JD set for the Order?

I say, let them get on with it if they want to do it. Its nice to see them still playing after what an eight year break up to last year.

If they want to play JD songs, fucking let them. I'm going to enjoy the day anyway, no matter what they play.

John, you can go on about this all you like but the fact is that Bernard, Peter and Stephen along with Ian Curtis were Joy Division .. Not you .. So nobody can tell them not to play their own songs if thats what they want to do ... They wrote the songs ... They were there from the beginning .. It bewilders me that people are giving them shit for wanting to play their own songs ... They may sound a little different now but it has been over 20 years ... If you don't want to see them, then don't, but I think its weird how you are giving New Order shit for playing their own songs ...

i say go for it, why not. it has taken them a while to even consider them playing some JD songs...now they want to do a set, good for them

Originally posted by John Sweeney > Originally posted by chris p> Quite how people are getting their knickers in a twist over a set that's yet to be performed is so fucking hilarious.I mean,who really gives a shit?

oh damn,I forgot. I'm part of a New order message board,dominated by New order fans....if only there was a decent Joy Division forum.

you make it sound like they're two different bands. i'm starting to think that people think that joy division was ian curtis' band, not peter, bernard, stephen and ian's band. i mean, it's practically the same people and they have every right to do whatever they want with their songs. ian was not joy division, joy division was a joint effort and don't forget that.

Originally posted by Brendan Sun John, you can go on about this all you like but the fact is that Bernard, Peter and Stephen along with Ian Curtis were Joy Division .. Not you .. So nobody can tell them not to play their own songs if thats what they want to do ... They wrote the songs ... They were there from the beginning .. It bewilders me that people are giving them shit for wanting to play their own songs ... They may sound a little different now but it has been over 20 years ... If you don't want to see them, then don't, but I think its weird how you are giving New Order shit for playing their own songs ...

I agree with you here Brendan - talk about not being able to please everybody! Also John, don't you think you're being a little hypoctitical yourself by on one hand telling NO not to do JD songs, but classic NO ones instead - which category does this leave 'Ceremony' and 'In a lonely place' in? And did you honestly think that when you posted this on a NO forum you wouldn't have had this reaction? We are all here here coz we LIKE NO, not to criticise them for the "disgrace" of playing and singing their own songs. So fucking what if they're fat and middle aged - it happens to everyone. They're not under any obligation to use advanced cryogenic technology just to keep the likes of you happy, pal. That's my opinion anyway. Md

Originally posted by John Sweeney Disgrace,absolute fucking disgrace!Go on you lot,tell me that they wrote the tunes,therefore they have the right to play'em(which they do),but talk about dragging a groups legacy through a puddle of shit.These blokes are no longer the lean(slim),mean,killing machines they were back in 79/80,who did'nt have nothing to lose (especially record sales...."Get Ready" anyone?)Oh and Curtis,who could forget Ian Curtis.I can picture the scene...a fat,middle-aged Bernard Sumner with his weak as shit voice atempting to pull off heart-felt lyrics with true conviction....give me a break.These songs were performed in dark,seedy,ill-equipped clubs,not mass fuck-off fields covered in sunlight,with 50,000 people in there t-shirts & shorts singing along."who gives a shit what you think!" did I ask for anyone to give a shit what i think? no!this is just a rant by a Joy Divion devotee (not New Order)Hypocrisy,pure hypocrisy! they do this,then they are no different than the likes of phil collins or sting.I've never had the intention to go see New order....this joke will keep me away for good.Now!!!!, you fat middle-aged bastards,quit with the thoughts of attempting to resurrect your past,dust yourselfs down,get out there and perform some of your supposed classics for the posse's of New Order Fans!I am a cunt,i've been drinking too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

john.... vote with your feet.. if you dont like it dont fucking go!!! its that simple

my god, can anyone imagine if between their always-selected tracks from get ready, they suddenly launched into something must break or i remember nothing??? i would shit myself with happiness

They are NewOrder no longer Joy Division, performing a set at Finsbury with a higher weighting of JD songs will alienate more 'punters' than please die hard fans... its a festival remember!! I'd imagine there would be a lot of disgruntled punters if they ditched a vast array of popular NO songs in favour of some dusty classics from the 70's!!

Love to hear some forgotton JD classics myself but NOT at the expense of hearing NewOrder tracks....

Its an amazing idea to play a full Joy Division set. I was so made up when I found out they were going to play J.D. songs. There are some gobshites moaning about it but what they should realise is that New Order ARE Joy Division so what the fuck is wrong with playing songs from this era when this is when they made most of their finest rock songs. I hope they do play a full J.D. set but if they dont then they should definitly fit some of them monsterous Joy Division songs into the set. New Joy Division Order, LETS FUCKING ROCK!!!!! ps Barneys singing is in top form, better than ever!

When you're a young novice like me anything's a bonus! So long as they do Transmission I'll be a happy girly :)

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis Am I the only one who thinks this is a she-ite idea?

I mean, they're losing it live as it is - how would this one work? Thin ties and grey trousers for the first set, quick costume change at half-time for Barney to get into dayglo and Hooky to don some leather? Oh, puh-leez

Joy Division Set for New Order?

I totally agree with Mr Jarvis. They were once the band who made the feel and experience of 'The Gig' fun. They were either simply awesome or just a total mess. But this is why they were special. As at the time of the last proper UK tour details going to press someone in the forum got slaughtered for questioning the the severe pricing of the respective tickets. Well, no, the three Brixtion gigs didn't in my opinion represent value for money...the same sterile set, night after night, the highlight of which was AB spinning EGG + a wasted Hooky belting out AOC/Dreams Never End (why don't they play these 3 anymore????). They've neglected too many great songs from THIER past (see The Perfect Set thread)for far too long now. Time for a change? I wouldn't hold your breath.

can anyone actually imagine what it sound like if barney launched in to "atrocity exhibition"? :O saying it would be shit would be an understatement! maybe they should bring in keith allen like they did at reading 98 to do the vocals for the j/d set ;) hehe

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis Am I the only one who thinks this is a she-ite idea?

I mean, they're losing it live as it is - how would this one work? Thin ties and grey trousers for the first set, quick costume change at half-time for Barney to get into dayglo and Hooky to don some leather? Oh, puh-leez

Joy Division Set for New Order?

HERE! HERE!

22 YEARS I BEEN CURSING THE FUCKERS

HERE! HERE! MR JARVO

ITS ALL ABOUT THE ROAYLTIES, MAN!

hooky might be better able than barney to pull off vocals on jd songs. he has more rage in his voice, and he sang the backup vocals anyway.

Originally posted by false head hooky might be better able than barney to pull off vocals on jd songs. he has more rage in his voice, and he sang the backup vocals anyway.

yes go hooky he is a much beeter singer than barny anyway hello MOVEMENT

you know, i wonder how much of this is a split due to some people on this board being old enough to have actually gotten to *see* JD live back in the day, whereas some of us are too young to have had such a privilege.

i've been listening to Les Bains Douches a lot lately, and it's absolutely BRILLIANT. it's got so much POWER to it...and to me, hearing even a live recording of these songs is so much more powerful than hearing the proper studio recordings. (which is of course not to say that the studio recordings didn't have power of their own, but hearing this live totally floored me.)

and for me, i'd LOVE to see these songs done live. cos, i mean, i was at the tender age of *one* when this show i'm listening to went on. (yes, i know, i wasn't the coolest one-year-old ever, hopping on a jet plane off to France to see JD...so sorry... :D ) so i think a lot of people who didn't get to see them originally (for whatever reason, be it being too young at the time, or not knowing about JD yet, or what have you) are the ones who are all for this, whereas anyone who got to see JD originally are the ones who are screaming bloody murder at the thought of Barney commiting the ultimate sacrilege of sullying Ian's lyrics with his diametrically opposed vocal stylings?

i have to say, i do feel it's a bit silly...i fall into the camp of, "it's their bloody songs, so why can't and/or shouldn't they play them again?" granted, it is very strange hearing Barney's voice even in the few songs they've done so far...his voice is so completely different from Ian's. which is a good thing...i mean, at the beginning, when he was trying too hard to pick up where Ian had left off, he sounded far too nervous and unsure of himself and the music suffered for it. when he found his own voice, that's when it got to be more solid...and NO became its own thing and not so much a shadow of the previous incarnation.

but the songs...the songs are SO good, and SO powerful, i think it would be amazing for them to be played live again.

(besides, if a zillion other people in a zillion other sub-par bands can do a zillion other sub-par covers and/or blatant ripoffs of JD...why can't the remaining three members play their own songs? i think them doing it makes the most sense of all.)

thank you so much, Shugz.

and with having said that, know what i'd like to hear them do most?

DISORDER. 'twould make me a happy, happy girlie indeed to witness this. :D

(and of course, other stuff too. as i'd think would be obvious.)

but as there's no way i'd be able to see it done live this time round either (unless i magically came into some substantial money right about now), i s'pose it shouldn't matter so much to me...

classic NO...hrrm. decisions, decisions. Face Up would top that list for me, as would As It Is When It Was...Paradise...Weirdo...Lonesome Tonight...Age of Consent (of course)...Ceremony...uh...

...wow, too much to list here. i envy you for getting to go! :p

"THIS IS A CRISIS I KNEW HAD TO COME DESTROYING THE BALANCE I'D KEPT" : Ian Curtis 1956-1980

1977 < JOY DIVISION > 1980 Ian Curtis Bernard Albrecht Peter Hook Steven Morris

"LISTEN TO THE SILENCE,LET IT RING ON...................."

Originally posted by janaki thank you so much, Shugz. and with having said that, know what i'd like to hear them do most?DISORDER. 'twould make me a happy, happy girlie indeed to witness this. :D(and of course, other stuff too. as i'd think would be obvious.)but as there's no way i'd be able to see it done live this time round either (unless i magically came into some substantial money right about now), i s'pose it shouldn't matter so much to me...

yeah "disorder" would make my day too.. i reckon "shadowplay" could be a good choice though

What J.D. songs would you guys love to hear live, my choice would be, in no particular order: Disorder New Dawn Fades Isolation Dead Souls Incubation Heart And Soul Day Of The Lords Atmosphere Colony Transmission Wilderness She's Lost Control Decades Novelty Ceremony Autosuggestion Love Will Tear Us Apart

insight, the eternal, i remember nothing, passover, exercise one, something must break, candidate, sound of music, no love lost (why not???)

I have a sneaking feeling we may get to hear New Dawn Fades, it may even be introduced as "a Moby song" (cf Roskilde 84 for those who know what I'm talking about !). If they do Decades again I will probably need a change of underwear. They could do The Eternal easily enough - whatever they do will be mostly keyboard stuff as they are too lazy to do the guitar ones (says he not many days after posting a thread bemoaning the all-guitar LWTUA live recently).

So far they've done the following live: LWTUA Decades (twice in 84) She's Lost Control (twice in 85) Atmosphere Heart and Soul Isolation Transmission

It'd be bloody excellent to add Dead Souls, Disorder, Shadowplay, I Remember Nothing etc to that list. Surprise outsider - Something Must Break.....

'his voice is so completely different from Ian's. which is a good thing...i mean, at the beginning, when he was trying too hard to pick up where Ian had left off, he sounded far too nervous and unsure of himself and the music suffered for it. '

Actually, I totally disagree with this. I think his voice had much more emotion in it and sounded much more sincere when he was nervous and unsure of himself. It's the 'proper singing' bizarre mid-atlantic accent of the later years that stops me taking that material seriously. Barney could easily sing the JD stuff with the resepct it deserves if he tried, but he doesn't try does he ?

Originally posted by bill poster, in response to me:

'his voice is so completely different from Ian's. which is a good thing...i mean, at the beginning, when he was trying too hard to pick up where Ian had left off, he sounded far too nervous and unsure of himself and the music suffered for it. 'Actually, I totally disagree with this. I think his voice had much more emotion in it and sounded much more sincere when he was nervous and unsure of himself. It's the 'proper singing' bizarre mid-atlantic accent of the later years that stops me taking that material seriously. Barney could easily sing the JD stuff with the resepct it deserves if he tried, but he doesn't try does he ?

well, i'll agree that he did sound a bit more sincere when he was more nervous and unsure of himself. now, he sounds more guarded and jaded and less emotive, even if his voice has gotten more technically apt over the years. but the thing to which i was referring (and apparently not doing such a hot job at) is that it sounded too much at the beginning like he was trying to emulate Ian's voice...which he just *can't* do, him not actually *being* Ian and all.

it's like if you hear a song you like on the radio and sing along...you almost unconsciously try to emulate the same tones as whoever it is that's singing, right? and as a result, it never sounds quite right. it never sounds quite right until you become comfortable with singing it in your OWN voice, and not trying to sound like someone else.

truthfully, there's a lot i like about the earlier days (hello, most of Low-Life ), when Barney wasn't singing so smoothly as he is now (nor quite so on key most of the time :D )...because it *did* sound like he had that much more emotion invested in it. but the REALLY early stuff (In a Lonely Place," etc.) is sometimes a bit painful, because he still hadn't got over that hurdle of singing with his own voice yet at that point.

so in a way, you're right...it is sad. he sounds much more polished now, which in some ways is good and in others...not.

i thought in a lonely place was steve, at least on the version i heard. he also sings doubts even here, i believe.