Golden Memories - The Football Hooligan Phase

Any old timers remember a period when New Order started attracting football hooligans and casuals? Every other gig used to end in a scrap, often between the locals and the Manchester crowd. "Manchester, lah lah lah" was par for the course at many gigs.

My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85 had a big off during the gig between Mancs and Blackburn Youth, right on the dancefloor. Outside later loads of car windscreens were smashed and police hovered.

I also remember Manchester City's Young Guvnors turning up at GMEX in 1988 and taking on allcomers outside in the car park.

Anyone from Lancashire will remember a huge graffiti in Burnley saying "Suicide Squad - New Order". In fact Burnley's young hooligan crew were named "Suicide Section Five" which was directly lifted from Section 25. Their leader was a massive Factory fan.

The mid to late eighties, when the casual era was at its height, was the time when these incidents seemed to happen loads at New Order gigs.

Can anyone remember this era? Was anyone at any of the gigs mentioned?

Golden Memories- Everyone getting the shit kicked out of each other.

Blunderer wrote: My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85 had a big off during the gig between Mancs and Blackburn Youth,

yeh was at that one too.

da Yoof showed up in Warrington too. Good job they werent at Macc, the Aytoun St boys were ready for them that time.

All very fascinating for a little kid wearing a thin leather tie

Fac That wrote:

Blunderer wrote: My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85 had a big off during the gig between Mancs and Blackburn Youth,

yeh was at that one too.

da Yoof showed up in Warrington too. Good job they werent at Macc, the Aytoun St boys were ready for them that time.

All very fascinating for a little kid wearing a thin leather tie

I was at Warrington Spectrum Arena in 86,is that what you refer to, Fac? Lots of lads singing about City and United but I never saw any trouble. Thin Leather Tie? What was that about? I seem to remember them having a quick fashion rennaisance around 83 but definitely not for New Order fans?!?!?

I always remember seeing Alex in his lumberjack outfit at Old Trafford in the '80's, was he a naughty lad then

Blunderer wrote: I was at Warrington Spectrum Arena in 86,is that what you refer to, Fac? Lots of lads singing about City and United but I never saw any trouble. Thin Leather Tie? What was that about? I seem to remember them having a quick fashion rennaisance around 83 but definitely not for New Order fans?!?!?

It was during the support slot, Andy Robinsons band.

leather tie...errr yeh, oops. Bit of a Joy Division look, not worn outside NO gigs. I was only a nipper, thats my excuse.

Fac That wrote:

Blunderer wrote: I was at Warrington Spectrum Arena in 86,is that what you refer to, Fac? Lots of lads singing about City and United but I never saw any trouble. Thin Leather Tie? What was that about? I seem to remember them having a quick fashion rennaisance around 83 but definitely not for New Order fans?!?!?

It was during the support slot, Andy Robinsons band.

leather tie...errr yeh, oops. Bit of a Joy Division look, not worn outside NO gigs. I was only a nipper, thats my excuse.

Who were the support band at that gig?

I remember an older mate saying it was two roadies and a drum machine.

We were quaffing lager in the bar at the time so didn't see any bother.

Blunderer wrote:

My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85

so you didn't actually go to your first gig?

Blunderer wrote:

Who were the support band at that gig?

I remember an older mate saying it was two roadies and a drum machine.

We were quaffing lager in the bar at the time so didn't see any bother.

Life? I think. Andy R was a roadie/technician then. To be honest the story is second hand to me, I was so smashed on Vodka I thought the support band were new order, dont remember a thing.

hibster wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85

so you didn't actually go to your first gig?

A tragic, tragic story, one from from which I have never fully recovered. January 85, I had a ticket to see New Order with all my mates. On the night of the gig I had a shower and decided to have a quick fag in the bathroom because I thought the smell of the shampoo etc would drown out the fag smell. My mum went in, hit the roof and I was grounded for the night, ticket in pocket.

Rock and fuckin roll

I was at the Blackburn St Georges hall gig, and yep, my girlfriends car side-window got smashed as 2 hooligans fell onto it fighting each other.

Also at Preston Guildhall later that same year there was a massive scrap during the actual gig.

Andy was Life's singer, wasn't he?

Other swedges mid 80s - Portsmouth was a massive one, Chippenham a bit smaller, Margate the same, Tower Ballroom 85 fairly inconsequential, Oxford had its moments, Wolverhampton 86, even sleepy little backwaters like Malvern.

If he's counting that as a first gig, I can count Werchter, as at least I heard them and got to see them play LWTUA and BM from 300 yards away!

No, it was not my first gig but it should have been. My Mum denied me entry, that's for sure, in fact she denied me exit from the house in actual fact.

El Jarvo wrote:

ally wrote: Doesn't "denied entry" usually mean being turned away from the venue?

You should at least get one almighty shoeing off the bouncers being being allowed to use such an excuse.

The shoeing came from my Dad

Obviously the gig swedge had its own Factory catalogue number in those days and it should have been included in my "Great Lost Factory Products" thread.

FAC 180 - The Gig Swedge.

El Jarvo wrote:

hibster wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85

so you didn't actually go to your first gig?

Does that still count as a 'first gig' then?

And does 'denied entry' actually equate to 'being grounded'. Surely not?

i think you should at the very least get to the venue before you start saying you've been denied entry

There is no end to this. I was denied entry to every gig I would have liked to have seen before 1966, as I wasn't born and therefore couldn't go. And quite a few after that until about 1980, when I was born but lived too far away or was doing something else, couldn't afford it etc etc.

By the same token, can I just add that I've attended every New Order gig since 1989, but been barred from entry to all but two of them?

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: By the same token, can I just add that I've attended every New Order gig since 1989, but been barred from entry to all but two of them?

Absolutely! Who knows what breakthrough our blundering amigo has just made!

El Jarvo wrote:

Tim wrote: If he's counting that as a first gig, I can count Werchter, as at least I heard them and got to see them play LWTUA and BM from 300 yards away!

I'm counting Bedford Boys Club. I was in the county at the same time.

Er, I think?

I was at that gig (Bedford).To be honest the guy who promoted them that night did a much better job a few years later when he secured New Order for what i believe was a secret gig in Leicester.I think the venue was a nightclub,any way it was full of Bedfordians. Highlight was IALP.Lowlight was no BM.And yes there were plenty of football types.

The Palais in June 84? Some secret! Great set, great recording!

Shug wrote:

Fac That wrote: I always remember seeing Alex in his lumberjack outfit at Old Trafford in the '80's, was he a naughty lad then

Nah, in the old days he worked in a lumberyard, he was quintessentially a LUMBERJACK during the days........that's how he could afford his equipment

He cut down trees, he wears high heels, suspenders and a bra.

Oh gosh.

This is so embarrassing.:o

Shit.

I am so sorry,I really am.

Tim wrote: The Palais in June 84? Some secret! Great set, great recording!

Thats the one.The gig should have been held in Bedford but the guy who organised it could'nt get a big enough venue,or something. Never heard a recording of the gig,but yes,it was a great night. The promoter was Dec Hickey.He managed to attract some great bands to Bedford in the early/mid 80s

isaac wrote:

Tim wrote: The Palais in June 84? Some secret! Great set, great recording!

Thats the one.The gig should have been held in Bedford but the guy who organised it could'nt get a big enough venue,or something. Never heard a recording of the gig,but yes,it was a great night. The promoter was Dec Hickey.He managed to attract some great bands to Bedford in the early/mid 80s

So was there a FAC 180 at that gig?

Blunderer wrote:

isaac wrote:

Tim wrote: The Palais in June 84? Some secret! Great set, great recording!

Thats the one.The gig should have been held in Bedford but the guy who organised it could'nt get a big enough venue,or something. Never heard a recording of the gig,but yes,it was a great night. The promoter was Dec Hickey.He managed to attract some great bands to Bedford in the early/mid 80s

So was there a FAC 180 at that gig?

You've lost me!!

isaac wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

isaac wrote:

Tim wrote: The Palais in June 84? Some secret! Great set, great recording!

Thats the one.The gig should have been held in Bedford but the guy who organised it could'nt get a big enough venue,or something. Never heard a recording of the gig,but yes,it was a great night. The promoter was Dec Hickey.He managed to attract some great bands to Bedford in the early/mid 80s

So was there a FAC 180 at that gig?

You've lost me!!

FAC 180 = A gig swedge

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swedge

There always seemed to be a big New Order following on the Kippax (Man City's massive terrace)in the mid to late eighties. It was covert, but the link was definately there............Ah, happy days

hibster wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

My first New Order gig (to which I was denied entry at the last minute) at Blackburn King George's Hall in 85

so you didn't actually go to your first gig?

I was refused entry to my first gig for being under 18.The Birmingham Powerhouse gig ,June 1984.Does it still count as my first gig?? And didnt' have much better luck at my second attempt ,the Birmingham Tower Ballroom gig Oct 86.Had to leave after 6 songs on that occasion to catch the train home as i had an important day at work the next day.What an idiot .So does that count? .My first fully attended gig was Sheffield Roxy June 87.Got it right in the end but what a bloody pallaver:\ohwell:

2 classic moments come to my mind. Macclesfield v Darlo game away in cup 88'. Saw a fucking proper 8 foot St. Georges flag with the words M.C.F.C 'Service Crew' / New Order emblasened across Only a month later at G-mex the same said flag was again witnessed by mysel.

97' Ireland away qualification game (eventually abandoned). got a classic photo of a geezer from Carlisle UTD with a flag reading 'Carlisle UTD Border Crew / U.V.F New Order'. Quite scarry looking back

Lads from most norvern towns would still scrap whether they were at footy or a norder gig believe me.

Blunderer - try and relate to positive shit eh, we've all been there at some point in our lives

talkin footie rucks?

United v Chelsea '82.

Chelsea headhunters in their heyday. They gassed a pub on their way into Manchester, (The Old Cock, Stretford)

Then after the end of the game their boys got out and stormed the stretty end. Panic struck.

Big riot for hours, I was a kid and couldnt get me bus home. Didnt stop my mate Chris lobbin a brick at a copper horse. Ever seen a copper fly? I have :have:

Ended up spending 2 hours in a riot. United vs Pigs.

Chelsea went home. It was a bit too rough for the Rent Boys.

Anyway, I'm bringin Chelsea down Aint that true B**zy?.

El Jarvo wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Lads from most norvern towns would still scrap whether they were at footy or a norder gig believe me.

Isn't there a Norvern(Monkee) firm called 'Blue Order'?

Didn't Comrade Shampanyov used to call himself Blue Order, until he found out that it was associated with nasty things like violence and wasn't at all about teenage girls?

darran clarke wrote: There always seemed to be a big New Order following on the Kippax (Man City's massive terrace)in the mid to late eighties. It was covert, but the link was definately there............Ah, happy days

Happy days indeed. Lots of City fans within Factory. Rob Gretton drank in the Gardners near Maine Road every week, often with Mike Pickering and other Factory bods.

I remember Pickering commenting that The Gardners, after City were promoted in 85, was a snapshot of the Manchester music scene at the time.

Blunderer wrote:

darran clarke wrote: There always seemed to be a big New Order following on the Kippax (Man City's massive terrace)in the mid to late eighties. It was covert, but the link was definately there............Ah, happy days

Happy days indeed. Lots of City fans within Factory. Rob Gretton drank in the Gardners near Maine Road every week, often with Mike Pickering and other Factory bods.

I remember Pickering commenting that The Gardners, after City were promoted in 85, was a snapshot of the Manchester music scene at the time.

Yes happy days indeed i whent in the Garners every City home game would meet up with Rob and all me mates had some funny times in that pub. Oh to be back at maine road now instead of eastlands.Was down in Rusholme the other week for afew jars and most of the pubs have closed down now a part from the Osbourne .

was at blackburn,,just remember lots of vodka per gig,,but yup it kicked of,,funny not a lot happened the next night in leeds ,,the only real fight i got involved with was at cardiff 83,,,, it was my mate and some "london" crew who had come over ,nothing like being outside the old factory club though..,,though it is fair to say the old 6.57 crew were bought up on joy division... so why dont the order play pompey ??

El Jarvo wrote: Isn't there a Norvern(Monkee) firm called 'Blue Order'?

'Blue Order' is the name coined by the ahem official Rangers supporters singing section. Fine upstanding pillars of society one and all.

79 order wrote:

so why dont the order play pompey ??

They did, August 84. Biggest ruck I've ever seen at an Order gig. Half the crowd seemed to be involved!

pompey 84 is well legendary,,unfortunatley was in ibiza.. so why the 22 year wait ,,is it only cos half the crowd kicked off

El Jarvo wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Lads from most norvern towns would still scrap whether they were at footy or a norder gig believe me.

Isn't there a Norvern(Monkee) firm called 'Blue Order'?

Yes Jarvo, there is and unfortunately i teach in the shithole - Hartlepool, quite often 'link' up with Sunderland when down sarf

I was at the blackburn gig.barney dedicated a song to a lad from blackburn that cant be here because he's been locked up. The thing is,it was for killing a carlise united fan at the carlise v blackburn boxing day match with a brick. i was at that as well !!

anyway how come the other two phases only have 11 replies between them and hooligan phase has 50 !!!

banshee wrote: I was at the blackburn gig.barney dedicated a song to a lad from blackburn that cant be here because he's been locked up. The thing is,it was for killing a carlise united fan at the carlise v blackburn boxing day match with a brick. i was at that as well !!

Me too. A 1-0 away win at Carlise over christmas,(new years day?) with around 8000 rovers around the ground. Kicking off all over the shop and big style in the car park after the game. It was my mates cousin who was banged up for the brick chucking. Scary for me as a 14 year old wannabe and a sad day. King Georges was just top though. I'd seen it go off a couple of years earlier at a PIL gig with some local punks at the same venue but it was nothing compared to this. Think the mancs turned town over that night. Give em that one!

Andrew Sayer wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Lads from most norvern towns would still scrap whether they were at footy or a norder gig believe me.

Isn't there a Norvern(Monkee) firm called 'Blue Order'?

Yes Jarvo, there is and unfortunately i teach in the shithole - Hartlepool, quite often 'link' up with Sunderland when down sarf

The irony being,any norvern monkeys would be hung as French spies on them awaydays

El Jarvo wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Lads from most norvern towns would still scrap whether they were at footy or a norder gig believe me.

Isn't there a Norvern(Monkee) firm called 'Blue Order'?

get it right al a nortern monkee hanging firm!!!!! blue order at hartlepool