The first true New Order song

I'm listening to In A Lonely Place, and I'm thinking that this song sounds like a JD album track, fitting in perfectly either on Side A of Unknown Pleasures or anywhere on Closer.

Ceremony on the other hand, sounds a lot like a Joy Division single. Perhaps one that could have been in the same realm as Transmission or Love Will Tear Us Apart.

The Movement album, while showing some advanced electronic musical development, still has a JD vibe. Most likely since JD's Martin Hannett is producing. Personally I think Peter is trying to emulate Ian's voice in the two songs he sings moreso than Barney.

I think, however, that Everything's Gone Green is in style, feel, and even to an extent singing, the very first listen into the future. It's the first song they used a sequencer, and while it does seem a bit primitive today with how much synths have advanced, it still holds up well sonically.

And I think it's some of Hook's best playing with either JD or NO. He sounds absolutely phenomenal on it. The mixture of him with the sequencer and Barney's distorted guitar puts you in another place like nothing in Joy Division ever could.

J

You could say and people do that EGG is the first true New Order song and you are probably right but Temptation has that one for me.

Ceremony still sounds unique--different from everything else JD did, even These Days and Isolation, which for me represent the peak of JD's evolution. So although it's a JD song technically, I always regard it as a New Order one, and the first.

I don't think it matters where you draw the line but "Everything's Gone Green" does seem to be the first post-"Ceremony" song that sounds confident and is not smothered by Hannent... and "EGG" is a classic, timeless song, the best song of the 1981 releases.

I must admit that the 4 "singles" songs have always drawn my interest more than the album Movement's songs. Maybe they were less overwrought/overproduced by Hannent than Movement and the singles are more New Order.

Why the need to separate and compartmentalise? Bands change style throughout their career - it's like asking when was the first 'real' Cure song, something like 'Faith' is a totally different sound to 'Friday I'm In Love' but who cares, it's still the same band.

Well the Cure wasn't trying to form a new image because their leadsinger passed on, so I think it is a valid question....when did NO break free from Ian's shadow and become a band in their own right?

I have to agree EGG is the first NO song. Procession and Ceremony (while favorites of mine) still have a JD form to them...EDD is the first that seperates itself.

Atmosphere

Listen to Barney's keys on this, extremely NO.

pumped full of drugs wrote: I don't think it matters where you draw the line but "Everything's Gone Green" does seem to be the first post-"Ceremony" song that sounds confident and is not smothered by Hannent... and "EGG" is a classic, timeless song, the best song of the 1981 releases.

I must admit that the 4 "singles" songs have always drawn my interest more than the album Movement's songs. Maybe they were less overwrought/overproduced by Hannent than Movement and the singles are more New Order.

I think the key is 'smothered by Hannett'. If you take away the Hannett sound from Movement then I would argue that 'chosen time' is the first New Order 'formula' track and perhaps one or two other 'candidates' (hey, did you see what I did there?). The bass sequencer, the higher register Hook playing. Some of the live performaces of these tracks wank all over the studio vesions - thankfully Hannett wasn't retained any longer - he couldn't have taken them further.

That said, I think there is a continuity across the two bands - so why try to separate them.

Definately WFTSC:D

Just Can't Get Enough

I'm tempted to say Procession...only because it seems like Ian wouldn't have sung that song, and it doesn't haev the "eery" vibe that Closer had.

But, most likely Everthings Gone Green :)

Big Black wrote: Just Can't Get Enough

So THAT'S the title!!

I always thought he was singing "I just can't get it up"

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: nah.....it was deffo Getting Away With It....

Temptation?

No Holiday wrote: I think, however, that Everything's Gone Green is in style, feel, and even to an extent singing, the very first listen into the future. It's the first song they used a sequencer, and while it does seem a bit primitive today with how much synths have advanced, it still holds up well sonically.

"EGG" was not made with sequencers. In that point they used to play with an ARP Quadra synth. Oscillators and filters did the synth riffs sounded "broken" or syncopated as sequencers.

I think "Chosen Time" was the first true New Order song... Very modern disco punk drums! Without a doubt, an example of dance-oriented post-punk!

Are we talking about the first New Order style/genre/electronic sound song or the first song that the've written after Ian has died? If its the former, i have to say Isolation. The NO version in 'In Session' is the best version of the song!

Indeed!

In fact, many JD songs could be consider first steps to electronic/dance tunes, as "She's Lost Control", "Isolation" and mainly "As You Said" (I think New Order would have been born virtually in that song).

'Heart and Soul' also shows that the 'NO sound' was already coming through in later JD songs - it has the 'sequenced style' bass synth & the drum-machine like drums from Steve, very similar to 'Chosen Time' in structure actually.

Chronologicaly of course, the first NO songs were DNE, Truth & Homage.

Jamie Fairlie wrote: 'Heart and Soul' also shows that the 'NO sound' was already coming through in later JD songs - it has the 'sequenced style' bass synth & the drum-machine like drums from Steve, very similar to 'Chosen Time' in structure actually.

Chronologicaly of course, the first NO songs were DNE, Truth & Homage.

Cries & Whispers and Procession followed shortly, no?

Aracri wrote:

No Holiday wrote: I think, however, that Everything's Gone Green is in style, feel, and even to an extent singing, the very first listen into the future. It's the first song they used a sequencer, and while it does seem a bit primitive today with how much synths have advanced, it still holds up well sonically.

"EGG" was not made with sequencers. In that point they used to play with an ARP Quadra synth. Oscillators and filters did the synth riffs sounded "broken" or syncopated as sequencers.

I think "Chosen Time" was the first true New Order song... Very modern disco punk drums! Without a doubt, an example of dance-oriented post-punk!

Welllllllllll

The ARP was triggered off the accent-trigger output on the drummachine, so the keys are not sequenced as such. BUT, what's a drum machine when it's at home? Yup a very simple (after all it's trying to emulate a drummer) sequencer.

Still, nothing will ever play as tight as S/V-trig or sync24. MIDI's inherent timing delays are cack. I wonder if NO would have the same legendary timing if they'd learned to play to sloppy MIDI gear instead.

I think it's time I scored a DR55 on Ebay and married it up to the trig in on my moog again (years ago we worked out the accent trigger thing with the Moog and a Dr110, even down to being able to medley EGG and Temptation, I was STUNNED to learn NO had done it the same way with simillar equipment.

JV wrote:

Jamie Fairlie wrote: 'Heart and Soul' also shows that the 'NO sound' was already coming through in later JD songs - it has the 'sequenced style' bass synth & the drum-machine like drums from Steve, very similar to 'Chosen Time' in structure actually.

Chronologicaly of course, the first NO songs were DNE, Truth & Homage.

Cries & Whispers and Procession followed shortly, no?

Yes, from what we know, the order seems to have been:

DNE/Truth/Homage Mesh Cries & Whispers Procession

For me it was Chosen Time, or EGG, whichever came first.

Sub-Cultured wrote: Are we talking about the first New Order style/genre/electronic sound song or the first song that the've written after Ian has died? If its the former, i have to say Isolation. The NO version in 'In Session' is the best version of the song!

Indeed!

Aracri wrote: In fact, many JD songs could be consider first steps to electronic/dance tunes, as "She's Lost Control", "Isolation" and mainly "As You Said" (I think New Order would have been born virtually in that song).

I've also heard a missing link between JD and NO in Isolation and like Sub-Cultured I slightly prefer the NO's 1998 version on the 'In Session' CD than the original - although the technology involved had moved leaps and bounds in that time. Like what everyone else has said EGG and Temptation are IMO the beginning's of a definitive NO sound/identity that emerged later on, on PCL although there are elements of this IMO on Procession, Truth, Dreams Never End and Chosen Time.

Big Black wrote: Just Can't Get Enough

LOL mate, so is that why Hooky wore the leather in 89-93?! Cheers!

INSIGHT by Joy Division!

Indeed!