Now should have been 2nd single to show Albums guitar music.

But what do you mean by 'radio-friendly'? Do you mean RADIO ONE friendly? Without being R&B/Hip-Hop-based or a nu-singer-songwriter (Blunt, Powter, Melua etc etc) it's not going to fit in to daytime R1. The few 'band' slots are clogged up with Coldplay/U2 etc etc - NO have no angle to market them with here. New Order are still more yer 'after drive-time' artist, as ever. Actually Jetstream was probably the best option, but didn't have a big enough hook. I applaud them for trying this direction, but they should have taken it further.

I suspect that chart-sales are influenced by a lot of niche/regional stations too, who wouldn't know New Order from a hole in the ground.

'Showing the album's guitar music' is not of interest to joe public. There are plenty of albums with guitar music, and plenty with a bit of guitar music and a bit of electronic music. A band of 40-somethings with no sowbiz credentials is pretty much unlikely to more than a fanbase act. Sure, they pick up NEW fans, but not enough to make a difference.

Landon Bradley wrote: Although Singles and International didn't even crack the top 50. But that's not too surprising because they aren't offering anything new to the consumer and weren't promoted in any way.

??? Where? - Singles went top ten in the UK AFAIK & was still in the top 60 after 4 weeks.

Can't remember the placings of International

Re: cheap WFTSC - Music Zone have it regularly on sale at only £4.97. El cheapo reapo or what?? FOPP records in Manchester are currently selling "Retro" at ONLY £20.00 - SO IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT IT YET, GET YOUR SKATES ON!!!!

Rocket Mick wrote: ROCKET RECORDS:D

Sorry pal, ELTON JOHN beat them to it about 30 years ago! :D

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Re: cheap WFTSC - Music Zone have it regularly on sale at only £4.97. El cheapo reapo or what?? FOPP records in Manchester are currently selling "Retro" at ONLY £20.00 - SO IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT IT YET, GET YOUR SKATES ON!!!!

Rocket Mick wrote: ROCKET RECORDS:D

Sorry pal, ELTON JOHN beat them to it about 30 years ago! :D

Saw Retro in HMV in Ashton-under-Lyne today for £24 (reduced from £35). As for the rest of the back catalogue priced in the £9-£13 bracket. This included JO back catalogue.

There is a demand out there but NO have been so bloody lazy in the past that whatever chance they had of becoming super nova a la U2 never materialised.

The one, and only, drawback of NO's lack of mass appeal these days is that when you mention them to somebody you invariably get the reply that they've heard Blue Monday and "the one that starts 'I feel so extraordinary'" Oh and, "that one where the 'schoolies ran away'!

WFTSC was moderately successful. It went top ten, spawned one top ten single (Krafty), one top 20 single (Jetstream) and one top 30 single (WFTSC). Pity Turn is the fourth release. I doubt it will 'turn' up in the Top 40.

Hopefully WFTSC and their imminent entry to the UK Hall of Fame will have pricked the nation's conscience and next year's release will do much better.

If only they'd followed up WIM much quicker!