Turn Video
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For a band that has created some truly inspiring music that would lend itself to groundbreaking and memorable videos, for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to work with Shamberg unless it's pure laziness.
His vidoes are at best uninteresting and at worst downright awful. The latest (third) video for "Turn" just emphasizes that. While it is possible to put images bearing little or no relation to the music together and create something unique he certainly doesn't seem to have any skill for doing it. Every one of his videos has the sophistication of a freshman art school project.
And can we please stop the formula of New Order videos focusing on the antics of a solitary person or a couple of people? It's like the singles campaign repeating the same artwork on each sleeve with just a color variation.
£50 Note wrote: For a band that has created some truly inspiring music that would lend itself to groundbreaking and memorable videos, for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to work with Shamberg unless it's pure laziness.
His vidoes are at best uninteresting and at worst downright awful. The latest (third) video for "Turn" just emphasizes that. While it is possible to put images bearing little or no relation to the music together and create something unique he certainly doesn't seem to have any skill for doing it. Every one of his videos has the sophistication of a freshman art school project.
And can we please stop the formula of New Order videos focusing on the antics of a solitary person or a couple of people? It's like the singles campaign repeating the same artwork on each sleeve with just a color variation.
what are your creative credentials ? kentucky redneck ?
jude law wrote: what are your creative credentials ? kentucky redneck ?
Well, for starters, he uses complete sentences.
MrDisco99 wrote:
jude law wrote: what are your creative credentials ? kentucky redneck ?
Well, for starters, he uses complete sentences.
And your point ?
* Anybody living south of the mason dixon line subtract 25 IQ points
jude law wrote: what are your creative credentials ? kentucky redneck ?
Yes, I'm an ignorant redneck with neither education nor taste. *rolls eyes*
jude law wrote: Anybody living south of the mason dixon line subtract 25 IQ points
Anybody arguing on the internet, subtract ALL IQ points. Sorry Jude, guess that means you.
Kentucky boy ... I would just be seriously interested in your creative credentials. What films or videos have you directed?
£50 Note wrote: For a band that has created some truly inspiring music that would lend itself to groundbreaking and memorable videos, for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to work with Shamberg unless it's pure laziness.
His vidoes are at best uninteresting and at worst downright awful. The latest (third) video for "Turn" just emphasizes that. While it is possible to put images bearing little or no relation to the music together and create something unique he certainly doesn't seem to have any skill for doing it. Every one of his videos has the sophistication of a freshman art school project.
And can we please stop the formula of New Order videos focusing on the antics of a solitary person or a couple of people? It's like the singles campaign repeating the same artwork on each sleeve with just a color variation.
Well, the thing to remember about this latest batch from Shamberg is they were pretty much made with no money... which makes some of them pretty good for what they are. I actually really like the Temptation video, even though the others are kinda hit or miss.
You're right, though; while the low-budget thing was a neat idea for one or two videos, it's not really worthy of making into a formula.
EDIT: oops!
jude law wrote: Kentucky boy ... I would just be seriously interested in your creative credentials. What films or videos have you directed?
I have a BA in Fine Art from the University of Kentucky. While still a student I had three of my short films shown in New York, Los Angeles, and Koln, Germany.
My focus is digital artwork and I have two upcoming exhibitions in Denver and the San Francisco bay area. My work sells continually.
I'm a musician who's been in Billboard, Spin, and The Advocate while in two different bands. I am co-founder of San Francisco-based record label Kuma-Chan.
I don't have any interest in being a director, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinon about someone else's work. It doesn't take a chef to know that a dish made out of broccoli, peaches, and fish oil is going to taste like shit.
Credentials: I'm verrrry impressed !!!!
Well, I don't know.
You are critical of the entire video output of the band. Directors like Jonathan Demme, Robert Longo, William Wegman, Robert Frank, to name a few (don't worry if you don't know some of the names, just google them).
Gee, I guess they are all a pretty talentless bunch.
I don't have the connections, but maybe someone in the forum can hook you up with the band, and you can produce all the forthcoming videos. I hope for the sake of New Order, that can happen !
Spotnick wrote: For those unable to play it:
I kinda like it, though it doesn't have a very broad appeal.
I hope those weren't stem cell embryos he was working with. 
jude law wrote:
MrDisco99 wrote:
jude law wrote: what are your creative credentials ? kentucky redneck ?
Well, for starters, he uses complete sentences.
And your point ?
* Anybody living south of the mason dixon line subtract 25 IQ points
Anybody making broad generalizations about every single person living in a large geographic area, subtract 50 points.
jude law wrote: You are critical of the entire video output of the band.
No, I'm not. Both Longo and Demme are heroes of mine. I named Shamberg specifically and talked about his videos. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee-jerk hissy fit.
£50 Note wrote:
jude law wrote: You are critical of the entire video output of the band.
No, I'm not. Both Longo and Demme are heroes of mine. I named Shamberg specifically and talked about his videos. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee-jerk hissy fit.
Correct me if I am wrong, but, Mr. Shamberg has "directed" one video (Ceremony 2005). He is the "producer" of most of the videos released by the band. I'm not from the south, so I'm confused.
It doesn't take studies to know when a video is good or not.
For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
Perfect band video for me is something like what has been done with all side-projects..
Although Crystal and Here To Stay had a point... most videos don't feature the band, and putting some live footage like in True Faith wouldn't kill anybody.
£50 Note wrote:
jude law wrote: You are critical of the entire video output of the band.
No, I'm not. Both Longo and Demme are heroes of mine. I named Shamberg specifically and talked about his videos. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee-jerk hissy fit.
Jeb, Michael Shamberg never directed a video.. he produced them...
If you read the website, he's behind even The Perfect Kiss and others...
jude law wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
jude law wrote: You are critical of the entire video output of the band.
No, I'm not. Both Longo and Demme are heroes of mine. I named Shamberg specifically and talked about his videos. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee-jerk hissy fit.
Correct me if I am wrong, but, Mr. Shamberg has "directed" one video (Ceremony 2005). He is the "producer" of most of the videos released by the band. I'm not from the south, so I'm confused.
He didn't direct Ceremony, that's the chinese director who did the movie "Love Will Tear Us Apart" that directed it.
Spotnick wrote:
jude law wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
jude law wrote: You are critical of the entire video output of the band.
No, I'm not. Both Longo and Demme are heroes of mine. I named Shamberg specifically and talked about his videos. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee-jerk hissy fit.
Correct me if I am wrong, but, Mr. Shamberg has "directed" one video (Ceremony 2005). He is the "producer" of most of the videos released by the band. I'm not from the south, so I'm confused.
He didn't direct Ceremony, that's the chinese director who did the movie "Love Will Tear Us Apart" that directed it.
You're right, my mistake. I get them confused because they were released at the same time. Temptation is directed by Michael Shamberg. But, I do believe he is not the director of any of the Turn videos. I know for sure that one was directed by the French director, Leos Carax.
Spotnick wrote: It doesn't take studies to know when a video is good or not.
For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
Perfect band video for me is something like what has been done with all side-projects..
Although Crystal and Here To Stay had a point... most videos don't feature the band, and putting some live footage like in True Faith wouldn't kill anybody.
I think a video without the band can be good, if it either somehow captures the essence of the song, or tells a story which is consistent with the song. Besides, I get the feeling NO don't like to appear in their videos.
jude law wrote:
You're right, my mistake. I get them confused because they were released at the same time. Temptation is directed by Michael Shamberg. But, I do believe he is not the director of any of the Turn videos. I know for sure that one was directed by the French director, Leos Carax.
I doubt it since he's dead. ;)
Leos Carax did the video of Crystal with his dog and cat.
As for Turn, I could always ask him more details when he'll email me his comments on the Community 2 video competition.
Shellshocker wrote:
Spotnick wrote: It doesn't take studies to know when a video is good or not.
For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
Perfect band video for me is something like what has been done with all side-projects..
Although Crystal and Here To Stay had a point... most videos don't feature the band, and putting some live footage like in True Faith wouldn't kill anybody.
I think a video without the band can be good, if it either somehow captures the essence of the song, or tells a story which is consistent with the song. Besides, I get the feeling NO don't like to appear in their videos.
That's the reason we've heard for years.. but explain to me why they were in all side-project videos (even Sub-Sub!) and release live DVDs...?
Someday somebody should ask this question...
Spotnick wrote:
jude law wrote:
You're right, my mistake. I get them confused because they were released at the same time. Temptation is directed by Michael Shamberg. But, I do believe he is not the director of any of the Turn videos. I know for sure that one was directed by the French director, Leos Carax.
I doubt it since he's dead. ;)
Leos Carax did the video of Crystal with his dog and cat.
As for Turn, I could always ask him more details when he'll email me his comments on the Community 2 video competition.
Right once again. Crystal. Who's dead ?
jude law wrote:
Right once again. Crystal. Who's dead ?
My mistake, he's not dead... I need to read properly next time.
From Kinoteca:
Through Carax's then, now sadly late, cameraman, Jean-Yves Escoffier (“Gumma”), I emailed Leos. I arranged to have a cassette of the music sent to him, and I waited. Not too long after he wrote and directed me to a web site. Here I found a home-made video Leos had constructed starring his dog and his cat. It was amusing as well as making fun of the video format. Leos wrote that “the video will cost you nothing, but my fee will be large.”
Spotnick wrote: For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
I think Patti would disagree with you...
Spotnick wrote:
Shellshocker wrote:
Spotnick wrote: It doesn't take studies to know when a video is good or not.
For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
Perfect band video for me is something like what has been done with all side-projects..
Although Crystal and Here To Stay had a point... most videos don't feature the band, and putting some live footage like in True Faith wouldn't kill anybody.
I think a video without the band can be good, if it either somehow captures the essence of the song, or tells a story which is consistent with the song. Besides, I get the feeling NO don't like to appear in their videos.
That's the reason we've heard for years.. but explain to me why they were in all side-project videos (even Sub-Sub!) and release live DVDs...?
Someday somebody should ask this question...
I have no answer for that.
Spotnick wrote:
Shellshocker wrote:
Spotnick wrote: It doesn't take studies to know when a video is good or not.
For me, a video not featuring the band at all is never a good video.
Perfect band video for me is something like what has been done with all side-projects..
Although Crystal and Here To Stay had a point... most videos don't feature the band, and putting some live footage like in True Faith wouldn't kill anybody.
I think a video without the band can be good, if it either somehow captures the essence of the song, or tells a story which is consistent with the song. Besides, I get the feeling NO don't like to appear in their videos.
That's the reason we've heard for years.. but explain to me why they were in all side-project videos (even Sub-Sub!) and release live DVDs...?
Someday somebody should ask this question...
Good question, Could it be to do with the record company or management insisting that they do? I can see how from a record company point of view, it would make sense that the publicity of the side project bands, shows people that it's not just any band with a new single; But musicians that are already well known and popular, as much as possible,including videos.
I had a long reply written and it got eaten.
Spotnick wrote: Michael Shamberg never directed a video.. he produced them...
If you read the website, he's behind even The Perfect Kiss and others...
That's my mistake for not checking the credits before stating my opinion, but I think my original statement still stands: as producer he's ultimately responsible for the end product, and quite a few of the videos with his name on them are sub-par.
For every "The Perfect Kiss", "Bizarre Love Triangle", "True Faith", "Touched By the Hand of God", "Blue Monday '88" and "World", there is a "Fine Time", "Run", "1963", "Ceremony", "Temptation", and "Turn". Nevermind that fact that at least four of his videos have the same general outline.
I don't think a 50/50 track record speaks well for him.
As for the argument that the band didn't want to be involved, well, they never had a whole lot of input (if any) for Saville's sleeves, and those are now legendary. Also, having a big budget doesn't make a bad concept any better, it just makes it pretty.
Forgive me if this comes across as sounding harsh. I'm an opinionated person and my frustration doesn't stem from any sort of personal hatred of Shamberg, it stems from wanting New Order to do better. I don't care for his aesthetic and three uninteresting, no-budget videos for a thwarted single seems so completely pointless to me when one smart, interesting video could potentially generate momentum and air-time.
You have to admit that New Order are not mainstream with any of their videos, that's for sure.
But go ahead on his website http://www.kinoteca.com check at the bottom right, you'll see the link to stories of "behind the scenes" for some videos, it's very interesting.
Spotnick wrote:
jude law wrote:
Right once again. Crystal. Who's dead ?
My mistake, he's not dead... I need to read properly next time.
From Kinoteca:
Through Carax's then, now sadly late, cameraman, Jean-Yves Escoffier (“Gumma”), I emailed Leos. I arranged to have a cassette of the music sent to him, and I waited. Not too long after he wrote and directed me to a web site. Here I found a home-made video Leos had constructed starring his dog and his cat. It was amusing as well as making fun of the video format. Leos wrote that “the video will cost you nothing, but my fee will be large.”
Doesn't that quote imply that the cameraman Escoffier is dead, not Carax?
