58 replies · 1,192 views
61 votes · voting closed
I personally prefer Lonesome Tonight as a song, I think Bernard is way too out of tune on most of Thieves Like Us, and that they should have switch A with B side like they did for True Faith.
Maybe it's an issue when a band have solid b-sides.
What's your take on this?
Thieves Like Us 40% Lonesome Tonight 60% So I think that Lonesome Tonight is one of the my prefers songs about New Order.
Lonesome Tonight easily. Great slow number that (surprise) gets much better once the nicely morose lyrics drop away and that swoosh of synths takes over, punctuated by the infamous loogie. Classic!
I like the snooty-preppy air of TLU with those high-falootin' synths and prim n' propper drumsounds. The entire song reminds me of Bernard's TOTP denim jacket actually.
Lonesome is too uncomfortably sincere for NO.
Lonesome Tonight, still in my top 5 NO tracks after all this time. Remember getting Thieves when it came out, playing it, thinking hmmmm, then playing the B side and playing it again, and again, and again...
I remember something similar Marko - TLU is BLAND 'love is the air that supports the eagle'
- not something a 16year old can play to his mates as proof of NO's brilliance. But Lonesome tonight - that has everything, its still one of my (many) faves!
I remember then getting the Murder single - with Thieves instrumental, & thinking that way was far better - a properly 'marketed' NO would have released LT & Murder(probably together as a Double A side), and hidden TLU as a B side/album track.
The long beautiful intro to Thieves is still one of my favourite parts of any New Order song ever.But as soon as Barney starts singing i'm bored with it.
I prefer Lonesome Tonight.Everything about the track is perfect.
Lonesome Tonight. New Order at their finest. Bittersweet lyrics, Hooky's bass, gillian's synths, jangling guitar and big ass long ending. TLU too long, not exciting, some embarassing lyrics. Come on, Barney singing about love?
Thieves Like Us has simply THE best intro of ANY New Order single, full stop. It's just pure blissed out beauty.
But the instrumental version is better though (on the flip of Murder) as I too am not a fan of the singing or the lyrics.
As most people have said, naff lyrics on TLU, great tune with one of the best NO endings spoilt by bad lyrics and a key that barney struggles with.
LT is what got me hooked on NO, I liked BM & confusion bought TLU without hearing it thinking it would be in a similar style as BM or Confusion and thoght I must have been given the wrong record, flipped it over and fell in love with the band, hooky's bass, the over the top 80's synths, steve's drumming, barneys singing, the lyrics, the loogie, all BRILLIANT!!!.
Johnny wrote: The long beautiful intro to Thieves is still one of my favourite parts of any New Order song ever.But as soon as Barney starts singing i'm bored with it.
I prefer Lonesome Tonight.Everything about the track is perfect.
Spot on
i think thieves like us is one of NO's weakest songs. never liked it--you're spot on, spotnick, when you say barney's way out of tune. it's also rather boring. it's lonesome tonight for me!
I refuse to choose, it's like being shown two of yer best mates and being asked to pick which is to die :D
CuanaD wrote: I remember something similar Marko - TLU is BLAND 'love is the air that supports the eagle'
I remember then getting the Murder single - with Thieves instrumental, & thinking that way was far better - a properly 'marketed' NO would have released LT & Murder(probably together as a Double A side), and hidden TLU as a B side/album track.
Absolutely agree - Murder came out very soon after I think (?) There was a guy at college with me (who used to waterski with IC btw)and he played it to death, over and over and over...think he went and bought a second one in the end! Plus the artwork is better for Murder too..
Steve Campbell wrote: I refuse to choose, it's like being shown two of yer best mates and being asked to pick which is to die :D
best mates? more like worst enemies.
Am I the only one who enjoys the lyrics to TLU? The first verse perfectly describes an ice queen. I'm no pitch expert but I know singing, and I enjoy the vocal track too.
Jed Stephens wrote: Who's the mystery TLU fan, six votes, five posts from people admitting to it
Ok, you asked for it.
"Thieves Like Us" is absolute perfection. Hell, it brings some '70s funk into the musical palette of NO, it has a cinematic quality to it that "The Perfect Kiss" would later explore much further. For my money the intro riff that Hooky stole from Hot Chocolate or something to "TLU" is far less cliched than the more ordinary two-note twang that he uses for most of "LT". However, the other basslines in both songs are just amazing, not to mention Gillian's synth work; what she plays in both "TLU" and "LT" haunts me in my dreams. But I just love it when Steve adds the slightly harsh tones from the Emulator in "TLU". In the beginning where Gillian plays those Voyetra chords, Steve answers with the Emu and Hooky answers to that with his bass, it creates some TENSION in the proceedings, even though this isn't exactly "AOC" that we're talking about.
Some people here complain about lyrics to "TLU". Let me tell you this, I was never attracted to the lyrics of New Order in the first place; if Barney comes up with a non-cliched line every now and then I don't really care about it much. What has always mattered to me the most is the way he SINGS them; he has this ability to turn even the most obvious cliches into something magical through that technically flawed voice of his. Heck, most of the stuff that the Order usually plays is cliched, a few of your typical chords and there you go. But when those chords are played by these four people with their unique rhythmic sensibilities and playing styles, with their unmatchable band chemistry, then they're pretty much the best band on the planet.
To me Barney's vocals in "Thieves" are possibly the best that he has ever done in the studio. This is, for me, the peak era for his vocals, in 1983 it started developing into this one big high-pitched passionate weapon that I just love. And it would go away too damn soon also; compare the vocals in the 1985 live versions of "Subculture" to the 1987 ones. In '87 he had already begun to speak the "you realize you can't shaft without someone else" line instead of singing it real high like he used to do earlier. And I miss that voice. For me it is as essential a part of NO as whatever Hooky does. Not that I don't love some of the things he has sung since, but still..
In "Thieves" I think Barney shows utter care with the way he combines his vocals with those "banal" lyrics. He starts out a bit cold, just like JV said, creating this image of an ice queen. Then he lets go with that soulful singing, one of those critics at AMG wrote that "TLU" is "a kind of blue-eyed soul for a later age", and while I usually don't agree with those guys because they're even worse rock snobs than I am, I do agree with this comment. So, Barney rhymes hills with pills? West with best? Evil with eagle? I don't care one bit. In fact, I believe "Thieves" wouldn't even work with any other lyric; it's these lyrical naivetes combined with his passion when he goes to the choruses that make the whole thing work for me. When he goes from that eagle line into the coldly sung "it's called love, and it's so uncool, it's called love, and somehow it's become unmentionable" bit the music comes to this dramatic quiet passage, and then when he lets loose with his voice again it's just a magical moment for me. I think those whole two lines that I just wrote down there are another observational, clever lyrical bit, a bit of third person commentary along the lines of "The Village ("their love died three years ago...") that gives the lyrics their necessary postmodernistic edge. If that wasn't there, this song could have been sung by Otis Redding (actually I think Otis should've lived long enough to cover "BLT", but that's another story).
If anyone else than Barney sang "Thieves" I would very likely think of the whole song as banal. This way it's high above the cliches and ordinariness for me, pretty close to being the best thing NO did (but then there's always "TPK", "Procession", "Leave Me Alone", "TTON", "BLT", "Regret", "Crystal", etc, etc). Plus the dramatic way "Thieves" comes to a halt, just incredible. My favourite NO song finale along with the one in "TPK".
Oh, and this non-musician wants an impartial opinion from someone with medically proven pitch-perfect hearing in order to believe that "TLU" is sung out of key. 
But then when we start comparing the lyrics changes at gigs in the two songs, I guess it's pretty much a draw for me:
"You reached out in your sleep, and you felt my big fat cock." (- Polytechnic 1985)
"I'll gave you a thousand reasons Why I'm your girl I've heard you're a hundred assholes Now with this song"
"It's called love...we masturbate It's called love...we masturbate It's called love and we masturbate"
(- I Beam 1983)
Big LT fan here, though TLU has been the track that's I've come to appreciate more over the years than any other.
After buying the 12" single, I accidentally played LT first..........and then kept replaying it for about an hour. When I finally made it to the proper A-side, I was put off by the lyrics to be honest. Got to thinking a few years later that sometimes, the lyrics aren't the best thing about any particular song, I don't always wanna hear something "meaningful" and "relevant" to the modern world. This was helped by Bernard saying things like "I don't have a message for the world" in interviews.
Lonesome Tonight but only just. As someone mentioned the London Poly version 06/12/1985 is class.
Thieves was better on vinyl than live IMO, however it's nice to hear the edit on Singles though.
Fogface wrote:
Jed Stephens wrote: Who's the mystery TLU fan, six votes, five posts from people admitting to it
Ok, you asked for it.
Oh, and this non-musician wants an impartial opinion from someone with medically proven pitch-perfect hearing in order to believe that "TLU" is sung out of key.
I'll take that as a bit of an ear bashing (should that be eye bashing as i read it).
I didn't say he was out of key, I said he struggles with that key, he quite clearly strains a few times, as he does on several early songs until he learnt his range properly, that said I wouldn't like a perfect performace anyway, I like it rough and ready, (bit like my women), and I'm definately not saying I could do better, I strain like fuck singing TLU, which again lessens my enjoyment of it.
Thieves Like Us is a nice tune. The other song has too many Country influences for my taste.
Wow...I can't believe the result of this. As people have said already, the intro of TLU is one of the best parts of any NO song full-stop, and overall I love it, even if some of the vocals make me cringe a little...but....
I really think LT is one of the most overrated songs in the NO back catalogue , I can't believe how many people love it so much! Okay the last instrumental part I like, but I just find it such a forgettable song.
So, TLU by a mile.
I love TLU I REALLY love LT I find myself listening to it over and over, wishing it would never end...
frankly, the only version of TLU i like is evaluna's on community. they did wonders with the song.
i do have to admit that the original does have a good intro.
The bit where the synths kick in on Thieves is an ecstatic high for me, I can remember the first time I heard it back in 84 via Uncly John blaring it upstairs, it was also the first new order record I ever enquired about as John came home with the 12" and the cover sparked my interest.
Great song which has aged a bit, it's not in my Top 10 but it's a great song. I love Lonesome Tonight as well, but Thieves gets my vote.
I would argue Thieves Like Us as a single (including Lonesome Tonight) is the debut of Barney as a newly confident singer. Up until that point, there was not yet a New Order single that played fair distribution with the instruments and the voice (Temptation, yes, but Barney isn't quite soulful in his performance yet). Thieves Like Us has the grand opening, bass lines in lovers' dialogue, and a singer front and center. The only bum notes I hear occur during parts of the end of each chorus. I think a lot of people on this board have no sense of when Barney is in or out of key. They're just guessing when it seems to suit their opinion about a particular song. Original Ceremony: "Fore v e
r" (displaced letters are meant to suggest total loss of pitch)
Temptation 7": Up Down Turn Around bit is totally dodgy pitch wise. That's straining for you.
So, I've made my case for TLU. In my top 10, and would be in my top 5 had the Perfect Kiss never been born.
Steve Lea wrote:
CuanaD wrote: I remember something similar Marko - TLU is BLAND 'love is the air that supports the eagle'
I remember then getting the Murder single - with Thieves instrumental, & thinking that way was far better - a properly 'marketed' NO would have released LT & Murder(probably together as a Double A side), and hidden TLU as a B side/album track.
Absolutely agree - Murder came out very soon after I think (?) There was a guy at college with me (who used to waterski with IC btw)and he played it to death, over and over and over...think he went and bought a second one in the end! Plus the artwork is better for Murder too..
Gotta agree totally. The TLU vocal has to be one of the worst NO songs. The TLU instrumental on Murder was so much better to listen to. I played the hell out of the B-side LT and barely touched the A-side TLU until Murder was released which I then proceeded to wear the grooves out on.
Lonesome Tonight is a vastly superior song. I personally find TLU to be one of their absolute worst songs, and LT one of their finest.
I went for TLU on the strength of the intro, and the fact that basically its a weird song, Bernard is off key but there is also a nice rasp on his voice... but now i'm thinking about my favourite grunting bits in LT. mmm grunting. luckily for me (and all of us) in real life I don't have to choose!
I've lived my life in the valleys I've lived my life on the hills I've lived my life on alcohol I've lived my life on pills
But it's called love
the two songs are so different!two different moods ,of course,and each side is characteristic of N.O musical style. We've got the "day side" and the"night side" as always. But,wooowww! the Lonesome tonight final bass line is a masterpiece!!!
TLU wins my vote. The song is awesome with the intro being pure joy to my ears! 
BUT...
LT is also a great song that could have been a A track too.
Thanks for the excuse to give both a good listen! TLU wins out for accessibility (i.e. play for your unenlightened mates) but for that "crank the volume and remind yourself again how great NO are" feeling it's got to be LT.
McCavity wrote: Thanks for the excuse to give both a good listen! TLU wins out for accessibility (i.e. play for your unenlightened mates) but for that "crank the volume and remind yourself again how great NO are" feeling it's got to be LT.
My sentiments exactly, I've given both tracks a bit of a bashing, I've probably been a little harsh on TLU, t is a cracking song, but for me LT beats it on all levels, it's perfect NO.
i chose TLU but there really isnt much init.
wish NO would go back to producing Bsides for their singles rather than giving us remixes - lazy b@stards :)
