NOOL Input Required - Sumner Retrospective — Forum Archive

23 Apr 2006, 18:02

Hi Kids,

In addition to fixating on New Order and Factory Records for many years now, I've also had the pleasure of running a record label here in Brisbane, Australia called Trans:Com, and this year we're doing a series of retrospective events; one of which will on Bernard Sumner on May 13. We're paying respect to our elders... :shades:

Now I have my own views on this, but I wanted to get as many of your thoughts as well on the following question:

Which Joy Division, New Order, and Electronic tracks to do you feel Bernard had the most say in / influence / input by way of music and songwriting.

Of course he obviously wrote almost all of New Order's lyrics, but I'm looking at things from an overall 'this is a Sumner track' viewpoint.

Over to you.

Those of you based in Brisbane should check out http://www.trans.com.au/silhouetteseries/ and make yourselves known to me via email at dennis@trans.com.au. I'd love to meet you guys in person.

We're also putting together a 2hr online radio segment which will air on http://www.pulseradio.net over the coming week or two. Will advise NOOL when its available - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Best regards Dennis Remmer

23 Apr 2006, 20:13

Temptation has 'apparently' become known as Barney's Song

Most of Republic is 'apparently' his doing

I say 'apparently' because none of us can every really know. Good luck though.

23 Apr 2006, 21:26

Hi Dennis

Interesting question, this. Pure guesswork, but I would assume that as far as JD went, a track like Interzone would be more a Barney track, if only by virtue of the guitar being the most prominent part of the song, and 'makes' the track, with the bassline supporting the chords (maybe Transmission as an example of this as well). This would be as opposed to tracks like SLC or LWTUA, which are much more Hooky-led tracks.

For NO, I'd say the first two albums were collaborative between Barn, Hooky and Steve (less so with Gillian by my guess, and flame on if you wish). To my ears, Love Vig is the 'Barniest' of LowLife, and with Angel Dust and BLT from Brotherhood. I would imagine Technique was more collaborative musically as a 4-piece, and, unfortunately, Republic is virtually an Electronic album to these ears.

GR would be quite Barney-heavy too I imagine, as Crystal was almost entirely Barney's before it was presented to NO (I read this somewhere, as I think Corvin Dalek's 'Crystal' was based not on the NO track, but a track Barn had created pre-GR sessions)

Is this any use? Probably not. Use whatever you find helpful/useful. Cheers CTB :bear:

23 Apr 2006, 21:47

I tend to think of Everything's Gone Green as having a heavy Bernard influence even though it has a notable Hooky bassline; the stories of building that sequencer himself etc.

Your Silent Face is also known as "Barney doing his Kraftwerk tribute" or something like that.

Generally it's been assumed that the likes of TPK and BLT were based on Steve's ideas though.

23 Apr 2006, 22:00

I would say Temptation certainly. I know Atmosphere is his favourite JD track and WFTSC he really loves, but that doesn't mean that he had more to do with them than the others, he just likes them more. YSF would also be one of his, its mainly melodica, keyboard and synth which were his big 3 things at the time.

I'd love to go to this and say Hi so I'll email you. I picked up they flyer on this from Rocking Horse today.

24 Apr 2006, 09:03

For me, Joy Division credits are harder to pinpoint, because Bernard's style changed the most over time, but here's a set of guesses for both bands:

Bernard led tracks in JD on the two studio albums:

Disorder (probably equal between B and Hooky) New Dawn Fades Shadowplay Wilderness Interzone Isolation Passover Colony The Eternal Decades

And on some of the best NO tracks:

Ceremony (probably equal between B and Hooky) Procession Temptation Love Vigilantes Face Up As It Is When It Was Love Less All the Way Run Vanishing Point Regret (?)

I can't be bothered thinking of more. My keyboard is also typing quite slowly lately on this forum.

24 Apr 2006, 12:16

Wasim wrote: Temptation has 'apparently' become known as Barney's Song

Has it? Can't say I've ever heard this before, bar one facetious comment at Finsbury four years ago, but that was just Barney being sarcastic, surely? The lyrics aside, the most emotive parts of this track belong to Hooky, especially the closing basslines, I'd have said?

24 Apr 2006, 13:10

I pretty much agree with most of what JV listed in terms of New Order/Joy Division tracks although I’d definitely add Crystal for the reasons CTB stated. Here are some Electronic numbers I’d include:

Free Will 12" Some Distant Memory Second Nature Until The End Of Time Twisted Tenderness

Johnny Marr admitted in one of his website Q&As that Free Will was pretty much "Barney's baby" and is a good example of a classic Barney composition. Some Distant Memory strikes me as one of his as well with that familiar brand of melancholy running throughout it.

UTEOT and Second Nature come from the same "Barney School Of Pop" as Jetstream I would say. A million miles away from stuff like Ceremony or Transmission but Barney's always had a soft spot for dumb pop music if you ask me. I can't see Hooky or Steve coming up with the likes of Jetstream or Liar etc. Funnily enough those ‘dumb pop songs’ are the ones which generally split the fan base the most with Jetstream ruffling a fair few feathers around here!

Finally, I'd say Twisted Tenderness is about the only track off Electronic's third album which sounds like it could've directly come from a New Order album; definitely one of his. If you got Hooky to replicate Johnny’s middle-eight guitar melody on his bass it practically is a bona fide New Order track.

24 Apr 2006, 13:10

I think the guitar is just as emotive as the bass on Temptation.

25 Apr 2006, 12:06

Dennis:

I wouldn't neglect Sumner's work for other artists. Marcel King's "Reach for Love" and Section 25's "Looking from a Hilltop" are among Barney's best productions.

27 Apr 2006, 05:15

He also lent vocals to Sub Sub's "This time I'm not wrong" and an 808 State track called "Spanish Heart" I think. Although I'm not sure whether he wrote the lyrics or was involved with the arrangement of the music. Anyone know?

27 Apr 2006, 05:21

Have a look at Ally's thread as well;

http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=29219

...for more numbers to drop into Sumner night!

27 Apr 2006, 05:30

crystal is defo a barney song. he gave it away and put his vocals on it before it became a new order song.