Bizarre discography discrepances

Hello all, I've been lurking for years here but never felt compelled to pipe up until now. Many thanks to those who have put the effort into making this site such a valuable resource.

I've finally begun cataloguing my NO collection that I've built up over the last 22 years, and have encountered a number of places where the discographies here or elsewhere don't jibe with what I've actually got. One of the more interesting issues is the various versions of Bizarre Love Triangle.

It appears to me that the US 7" of BLT (with ELC on the b-side) is in fact a unique version, with a running time of 3:36. It differs from the UK 7" (called 'Edit' here) as follows: it starts later (at the last two beats, or seven hits, of the snare drum fill), and then has a different arrangement following the second chorus. I don't know of any other places where this version appears.

The 3:23 version labeled '7" edit' on Qwest PRO-A-2636 (called 'Threesome Version' here) is edited from this US 7": it has a shorter instrumental break before the final chorus, and the end fades out.

Finally, there is no 'Canadian Edit'. I have the Canadian FAC 26 BLT 7" gatefold single, and though it is labeled as 'Remixed & Edited', it's just the regular UK 7" version. I do not have either Polygram DJF206 or Qwest DJ 28421-7, which are the other two places the "Canadian Edit" is supposed to appear, but numerous other sources list both items as having the 3:40 UK 7" version on both sides.

As a side note, I find it interesting that the length given for the "Canadian version" here is 3:36, which is the length of the US 7". Perhaps there was a mixup?

To sum, I think the discography is errant as follows:

• The BLT US 7" has a unique version with running time 3:36.
• The BLT Canadian 7" has the UK 7" version ('Edit') with running time 3:40.
• PolyGram DJF 206 and Qwest DJ 28421-7 have the 3:40 UK 7" version on both sides. (I cannot personally verify this, but that is what other sources indicate.)

Anyway, that's my report from the field. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary? I'd be especially curious to hear from anyone who has PolyGram DJF 206 or Qwest DJ 28421-7; what's on each side? Are they the same? The UK 7" version starts with the bass synth, whereas the US 7" version starts with snare drum.

Cheers, Ivan.

done for the audience in much the same way,, free released 2 versions of wishing well .. one for hard rock u/k and the other for our cousins..

you might hurt yourself.

BRILLIANT first post IVAN. Mr DISCOGRAPHY who posts here will probably be able to help you as he is our resident expert on TIMINGS.I cannot add anything to what you have said although i do own the CANADIAN gatefold i hadn't noticed it was the same as the UK one. Regards Rocket Mick

it amazes me that people worry about these things. No offense.

Well, I think it's his first post and he didnt' ask what we put on our bacon butty, do we shop at Tesco, do we like the Cure, is Bernard cute, are you into Paedophilia, etc, etc.

Brilliant!

But he'll never fit in!

(Joke! Welcome!)

Missy Jem wrote: Well, I think it's his first post and he didnt' ask what we put on our bacon butty, do we shop at Tesco, do we like the Cure, is Bernard cute, are you into Paedophilia, etc, etc.

Brilliant!

But he'll never fit in!

(Joke! Welcome!)

you're right...i should be more welcoming

it's time for a best sauce thread.:p

Thanks for the warm welcome! I figured that's the kind of first post that could scare people away, so I'm glad it didn't. (And Jonathan: well, you've either got collectoritis or you don't!)

I've got a lot more where that came from as well as many thoughts/opinions/experiences related to New Order, so I'm sure you haven't heard the last of me.

Cheers, Ivan.

elevate whats on your mind

Mr Discography has entered the building....

Unless there are some different pressings of the Canadian and US 7 inches, my suspicion is you've got the two singles and their sleeves mixed up!

The versions I own of BLT are as follows:

UK 7" Mix - 3:45: Starts as the Brotherhood version with bass and drum fill, then goes into the version in the video (without the weird spoken bit, obviously)! This version is also on the Qwest CD single of Bizarre Love Triangle, and oddly didn't appear on 'Singles', despite it being the single mix!

Canadian FAC 26 Mix - 3:36: I can assure you that this definitely is a different mix to the UK seven inch - same as the single mix, but starts with a drum fill in and has a shorter instrumental passage, as you described for the US 7" with Every Little Counts on the flip.

As you say, the 'Threesome' version is exactly the same as the 3:36 mix but fades at the end.

Along with the regular 7" and 12" versions of 'Bizarre Dub Triangle', and the 12" mix of 'Bizarre Love Triangle', there is also an 'Extended Edit' (4:58) on the Qwest promo PRO-A-2636 that is a shorter version of the 12" mix.

Andy

PS, click my 'www' image link at the bottom of my messages to see my New Order track list, in order of release with running times!

Andy

Mr Discography, I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance! I am sure we'll be having lots to talk about!

Mr Discography wrote: Unless there are some different pressings of the Canadian and US 7 inches, my suspicion is you've got the two singles and their sleeves mixed up!

I can assure you I do not have them mixed up -- I just checked right now, needle on the vinyl and everything.

The versions I own of BLT are as follows: UK 7" Mix - 3:45: Starts as the Brotherhood version with bass and drum fill, then goes into the version in the video (without the weird spoken bit, obviously)! This version is also on the Qwest CD single of Bizarre Love Triangle.

I've confirmed the same on both the UK 7" and the Qwest CD single. However, it does not appear on the Qwest US 7" I've got (with ELC on the flip).

Canadian FAC 26 Mix - 3:36: I can assure you that this definitely is a different mix to the UK seven inch - same as the single mix, but starts with a drum fill in and has a shorter instrumental passage, as you described for the US 7" with Every Little Counts on the flip.

So you're sure this specifically appears on your copy of FAC 26? Because if that's the case, then there's got to be more than one pressing of that single. (If it matters, mine has a gatefold cover, and the label says "remixed & edited" with a running time of 3:40, and looks identical to the picture on the BLT page here.) The music on mine is exactly the same as the UK 7".

This version definitely does not appear on my FAC 26, but it it definitely does appear on my US 7" (with ELC), and the time listed on the label of that is 3:36 as expected.

As you say, the 'Threesome' version is exactly the same as the 3:36 mix but fades at the end.

Actually, it's not exactly the same. Apart from the fade, in the 3:36 version, the instrumental break between the second and third choruses is 12 bars long, and in the 3:23 version on PRO-A-2636, it's only 8 bars long, skipping the last 4 bars of "washy synth" which immediately precede the first chorus (and both choruses on the LP version). I can't actually speak for the Threesome soundtrack, but I'm describing the 3:23 version on PRO-A-2636, which I have.

So you think I'm mixed up, and I think you're mixed up! Is it possible that there are really two variations of both FAC 26 and the US 7"? Seems most unlikely, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

If it helps, the lead-out scratchings on my US 7" say: (a-side) 7-28421-A-SH1 R-17252-SH1 Precision 15531 1-1 (b-side) 7-28421-B-SH1 R-17253-SH1 Precision 15531-X 1-1

And on my Canadian 7": (a-side) FAC 26A SNB 230 (b-side) FAC 26B SNB 230 Dm (signature) 91 (stamped)

What do you think?

Ivan.

Ivan X wrote: Finally, there is no 'Canadian Edit'. I have the Canadian FAC 26 BLT 7" gatefold single, and though it is labeled as 'Remixed & Edited', it's just the regular UK 7" version. I do not have either Polygram DJF206 or Qwest DJ 28421-7, which are the other two places the "Canadian Edit" is supposed to appear, but numerous other sources list both items as having the 3:40 UK 7" version on both sides.

As a side note, I find it interesting that the length given for the "Canadian version" here is 3:36, which is the length of the US 7". Perhaps there was a mixup?

FYI: Timings in the New Order Discography are not necessarily exact... Most of the time the time is taken from the sleeve, which often is not exact down to the second. In case of too large variation, actual timing is used (tricky on tracks that fade).

I can't remember if the DJF206 and the US 7" promo lists the same tracks because someone confirmed it or because it was an "educated guess". I have the US promo but not the CA one.

A lot of variations of edits have become known (trainspotting listeners? :) )in later years and the discographies out there and here do not have 100% correct information.

One easy way to check this is to compare each track in a suitable software package. I have used MixMeister to this kind of things before. It allows me to compare the tracks down to a waveform level. I'd be interested to do this in order to make the Discography as correct as possible.

BTW: Ivan, I'll get back to you regarding the 12" you mailed about.

/TLV

TLV wrote: I can't remember if the DJF206 and the US 7" promo lists the same tracks because someone confirmed it or because it was an "educated guess". I have the US promo but not the CA one.

If it's convenient for you to do so, I'd be curious to know what the US promo has on each -- if it's the '3:36 version/Canadian Edit', it starts with the snare, and if it's the '3:45/UK 7"'), it starts with the bass synth.

A lot of variations of edits have become known (trainspotting listeners? :) )in later years and the discographies out there and here do not have 100% correct information.

Of course! But that is why I'm trying to do my little bit to correct what errors there are if I find them! But I don't want to make any bold claims without corroboration...

One easy way to check this is to compare each track in a suitable software package. I have used MixMeister to this kind of things before. It allows me to compare the tracks down to a waveform level. I'd be interested to do this in order to make the Discography as correct as possible.

I would too, and would be glad to help...in this particular case, it's not necessary because the versions we're talking about are audibly different from the first note.

BTW: Ivan, I'll get back to you regarding the 12" you mailed about.

That would be awesome.

Ivan X wrote: Mr Discography, I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance! I am sure we'll be having lots to talk about!

Mr Discography wrote: Unless there are some different pressings of the Canadian and US 7 inches, my suspicion is you've got the two singles and their sleeves mixed up!

I can assure you I do not have them mixed up -- I just checked right now, needle on the vinyl and everything.

The versions I own of BLT are as follows: UK 7" Mix - 3:45: Starts as the Brotherhood version with bass and drum fill, then goes into the version in the video (without the weird spoken bit, obviously)! This version is also on the Qwest CD single of Bizarre Love Triangle.

I've confirmed the same on both the UK 7" and the Qwest CD single. However, it does not appear on the Qwest US 7" I've got (with ELC on the flip).

Canadian FAC 26 Mix - 3:36: I can assure you that this definitely is a different mix to the UK seven inch - same as the single mix, but starts with a drum fill in and has a shorter instrumental passage, as you described for the US 7" with Every Little Counts on the flip.

So you're sure this specifically appears on your copy of FAC 26? Because if that's the case, then there's got to be more than one pressing of that single. (If it matters, mine has a gatefold cover, and the label says "remixed & edited" with a running time of 3:40, and looks identical to the picture on the BLT page here.) The music on mine is exactly the same as the UK 7".

This version definitely does not appear on my FAC 26, but it it definitely does appear on my US 7" (with ELC), and the time listed on the label of that is 3:36 as expected.

As you say, the 'Threesome' version is exactly the same as the 3:36 mix but fades at the end.

Actually, it's not exactly the same. Apart from the fade, in the 3:36 version, the instrumental break between the second and third choruses is 12 bars long, and in the 3:23 version on PRO-A-2636, it's only 8 bars long, skipping the last 4 bars of "washy synth" which immediately precede the first chorus (and both choruses on the LP version). I can't actually speak for the Threesome soundtrack, but I'm describing the 3:23 version on PRO-A-2636, which I have.

So you think I'm mixed up, and I think you're mixed up! Is it possible that there are really two variations of both FAC 26 and the US 7"? Seems most unlikely, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

If it helps, the lead-out scratchings on my US 7" say: (a-side) 7-28421-A-SH1 R-17252-SH1 Precision 15531 1-1 (b-side) 7-28421-B-SH1 R-17253-SH1 Precision 15531-X 1-1

And on my Canadian 7": (a-side) FAC 26A SNB 230 (b-side) FAC 26B SNB 230 Dm (signature) 91 (stamped)

What do you think?

Ivan.

Well done, Ivan X !! Last summer I 'discovered' these variations as well, exactly how you described it. So I'm not the only one anymore who's listening very carefully to all the different edits! And it seems we've got the same 7"

I used some software to compare all the beats et cetera and again Ivan, you're completely right.