tracks w/mastering problems

I was wondering how many New Order tracks there are that have mastering problems relative to other appearances (so that we know where to find the good ones!) Some that come to mind:

Senses: Version on original Factory CD chops off the very beginning of the very first note (seems minor, but it bugs me every time) as compared with the vinyl. I don't know if any later editions correct this.

Blue Monday: The "original" version on Blue Monday-95, International, and Singles starts 5 beats (11 kick drum hits) too late and has awful sound (hissy and warbly). The one on Substance and Retro doesn't have these problems.

True Faith: On Substance, Retro, and Singles, at 1:12 (the word "see" in the second line of the first instance of the chorus), there is a burst of distortion not heard on the vinyl. The version on International doesn't have this problem (and if you count the -94 version, that doesn't either). This issue doesn't bother me that much, but still.

It's not exactly the same but honorary mention goes to TPK for the shortened version on Substance as compared with the vinyl (even the Substance vinyl!)

Any others you know of?

Cheers, Ivan.

Elegia on Low Life?

Strange Day(?) off Movement (could be Senses, could be ICB? (sorry these titles dont stick with me)). Plus 5-8-6 and Perfect Kiss.

All of these have problems with cutting Barneys vocal.

The first one comes in near the end as "ange day", 5-8-6 goes "yes I heard you, cherd you, cherd you, cherd you calling" and the obvious one Perfect Kiss ends with "whe" (where the final vocal passage was cut).

"strange day" is called Truth.

NO Regret wrote: Strange Day(?) ..." and the obvious one Perfect Kiss ends with "whe" (where the final vocal passage was cut).

I noticed that one as well with TPK. However it was being produced on the limit of what NO/Factory had available - budgets, technology etc. and the 'whe' error adds a bit of character to the track as in creating new ideas/music they were willing to make errors rather than create the 'perfect'/'plastic' pop which was around in the mid '80's. Cheers!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Strange Day(?) ..." and the obvious one Perfect Kiss ends with "whe" (where the final vocal passage was cut).

I noticed that one as well with TPK. However it was being produced on the limit of what NO/Factory had available - budgets, technology etc. and the 'whe' error adds a bit of character to the track as in creating new ideas/music they were willing to make errors rather than create the 'perfect'/'plastic' pop which was around in the mid '80's. Cheers!

Plus with Kiss of Death there are all those cut vocal fade ins. Maybe they were poking extra fun at themselves?

The mentions of 'Perfect Kiss', '5-8-6' and 'Truth' aren't mastering errors... They were mixed and/or edited that way, so there's nothing there that mastering alone would be able to fix.

In the case of that looped vocal part in 5-8-6 and the "whe...." cut off bit in the edit of The Perfect Kiss - how do you know that isn't exactly as they intended it to be, and aren't "mistakes".

Anyway, the topic is about mastering errors, not people's opinions on how tracks were mixed.

Andy

JV wrote:

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Strange Day(?) ..." and the obvious one Perfect Kiss ends with "whe" (where the final vocal passage was cut).

I noticed that one as well with TPK. However it was being produced on the limit of what NO/Factory had available - budgets, technology etc. and the 'whe' error adds a bit of character to the track as in creating new ideas/music they were willing to make errors rather than create the 'perfect'/'plastic' pop which was around in the mid '80's. Cheers!

Plus with Kiss of Death there are all those cut vocal fade ins. Maybe they were poking extra fun at themselves?

It's a "dub" mix... Vocals are cut in and out all the time with dub mixes!

Andy

Mr Discography wrote:

JV wrote:

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Strange Day(?) ..." and the obvious one Perfect Kiss ends with "whe" (where the final vocal passage was cut).

I noticed that one as well with TPK. However it was being produced on the limit of what NO/Factory had available - budgets, technology etc. and the 'whe' error adds a bit of character to the track as in creating new ideas/music they were willing to make errors rather than create the 'perfect'/'plastic' pop which was around in the mid '80's. Cheers!

Plus with Kiss of Death there are all those cut vocal fade ins. Maybe they were poking extra fun at themselves?

It's a "dub" mix... Vocals are cut in and out all the time with dub mixes!

Andy

Yeah, I know that. But the fades and cuts are pretty funny sounding, in that they amuse me.

How about bad track separation? It always bugged me that the first beat of Confusion is at the end of BM on Substance.

Not on my Factory version, it ain't!

Mr Discography wrote: The mentions of 'Perfect Kiss', '5-8-6' and 'Truth' aren't mastering errors... They were mixed and/or edited that way, so there's nothing there that mastering alone would be able to fix.

In the case of that looped vocal part in 5-8-6 and the "whe...." cut off bit in the edit of The Perfect Kiss - how do you know that isn't exactly as they intended it to be, and aren't "mistakes".

Anyway, the topic is about mastering errors, not people's opinions on how tracks were mixed.

Andy

They may be intended but they sound crap. Thats my opinion and if Ive swayed from the original thread then i make no apologies. Lifes too short.

ally wrote: I agree with Mr D. that most of the issues mentioned so far are more to do with the mixing and/or editing of the songs rather than mastering problems.

One glaring mastering error I can think of is on Retro Disc 1. During Ceremony around 1:51-56 the sound disappears into a murky void for a split second. The glitch isn't there on the Substance or International compilations so it was definitely a bit of an oversight by the people in charge of the box set. Especially as box sets are supposed to have flawless audio quality!

Other than that, the masterings on the Factory era albums (Republic as well actually) are mostly dismal and in desperate need a remaster (+ bonus tracks). A few of the mid-80s songs could benefit from a slight remix as well as long as any new effort was faithful to the original era's sound.

I think Retro (bar that Ceremony glitch) and International have the best masterings; a really crisp and clear sound. For some reason Singles was horribly done and you can clearly hear the distortion on most tracks

I've only really noticed distortion on Temptation, but perhaps there is more.

ally wrote: I agree with Mr D. that most of the issues mentioned so far are more to do with the mixing and/or editing of the songs rather than mastering problems.

Exactly. Perhaps a different thread could be started for people with gripes about particular mixes. I wanted to peg down where there are specific mastering problems on given releases.

One glaring mastering error I can think of is on Retro Disc 1. During Ceremony around 1:51-56 the sound disappears into a murky void for a split second.

Huh, I hadn't noticed that! (Probably because there's nothing actually on Retro Disc 1 that I didn't possess elsewhere.) Good one.

Other than that, the masterings on the Factory era albums (Republic as well actually) are mostly dismal and in desperate need a remaster (+ bonus tracks). A few of the mid-80s songs could benefit from a slight remix as well as long as any new effort was faithful to the original era's sound.

Amen to that. I find Low-life in particular borderline unlistenable, which is a pity given what a remarkable album it is. A remaster with the full-length (not the Substance-edited) TPK as a bonus would be a blessing. I am curious which mid-80's songs you think ought to be remixed (and why)?

I think Retro (bar that Ceremony glitch) and International have the best masterings; a really crisp and clear sound. For some reason Singles was horribly done and you can clearly hear the distortion on most tracks

I hadn't noticed, but I haven't listened to Singles closely either. Are there any tracks in particular that stand out as poorly done to your ears?

Also, periodicially I see people make reference to a "remastered" edition of Substance, or the US edition sounding better than the Factory edition, etc. Are there in fact issues of Substance which sound better than others?

I find it surprising (and disappointing!) that a band who have put such care and sonic precision into their production on vinyl have such poor-sounding digital releases (Blue Monday as it appears on Blue Monday-95, International and Singles is a particular travesty -- it sounds like someone's home bootleg tape).

This thread is depressing.:(

Aries wrote: How about bad track separation? It always bugged me that the first beat of Confusion is at the end of BM on Substance.

I don't have that on mine. You sure iTunes isn't crossfading or something? Nice picture btw.

Aries wrote: This thread is depressing.:(

Try McFly or The Feeling websites for more uplifting feel good friendly banter.

There's a scratchy sound just as the big breakthrough in Elegia happens, like someone turned up a synth part and the level control (or possibly the fader on the desk) was dodgy. It's possible no-one noticed it and it went right through and stayed in after the final mastering and pressing!

These examples are, of course, different from coughs etc which made it to the final cut. I like the one at the start of Run.

Chemical wrote: There's a scratchy sound just as the big breakthrough in Elegia happens, like someone turned up a synth part and the level control (or possibly the fader on the desk) was dodgy. It's possible no-one noticed it and it went right through and stayed in after the final mastering and pressing!

These examples are, of course, different from coughs etc which made it to the final cut. I like the one at the start of Run.

Surely you mean Loveless?

Half of the songs on Brotherhood are in dire need of a remaster, specifically As It Is When It Was. Great song, but sounds absolutely horrible when turned up.

Surely you mean Loveless?

Yes, my mistake. Sorry.

I'm surprised, that while all these Tonmeister graduates are taking each and every mixing choice and making it a mastering problem, that no one has spotted the most impressive one of all, and it defo happened post-mix so it probably DOES count as a mastering screwup.

The Beach, has a fuckin AWFUL tape edit in it. It's where everything drops back in after one of the drum only sections, the whole lot kicks in nearly a demisemiquaver early.

The odd thing is, that tape editing gets easier the further up the food chain you get. BM was probably recorded on 24 track, 2 inch tape at 30IPS (inches/sec), and mastered to 1/4 or 1/2 inch also at 30 IPS so, if we round BM's tempo to 120 for ease, each beat comes out at being about 15 inches long, and a demisemiquaver at about 2 inches. Never figured out how they managed to fluff it so bad.

It must have been done to the original stereo master or they'd have done it again and got it right. I am however really glad that no smug major label mook has tried to "fix" it with his pet ADR operator.....only a matter of time though.