What a load of pish. Apparently, 'indie' began in 1983 with the advent of The Smiths. Anyone else see this last night?
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7 ages of rock
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Nearly all the indie bands featured were on majors or labels funded by majors! And mentioning Madchester / Manchester with barely a mention of Factory takes the friggin' biscuit. Mind you, I'm not surprised the whole series has been shite, focussing too heavily on an Americanised view of the Brit scene.
Yeah couldn't belive that.Watched it and they mentioned every band and his dog that ever came out of Manc and the Hacienda but not one word about Factory or New Order WTF?
Still , liked the stuff about The Smiths and then on to Stone Roses , Happy Mondays etc.The programme went rapidly downhill when they got on to Blur > Suede > and all that SHITE
No mention at all about Tony Wilson, Factory, Hannet, JD or NO. The programme was seriously flawed. Probably because it focused on guitar indie, when NO were using keyboards and so didnt fall neatly into the defined niche. Apart from that Noel Gallagher gave a good interview.
Absolutely agree,fookin' insulting.So indie rock only started in '83??!! & The Smiths invented it?! & 'dance/rock' was invented by The Stone Roses?!! Did the researcher even fookin' do any?! Now don't get me wrong,I like both bands,but we are definately missing some musical history if that program leads us to believe.& I'm not gonna just spout on about N.O. here,but what about the multitude of other 'indie rock' & 'dance/rock' bands that existed prior to '83 for fooks' sake! 
& The Smiths/Rough Trade union gave rise to complete musical control & integrity did it,as well as designing their own sleeves!! Is this the same musical control & integrity that Factory practically invented? Fook me,I give up sometimes 
Sub-Cultured wrote: 7 Ages of Rock??? Are they:
Plutonic Volcanic Mudrocks Sandstones Gneiss Slate Marble
actually it would go:
Shale Slate Phylite Schist Gniess Migmatite Granite
Shite just been watching that,missed the beginning though.OASIS onwards.Noel was well full of himself.
Rikki Mackenzie wrote: Yeah! What the hell?
I think it ended with Arctic Monkeys too!
Utter bollocks.
So who should it have finished with?
*sigh* the reason why so much of it was dedicated to Oasis was becuase, like it or not, they were the biggest band this country produced since The Beatles. They announce a Stadium tour, its sold out in hours.
I thought it was a bit perplexing that there was no mentioned of New Order or factory, but then again I suppose its Seven Ages of Rock and a lot of people might consider them a dance band. Joy Division may or may not have got a brief mention in the punk edition but i turned off halfway through as it was dull.
You cant really argue with them devoting time to Suede and Blur, especially considering Suede only got five minutes or so. Although Brett Anderson was fucking boring as hell.
I was surprised there was so little Franz to be honest.
For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles.
The whole series has been largely crap. Such a shame that anything that went properly 'in-depth' into examining the British independent music scene from the 1960s onwards would have no 'mass appeal' and therefore never get aired.
Watched it, thought a couple of bits were vaguely interesting - the Smiths live footage, etc. but why spend so much time with egotistic comments from Noel 'twat' Gallagher and Damon 'just as big a twat' Albarn?
No mention of the indie pioneer labels - Stiff/Chiswick being an example as well as Factory of course. And what about the independent distributors? Pinnacle, The Cartel, even the reggae/black music champion, Jetstar? 
Would be good to see a properly researched, presented music programme one day, done as a series and followed by a gig by a 'featured artist' each week. It might make a BBC Three showing, but at least that would be something.
Chris Nash wrote: For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles. .
That's crap. The DIY ethos has never been stronger than it is today. Record a track on your laptop with a ripped copy of Abelton, bang it up on yer Myspace and sign it up to any number of paying download sites for free. Cost = FUCK ALL. No need to borrow that £2K from your indulgent parents to press up 500 snide bits of plastic that no cunt's gonna be interested in anyway.
GlasVegas wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles. .
That's crap. The DIY ethos has never been stronger than it is today. Record a track on your laptop with a ripped copy of Abelton, bang it up on yer Myspace and sign it up to any number of paying download sites for free. Cost = FUCK ALL. No need to borrow that £2K from your indulgent parents to press up 500 snide bits of plastic that no cunt's gonna be interested in anyway.
Sorry, but it was a better challenge in the 'old days'.
BTW, I've still got 498 vinyl copies if anyone's interested?
GlasVegas wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles. .
That's crap. The DIY ethos has never been stronger than it is today. Record a track on your laptop with a ripped copy of Abelton, bang it up on yer Myspace and sign it up to any number of paying download sites for free. Cost = FUCK ALL. No need to borrow that £2K from your indulgent parents to press up 500 snide bits of plastic that no cunt's gonna be interested in anyway.
Oh, you mean with the pc and CD burner that your indulgent parents forked out for? ;) I was talking mainly about the labels, and producing a tangible product, gigging and promoting/distributing, rather than making a 'virtual' product that didn't have a 'label# per se and certainly not knocking the 'DIY Ethos'. And how old are you? 2K for pressing a single? £200 more like and when you borrowed it, you paid it back. Most of the bands I know sold all of their first pressings anyway.
enjoyed what it covered but it missed so much more - whatabout the nw! (echo, hmhb, etc) and in my youth bloody deepish were always number 1 in the indie chart
Chris Nash wrote:
GlasVegas wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles. .
That's crap. The DIY ethos has never been stronger than it is today. Record a track on your laptop with a ripped copy of Abelton, bang it up on yer Myspace and sign it up to any number of paying download sites for free. Cost = FUCK ALL. No need to borrow that £2K from your indulgent parents to press up 500 snide bits of plastic that no cunt's gonna be interested in anyway.
Oh, you mean with the pc and CD burner that your indulgent parents forked out for? ;) I was talking mainly about the labels, and producing a tangible product, gigging and promoting/distributing, rather than making a 'virtual' product that didn't have a 'label# per se and certainly not knocking the 'DIY Ethos'. And how old are you? 2K for pressing a single? £200 more like and when you borrowed it, you paid it back. Most of the bands I know sold all of their first pressings anyway.
Since when did a downloaded piece of music stop being "tangible"? Music is "tangible" regardless of the format it's delivered to your ears in.
And so what if it's not on a label? Who gives a shit? As long as it's good music I'm not particularly bothered whose logo appears on the sleeve or for that matter whether there is or isn't a sleeve in the first place!
And all the folk who bought your 200 records were people called your "friends". The same people who filled out your local gigs as well. They did it out of obligation, not cos they really wanted your dodgy 7 inch with the Letraset cover. 
While I watched it last night, I realised it was just a complete rehash of this film done 4 years ago just with added Libertines, Kaisers and Franz..
"Brit-Pop" was a media driven movement and "Indie" should represent all types of independently released music from dance to rock
GlasVegas wrote:
Chris Nash wrote:
GlasVegas wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: For me, 'real' indie labels died around the same time as Factory. There were SO many true indie bands that could have been mentioned. Those who set up their own labels, those who spent hours in their bedrooms gluing record sleeves together (yes, RECORD sleeves) or who borrowed money from their parents to press their first 500 singles. .
That's crap. The DIY ethos has never been stronger than it is today. Record a track on your laptop with a ripped copy of Abelton, bang it up on yer Myspace and sign it up to any number of paying download sites for free. Cost = FUCK ALL. No need to borrow that £2K from your indulgent parents to press up 500 snide bits of plastic that no cunt's gonna be interested in anyway.
Oh, you mean with the pc and CD burner that your indulgent parents forked out for? ;) I was talking mainly about the labels, and producing a tangible product, gigging and promoting/distributing, rather than making a 'virtual' product that didn't have a 'label# per se and certainly not knocking the 'DIY Ethos'. And how old are you? 2K for pressing a single? £200 more like and when you borrowed it, you paid it back. Most of the bands I know sold all of their first pressings anyway.
Since when did a downloaded piece of music stop being "tangible"? Music is "tangible" regardless of the format it's delivered to your ears in.
And so what if it's not on a label? Who gives a shit? As long as it's good music I'm not particularly bothered whose logo appears on the sleeve or for that matter whether there is or isn't a sleeve in the first place!
And all the folk who bought your 200 records were people called your "friends". The same people who filled out your local gigs as well. They did it out of obligation, not cos they really wanted your dodgy 7 inch with the Letraset cover.
tan·gi·ble /ˈtændʒəbəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tan-juh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective
- capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial.
- real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
- definite; not vague or elusive: no tangible grounds for suspicion.
- (of an asset) having actual physical existence, as real estate or chattels, and therefore capable of being assigned a value in monetary terms. –noun
- something tangible, esp. a tangible asset. [Origin: 1580–90; < LL tangibilis, equiv. to L tang(ere) to touch + -ibilis -ible]
People who bought our first 500 singles bought them at gigs when we were on tour or by mail order.
Oh, and we never used 'Letraset' 
Anyway, I was only commenting on the TV programme, not trying to start an argument. Maybe let this one lie...?
Chris,
From your very own dictionary definition...
2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
Tangible means something of substance that exists and that can be proven to exist. As long as it can be pereceived by the senses it's tangible. Hence, music is "tangible".
GlasVegas wrote: Chris,
From your very own dictionary definition...
2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
Tangible means something of substance that exists and that can be proven to exist. As long as it can be pereceived by the senses it's tangible. Hence, music is "tangible".
Guys guys. lets draw a line under this. PPPPPPPPLEASE.
after 6 great episodes , they blew it with the last one
no mention of Factory (the indie label surely) no mention of new order or joy division . 2 mentions of the Hac doesn't cut it for me really . very poor .
I noticed from the first program it was co-produced by VH-1 so I was a bit spectical , but as I say the first 6 were great , informative and had some great archive footage .
Britpop was marketed "cool" anyway , the trendies and bandwaggoners jumped on board . Interetingly the program did touch on this with the cringe worthy Jamie Oliver CD advert .
I think the problem lies with the fact that once upon a time (pre smiths) 'Alternative' bands couldn't get a deal with a major record label and thus went to smaller independant labels to put out their material. This meant that they never got in the charts as the label couldn't afford to send their button men around the shops buying up loads of copies to rig the charts.
So 'indie' became a label (sorry) for bands that were alternative and the two terms were used interchangeably.
If they had called their 7th age "Alternative" in the program instead of "Indie" then a lot the hot air above in this thread would go away.
I actually thought the program was pretty good despite the fact that:
I wouldn't consider Oasis and Blur Alternative/Indie Oasis = rock. Blur = Pop. I always thought Suede were aimed at teens No mention of Joy Division/NewOrder/MAnic Street Preachers/Radiohead.
(Joy Division/NO weren't mentioned in the punk age either)
The whole series has been contemptibly bad. Anybody with a shift-working minimum wage job who loves music ( as I assume we do here...) could cobble together a better set of films. How the BBC gave 90 minutes ( 30 longer than the other 6 ages of Rock...why?) to Noel Gallagher pontificating, rentagob Mani ( Squire and Brown didn't want to appear in it) and Albarn admitting he cashed in on Madchester (he's an ARTIST darling!) is beyond me. Why no mention of "Be Here Now"? Coke psychosis bad album. And another thing. Some new Rhyming Slang: "He's a real Stuart" Staurt Maconie = Phoney. Professional Northerner (tm) .Just f**k off. Who doesnt like the Smiths. I bet his mum never even let him goto the Hacienda. Idea for new TV program "Maconie's False Memory Syndrome" ,where Shuvell from M-People and Kate Thornton reminisce about things they have no knowledge of. I feel better now...
