New Order and Depeche Mode

Is it too much of a generalisation to say that the way Americans perceive Depeche Mode (and maybe NO to some extent) is quite different to the way they are seen in Europe or the UK at least? I think it was Neil Tennant who dryly attributed Depeche's US success to them being seen as a "Pretty in Pink band" which although quite apt, is kinda funny since NO and not DM are on that soundtrack.

FWIW I think Violator is certainly as strong as the best NO has produced but aside from the odd moment of brilliance, there is an awful lot of flab in the rest of DMs catalogue.

this thread still goin on???

:bigfuckinheadscratch:

Lets just say the NO & DM are the most respected "band" amongst the dance/electronic music community..that should be reason enough lump them together for now...

I don´t find anything strange with these two favorites of mine being compared with eachother. They were labelled as parts of the same movement already from the start, because they both started around the same time and used more or less electronics to create music.

People need to label things and use genres. And of course the whole fuzz is a media-creation. We all know that these two bands are miles apart, but take JOE the Reggae-man, for example, he probably would consider DM and NO to be in the same category of bands.

I listen to both bands myself, and I started to do this in my teens. Must say that a crucial factor for NO was that they were considered electronic. Matters of Image and Identity shouldn´t be ignored. How many death-metal rockers do you imagine would admit that they also love Julio Iglesias? I love both of them, with the exception of death metal.

mika

oh, i dont know, what was the question?

Chris owen wrote: Both also suffered an early loss from which it was thought they might not recover (Curtis and Clarke), and both were formed in 1980 I believe.

Vince Clarke didn't commit suicide, though one might think that a better alternative to Yazoo and Erasure (didn't mind The Assembly though), so I think that recovery from loss here's not too comparable.

Okay, Okay, now here comes a lynching from the Yazoo and Erasure devotees . . . :mad4:

SallyCinnamon wrote: Vince Clarke didn't commit suicide, though one might think that a better alternative to Yazoo and Erasure (didn't mind The Assembly though), so I think that recovery from loss here's not too comparable.

Okay, Okay, now here comes a lynching from the Yazoo and Erasure devotees . . . :mad4:

I used to love Erasure. It was my favorite band when I was a teenager. Erasure was #1, Depeche Mode was #2, the Pet Shot Boys was #3 and finally New Order was #4. Yes, in those days, I lumped all four groups into the same category of synthpop.

I still like Erasure's songs a lot, they had the best pop melody that only Depeche Mode's "Just Can't Get Enough" can match. Not surprising since it came from Vince Clarke.

Canuck21 wrote:

Chris owen wrote: Both also suffered an early loss from which it was thought they might not recover (Curtis and Clarke), and both were formed in 1980 I believe. But in spite of his self-abusing past, Gahan continues to bely his age. NO could take note!

I don't know but it seems that it's much worse losing Ian Curtis than losing Vince Clarke. Also, I honestly rather see a fat Barney dancing like a monkey than David Gahan dancing like this:

Dave has a nice arse in tight pants. Of course, I watch first for the music, but the visuals are nice. They were better when Alan Wilder was part of the group, though. But, if you don't like his dancing there, you shouldn't watch this video:

Strangelove, strange hips, strange attire

Although, why were they perceived as a 1 finger, monophonic synth band when Alan Wilder clearly plays with both hands and all fingers in most live shows?

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote: Dave has a nice arse in tight pants. Of course, I watch first for the music, but the visuals are nice. They were better when Alan Wilder was part of the group, though. But, if you don't like his dancing there, you shouldn't watch this video:

Strangelove, strange hips, strange attire

That was indeed cringe worthy >_<. I've even seen worse from them but I can't find the YouTube link anymore.

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote: Although, why were they perceived as a 1 finger, monophonic synth band when Alan Wilder clearly plays with both hands and all fingers in most live shows?

That I don't know. New Order is more of a 1 finger group than Depeche Mode but I still think that the music of NO to be vastly superior. Add the guitar, the bass and the drums, plus Barney's detached voice and NO's music is my morning sun.

Sorry, I only meant in their early days were DM considered a one-fingered monosynth bunch. Wilder was a classically trained pianist, hence his very good live playing, especially on piano. One difference between the two bands: if Hookey wore a pair of black angel wings on stage he'd be laughed out of Manchester!

I never meant to draw a direct, literal comparison between the losses of Curtis and Clarke. Losing someone to suicide is infinitely more painful and tragic, while Clarke just wanted to form other bands. However, the musical effect on each band, in terms of losing song-writing ability and a huge driving force, was significant (I think I'm right in saying Clarke was DM's founder as well as their creative force). JD/NO needed a new vocalist/lyricist/frontman, while DM needed a new songwriter/lyricist/leader. Both bands could well have folded. Imagine the music we wouldn't have if they had.

Chris owen wrote:

I've often thought both bands had a similar visual aesthetic;

Well, you're right to notice the aesthetic connection. Martyn Atkins, the person responsible for all of Depeche Mode's sleeve design and typography from 1982-1988, actually designed with Peter Saville the sleeve for Joy Division's Closer as well as a number of other Factory Records sleeves.

I think the biggest (but certainly not the only) difference between the two bands is that one was a purely electronic band that had a tangential interest in traditional rock instruments, while the other was a band that played traditional rock instruments (albeit in a quite interesting and experimental way) that had a tangential interest in electronic music. Never-the-less, there was an intersection of those two approaches and that's why they're often both cited among the few very important pioneers in electronic pop.

DM have two pretty good vocalists whilst NO can only manage about 3/4 of one.

i thought i'd throw that into this endlessly pointless discussion.

You like, you don't but their not mutually exclusive or reliant.

For me NO will always be top but I have to say that Playing the Angel is pure brilliance. I adore it, captures the mood of a sad state of mind perfectly.

aapierre wrote: DM have two pretty good vocalists whilst NO can only manage about 3/4 of one.

i thought i'd throw that into this endlessly pointless discussion.

You like, you don't but their not mutually exclusive or reliant.

We all know about the vocalists talent already; it's not like we don't know about Barney's flaw by now. This is the reason discussing will show why one is preferred over the other despite its limits. To me, it's just fun to compare and to express how we see each band.

Pointless? This is a place to talk about NO and things related. Why bother coming here if it's not for discussing.

7bong8 wrote:

I think the biggest (but certainly not the only) difference between the two bands is that one was a purely electronic band that had a tangential interest in traditional rock instruments, while the other was a band that played traditional rock instruments (albeit in a quite interesting and experimental way) that had a tangential interest in electronic music.

Seconded.

Ok, I have to weigh in on this as I've pissed a LOT of money on DM's single's boxes and Cure remasters (Jesus help me!!)

DM, The Cure, and NO share many similarities....British, born out of the post-punk movement...both peaked commerically and critically in the late 80's/early 90's (See Violator, Distintegration and Technique)....they all tend to like the sequencer and synth, as well as bust out the guitar (some more than others)

While it is unfortunate that in "Septic Land" (as some would say) that they are grouped together, I got into each band at a specific period in my life. Today I embrace the music of all 3 bands (NOT the image...Robert Smith looks like a fucking crack whore w/ an unlimted hair/makeup allowance and don't get me started on DM, especially during...well, basically their whole career pre-Ultra)

Bottom line...hmm, I've lost me train of thought...they all are good, but NO is my first band I really got into and the only gig of the 3 I've seen....they are my ultimate choice.

Shall we link this thread to depeche mode dot com? LOL! Cheers!