Wealth of rarities to populate any New Order box sets

Hook: New Order Archival Projects On Hold

November 15, 2007, 2:00 PM ET Gary Graff, Detroit

With Joy Division successfully memorialized on CD and the big screen, bassist Peter Hook would like to see the same done for its successor, New Order. But, he says, there are issues.

"Since New Order has split up, we ... aren't really friends yet," says Hook. Therefore, plans for a New Order box set and expanded reissues -- similar to Rhino's recent treatment of Joy Division's three initial Factory releases -- are on hold. "Because of our relationship," Hook notes, "we're struggling to find a way of moving it forward. Everybody is busy doing their next project."

Hook says there's a wealth of rarities to populate any New Order sets -- particularly a large passel of live recordings that includes the fledgling group's very first concert in 1980. Also around is a selection of songs left over from sessions for New Order's final album, 2005's "Waiting for the Sirens' Call."

"We had seven or eight tracks left over," Hook recalls. "Our idea was to bring them out very quickly after 'Sirens," but because we fell out and weren't enjoying working together, that idea was just pushed further and further back. Those tracks are still there, still unfinished. And they're as good as 'Sirens,' funnily enough."

Hook says Bernard Sumner is particularly resistant to moving forward on any archival projects. "Bernard sort of dislikes the past; he's quite open about that. And he dislikes our live past even more," Hook explains. "It's quite sad, really. As I've gotten older, I think there's a lot more value to your history being judged."

Hook isn't just living in the past, however. He's moving forward with Freebass, his bass guitar-celebrating group with Smiths alumnus Andy Rourke and Stone Roses/Primal Scream vet Gary "Mani" Mounfield. The group has recently cut tracks with the Charlatans' Tim Burgess and rapper Howard Marx and is putting together a schedule for 2008 summer European festivals.

"It's really coming on and we're very, very pleased," Hook says. "As nice as looking back is, musicians of my ilk are really interested in looking forward. I feel very positive about Freebass right now."

Hook: New Order Archival Projects on Hold

Interesting reading - ta for that

Maybe some day we'll see boxsets/reissues...

This is very interesting. Especially given that New Order have a lot more material than JD and are in my opinion the superior band.

Its a real shame that New Order didn't release that album of Sirens leftovers.....would have been a perfect vehicle for the final tour that they did.

I am still hoping that in a few years the boys might get back together for a new album. Its not impossible. I would buy re issues of all of New Orders albums if they had good extras. And I would buy another New Order boxed set if it was done correctly and with love (the opposite of Retro, which was sloppy).

However, I'd gladly buy reissues of all of the New Order albums if they had god extras. And I would buy another New Order boxed set if it was done correctly and with love (the opposite of Retro, which was sloppy).

IF THE extras are THAT good I'VE FOUND JESUS. Ahmen

Twentieth anniversary special edition of Technique in 2009 should surely be pencilled in.

Andrew wrote: Twentieth anniversary special edition of Technique in 2009 should surely be pencilled in.

Expect the 25th anniversary edition of WFSTC in 2030 with those 7 leftovers. :(

If this happens, I prefer the bonus material be unreleased songs, out-takes, etc over live tracks.

Technique (Deluxe Edition) especially sounds tasty to me.

What does Bernard like...

There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

oldmonkey wrote: There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

Felt Forum? Just a couple of expletives along the way.

Any from the May 81 tour I would guess would be up to scratch, some of the clearest recordings ever (cheers Duncan!).

It's not so clear for a live CD to accompany PC&L as the gear they were using live was so unreliable, and the potty mouth had begun to surface. Probably one of the US 83 or the Hacienda July 83.

For Low Life, it would probably have to be one of the US August 85 shows, Felt Forum is a good suggestion as you say. Maybe Sydney as an outsider, or Brisbane.

For Brotherhood it could be something like Edinburgh 86 for the songs played if not the ambience of the event, or maybe one of the US shows if the soundboards are up to scratch.

For Technique, there are a wealth of US 89 shows where the paying is tight and there isn't much potty mouth on show.

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

oldmonkey wrote:

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

The John Peel show (Jan 2006) would be good to have as a bonus CD. Or those 98 shows at the Apollo or Alexandra Palace.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

The John Peel show (Jan 2006) would be good to have as a bonus CD. Or those 98 shows at the Apollo or Alexandra Palace.

Somehow I don't think poorly-performed versions of 6 Joy Division songs is quite what they have in mind for live CDs to accompany remastered New Order albums!

Spotnick wrote: Maybe *we* should start the project and decide what could be included on a bonus disc for each CD and submit that project to the people in charge lol.

Nothing to waste, and it could be fun.

And who knows....

Go on then, set the ball rolling. Why don't we invite suggestions for live shows that are representative of each album, provide sound quality clips, then poll it to see which ones get the nod from the NOOL jury. I can provide the source if you can provide the bandwidth. We'd need some stringent quality control measures though to even get it past first base if we were to seriously want to suggest this to the powers that be:

* no potty mouth outbursts (funny though they are, they won't get released and Bernard would instantly put up the barriers, probably to the whole project) * no really awful performances (or even average one, it'll have to be great renditions only) * no shoddy sound (the best quality only, either soundboard or audience)

Getting difficult already!

oldmonkey wrote: There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

But isn't the potty mouth one of the features that made New Order great - that total fuck-you (quite literally) attitude combined with sublime tunes, fantastic packaging and sometimes chaotic live performances.

Bernard fucking Sumner wants to get over himself sometimes - a slightly less than brilliant live performance released as part of a special edition CD doesn't reflect on NO being shit or Sumner a less than than amazing producer or musician.

I want a true record a unique band with a unique attitude to the music industry - that's such a massive part of what made them brilliant.

Absolutely, but BS has the ultimate say in everything to do with NO, so it seems, and given his hatred of the past and in particular NO's live past, there's no way on this earth he will consent to anything that shows him up for the gobshite he actually is!

once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

Since NO and JD are basically the same group, why the hell can't they do the same with NO's back catalogue as they did with JD's? Is it just a question of Mr Sumner being NO's but not JD's frontman?

The similarities between BS and Kraftwerk's Ralf Hutter are starting to grow.

Minimal output, control freakery, and minimal contact with the press.

If there was one band out there crying out for the deluxe packaging with rarities back catalogue treatment - it's this group of cluless fuckos - do they not have an agent/manager letting them know that their main demographic is a heavenly blend of £50 man and irrational anal fanatic?

The live discs don't necessarily have to be one performance, do they? It could be a bit like Les Bains Douches with Paradiso.

When did Bernard start hating the past? Was it post-Brotherhood/Substance? After Technique?

I think, from reading the biography, there's a sense that he has always hated the past, in whichever form it comes. The media problems he encountered in 1986 with Smash Hits weren't entirely to blame.

There is no question that Bernard's singing has improved over the years, I guess it is quite difficult for him to look back fondly on those live performances when he's singing the wrong tune, changing key mid verse etc

I blame it on the Pernod

Ben wrote: Since NO and JD are basically the same group, why the hell can't they do the same with NO's back catalogue as they did with JD's? Is it just a question of Mr Sumner being NO's but not JD's frontman?

Probably started before the recent split (Joy Division remasters)...

How much of an issue is this 'potty mouth', really?

Couldn't any truly offensive/libellous banter and subbed lyrics simply be dubbed out? Surely the band's sales demographic can cope with the rest.

I'd prefer superior quality performances with the odd dub over inferior, cleaner shows.

:\pimp3:

I couldn't agree more! Hooky just needs to disappear for a long, long time into his shite excuse for a DJ or some other half assed side project.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous "heavy metal guitarist" stance he seems to get more and more into with each passing year. Pretty soon he'll be playing on his back or behind his overstuffed head.

BillONdollar wrote: once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

I really want the rarities to be released.

Spotty, what about the rarities you relased through your podcasts?

Spencer Packer wrote: I couldn't agree more! Hooky just needs to disappear for a long, long time into his shite excuse for a DJ or some other half assed side project.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous "heavy metal guitarist" stance he seems to get more and more into with each passing year. Pretty soon he'll be playing on his back or behind his overstuffed head.

BillONdollar wrote: once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

Peter Hook is not the problem here.

I wouldn't want to get my hopes up on this.... have a feeling it would be a bunch of remixes that aren't worth crap (viva Rest of, Retro).... more package and repackaging the same material... with a couple nice nuggets, but not nearly worth the ticket of already released material... I love NO, but the package and repackaging of crap does get a bit old...

pumped full of drugs wrote: Peter Hook is not the problem here.

Says who? The New Order I love had a bass player who played with his back to the audience whilst nailed to the floor. Occasionally some gnomic utterance from the band would surface in the press then you didn't hear from them again for some time. These days it's rent-a-quote every other day - probably to keep those DJ fees and pension plan topped up (deserved so).

I don't think anyone's to 'blame' but it's a bit like being sat in the pub with a mate who's been dumped and can only talk about what a bastard the ex is while you just want to watch the football!

Anyway, can I have Hull Tower(1982)released please - not a word from Hook on it! in fact no-one on stage for the last 15 minutes!

BillONdollar wrote: once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

Here Here! well said 10/10

Al, buy that quote for a dollar

Nick King wrote:

Ben wrote: Since NO and JD are basically the same group, why the hell can't they do the same with NO's back catalogue as they did with JD's? Is it just a question of Mr Sumner being NO's but not JD's frontman?

Probably started before the recent split (Joy Division remasters)...

This would mean that the project was started before WFTSC was released, as Hooky says that the crisis started then... If it really takes sooo long to release remasters, it's our children and not us who'll enjoy NO's remasters.

How about go on with their original "Recycle" project? The project that was shelved by London Records that would feature all the singles New Order had released, one single per CD, in a grand 20 CD box.

Indeed*!*

I think that Peter Hook seems like a really nice guy.

BillONdollar wrote: once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

BRILLIANT

FDISK wrote: I don't think anyone's to 'blame' but it's a bit like being sat in the pub with a mate who's been dumped and can only talk about what a bastard the ex is while you just want to watch the football!

"My son tells me ive been getting stick on N.O.online again, im gonna hire a boxing ring dickheads and you can come down and put your gloves on, were all tough behind the keyboards aren't we?

It makes me laugh tho these interviews come courtesy of the n.o. press office, I beg not to do them, because unimaginative journalists always take the easy way out don't they? But then again you wouldn't have anything to moan at then would you!"

Quality - I'd go to that!

El Jarvo wrote: Where on earth's that from?!

Hooky's Myspace blog - quality!

Nick King wrote: "My son tells me ive been getting stick on N.O.online again, im gonna hire a boxing ring dickheads and you can come down and put your gloves on, were all tough behind the keyboards aren't we?

It makes me laugh tho these interviews come courtesy of the n.o. press office, I beg not to do them, because unimaginative journalists always take the easy way out don't they? But then again you wouldn't have anything to moan at then would you!"

Quality - I'd go to that!

I'll take Hooky's challenge. I don't think it'll be too difficult to land a punch on that enormous, ego-inflated head.

El Jarvo wrote:

Spencer Packer wrote: I'll take Hooky's challenge. I don't think it'll be too difficult to land a punch on that enormous, ego-inflated head.

Viking boxing! It's been mentioned here before! We could pair everyone off to settle their differences man-to-man!

Bare knuckle though, natch.

This has enormous potential.You could ham it up with the names and everything...I can see it now,that yank who wants it with Hooky,to get the keyboard warrior championships off to a flyer.... Spencer 'punch' Packer vs Pete 'big left'Hook..Winner stays on.It could go on the rarities as dvd and everything!

Outrageously cheeky billings for the upcoming Panto season... Suggested themed bouts could include... Spencer'The Fudge'Packer v Peter 'Oh yes he is' Hook. Anymore for any more?

What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

The words of wisdom!

Right, that's the last time I go to the darts in Wolverhampton for a few days without tinterweb access! (hope you all saw the Vikings/FAC 383 180 cards appearing on TV several times, my ugly mug was certainly on often enough holding them!).

From memory, the esteemed bass-wielder was rather tasty with the paws as a youth, so I hope the keyboard warriors out there in septic land will be attending DJ sets when he's next over there, and introducing themselves!

Just how and why did this thread descend from people being optimistic about getting some new or old material into another round of line and sinker?

oldmonkey wrote: Just how and why did this thread descend from people being optimistic about getting some new or old material into another round of line and sinker?

Quite!

oldmonkey wrote:

From memory, the esteemed bass-wielder was rather tasty with the paws as a youth, so I hope the keyboard warriors out there in septic land will be attending DJ sets when he's next over there, and introducing themselves!

are we saying that the keyboard warriors are primarily americans?

The two guys who started it off on that thread were, other joined in, sure, but first offence is where the yardstick will be. Not like it isn't their first time with similar such posts, either.

It would be great to hear demo versions of songs from when they were works in progress,i.e. The Perfect Kiss.

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

BillONdollar wrote:

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

Do us all a favour pal and shut the fuck up. You started this latest episode with your anti-Hooky rant, about what could and should be good news of something for the future. Nothing positive to say? The door's over there, if you can find your own way.

Whole thing is absurd and pathetic,is'nt it? Hooky should,and likely would be able to shrug off a load of gobshite from a website,even though understandably,he won't like it..Who would like it? However,you feel the source where Hooky got his information from,i.e. his son,Jack,alters everything...I dare say if my son said to me "so an so said this about you" it would nark me far more aswell.Coming from a loved one,then it fuckin matters...That's just how we are,most of us.You get sucked in when you think something bothers yer son,mother,father,granny etc..Pathetic offering people out online tho..

Boatraceface wrote: Whole thing is absurd and pathetic,is'nt it? Hooky should,and likely would be able to shrug off a load of gobshite from a website,even though understandably,he won't like it..Who would like it? However,you feel the source where Hooky got his information from,i.e. his son,Jack,alters everything...I dare say if my son said to me "so an so said this about you" it would nark me far more aswell.Coming from a loved one,then it fuckin matters...That's just how we are,most of us.You get sucked in when you think something bothers yer son,mother,father,granny etc..Pathetic offering people out online tho..

You're right! Let's ban that Jack twat so's he can't tell his dad nothin!

oldmonkey wrote:

BillONdollar wrote:

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

Do us all a favour pal and shut the fuck up. You started this latest episode with your anti-Hooky rant, about what could and should be good news of something for the future. Nothing positive to say? The door's over there, if you can find your own way.

you shut the FUCK UP asswipe! you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! this isn't about you, you 2digit iq.

if you haven't got anything nice to say, get loooooooooooost!

BillONdollar wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

BillONdollar wrote:

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

Do us all a favour pal and shut the fuck up. You started this latest episode with your anti-Hooky rant, about what could and should be good news of something for the future. Nothing positive to say? The door's over there, if you can find your own way.

you shut the FUCK UP asswipe! you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! this isn't about you, you 2digit iq.

if you haven't got anything nice to say, get loooooooooooost!

Awww...that was adorable. Go on, say another!

BillONdollar wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

BillONdollar wrote:

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

Do us all a favour pal and shut the fuck up. You started this latest episode with your anti-Hooky rant, about what could and should be good news of something for the future. Nothing positive to say? The door's over there, if you can find your own way.

you shut the FUCK UP asswipe! you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! this isn't about you, you 2digit iq.

if you haven't got anything nice to say, get loooooooooooost!

Think we've got our first bout of the night in Hookys hired boxing ring..

BillONdollar wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

BillONdollar wrote:

MONTY wrote: What the fuck? Not been on for a fucking week,and everyone's back to HOOKY-bashing. Funny,I thought he wanted to do what most fans wanted...to release a decent box-set.What's wrong with telling it like it is."We're still not getting on at moment" .Not exactly fuelling the fire is it?

Speaking of which,RETRO got by with the expletive uttered by Mr Wise!

what in the world are you talking about? just facts. how can you release a "descent box-set" when you can't even get along with your band members? The last time i checked, NEW ORDER was a band, not a solo act; it takes 4, (or five including gillian), not 1 (b)ass!

ask this yourself? who's bashing hooky? all "we" are saying here is, give it a rest, and let time heals!

Do us all a favour pal and shut the fuck up. You started this latest episode with your anti-Hooky rant, about what could and should be good news of something for the future. Nothing positive to say? The door's over there, if you can find your own way.

you shut the FUCK UP asswipe! you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! this isn't about you, you 2digit iq.

if you haven't got anything nice to say, get loooooooooooost!

Oh dear......

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Boatraceface wrote: Whole thing is absurd and pathetic,is'nt it? Hooky should,and likely would be able to shrug off a load of gobshite from a website,even though understandably,he won't like it..Who would like it? However,you feel the source where Hooky got his information from,i.e. his son,Jack,alters everything...I dare say if my son said to me "so an so said this about you" it would nark me far more aswell.Coming from a loved one,then it fuckin matters...That's just how we are,most of us.You get sucked in when you think something bothers yer son,mother,father,granny etc..Pathetic offering people out online tho..

You're right! Let's ban that Jack twat so's he can't tell his dad nothin!

Well,to be fair,by the same the same token from a human aspect you can see how some comments about his old fella might wind Jack up..It's only natural he'd want to defend Hooky.Can't say I'd be any different,and that's to be applauded in my book..Not much wisdom in telling Hooky all about it though,when ultimately,non of it really matters.Probably hard to be objective in Jack's shoes.

Spencer Packer wrote: I couldn't agree more! Hooky just needs to disappear for a long, long time into his shite excuse for a DJ or some other half assed side project.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous "heavy metal guitarist" stance he seems to get more and more into with each passing year. Pretty soon he'll be playing on his back or behind his overstuffed head.

Even more BRILLIANT! Watch the 'Academy' vid, you'd think he was the fucking star and the others were his support act.

FDISK wrote:

pumped full of drugs wrote: Peter Hook is not the problem here.

Says who? The New Order I love had a bass player who played with his back to the audience whilst nailed to the floor. Occasionally some gnomic utterance from the band would surface in the press then you didn't hear from them again for some time. These days it's rent-a-quote every other day - probably to keep those DJ fees and pension plan topped up (deserved so).

Interesting point that. Put a page of 'An Ideal For Living' next to a page of hookysblogg. What do you prefer?

El Jarvo wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Even more BRILLIANT! Watch the 'Academy' vid, you'd think he was the fucking star and the others were his support act.

Truth is though, Hooky probably was the star of New Order during that period.

Barney had his moments, but Hooky was the one you wanted to go and watch play live.

Curious about this from the live fan perspective. During what period was Barney the 'star' in the 80s, and when and why did it switch back and forth between Hooky and Barney?

Everybody went to the gigs not just for the music and for the live experience, but for that little bit of tension, that veiled threat of it all kicking off, which it so often did, and there was always more chance of that happening on Hooky's side of the stage as he baited the crowd. Hooky was always the showman, even with his back to the audience (and that had virtually stopped by 1984 or so anyway). Barney was always the nerd at the front, a shy figure who would occasionally say something funny, usually something rude that you couldn't decipher down the front, he was the frontman but wasn't, if that makes sense. We know now that Bernard was the leader, but to anyone watching a show then, it would have seemed that Hooky was the boss man, and what he said went.

Go! GO!

Fight! FIGHT!

I want to see some blood on the monitor.

Indeed*!*

old monkey wrote "hooky was the bossman."

bass king may have had a bit more to say from time to time ,though i never felt his presence overwhelmed bernard and it was always clear from the early days that bernard was a focul point , partly due to his er,, "singing " and concerns expressed or what daft thing would he do next,, like fall over onstage pissed at glastonbury81,/

berneee,, gis us a polo.

The Sub-Cultured Perfect Kisser*!* wrote:

Go! GO!

Fight! FIGHT!

I want to see some blood on the monitor.

Indeed*!*

well you'll be fucked if there is any, as all your nurses are over here!

It would be good to see these projects confirmed before they are announced!

I really wish Hooky would talk to Barney behind closed doors rather than having pops at him in public!

El Jarvo wrote:

JV wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Even more BRILLIANT! Watch the 'Academy' vid, you'd think he was the fucking star and the others were his support act.

Truth is though, Hooky probably was the star of New Order during that period.

Barney had his moments, but Hooky was the one you wanted to go and watch play live.

Curious about this from the live fan perspective. During what period was Barney the 'star' in the 80s, and when and why did it switch back and forth between Hooky and Barney?

Was Barney ever the star? To be totally fair, I thought they all had equal billing, so was surprised that Michael's made his comment about the Academy performance. I never really saw it like that but I think you'll find, visually, Hooky was the best to watch though. Personally, I always thought he was. And I'm sure most people here would've gravitated to 'Hooky's side of the stage' for gigs.

Looks like I've misexpressed meself again. My point about Hooky live (typified by Academy) was that he had this big look-at-me-I'm-fucking-great stance and while loadsa people loved him hamming it up it used to get on my proverbial tits.

I'm with Mr Monkhouse on this. Hooky the Ham I never liked to see at gigs really... Mind you I was happier staring at the back of the Sequential Circuits Prophet 5- I didn't want to look at any of em really...

Stars? New Order Thought it was all the antithesis of that rock star shit, no? ie no encores, very few interviews, let the music speak for itself, art for arts sake etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08_2eTj3wsA

cranelane wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08_2eTj3wsA

Yes, that's the Radiohead cover of Ceremony - what's it doing in this thread?

all the lost full versions like avalance

A dvd bringing together all the various live T.V performances would be welcome...

Just like that shower of a national football team we have, I've lost all faith in this band producing anything worthwhile or coherent ever again.

Egos, bad to non existent management, half-baked ideas, and piss-poor products (Retro, Singles, video-standard NeworderStory DVD, no commercial release for Buttrich remix of EGG).

Surely it's only a matter of time before LTM picks up management of the back catalogue and does it justice.

GreenBlueGrey wrote: I really wish Hooky would talk to Barney behind closed doors rather than having pops at him in public!

Agreed; I think Hooky's made a complete idiot out of himself lately by publicly slating the rest of the band. IMHO, that's one of the most unprofessional things you can do. Grow up, Mr Hook!

Emile Strunz wrote:

Surely it's only a matter of time before LTM picks up management of the back catalogue and does it justice.

And THAT would be real good news

Indeed, LTM have done a great job with not just the Factory back catalogue...

Snorri xxx

Miss Disco wrote:

GreenBlueGrey wrote: I really wish Hooky would talk to Barney behind closed doors rather than having pops at him in public!

Agreed; I think Hooky's made a complete idiot out of himself lately by publicly slating the rest of the band. IMHO, that's one of the most unprofessional things you can do. Grow up, Mr Hook!

Absolutely. It's pretty sad when a band of their repute do fuck all all year except 3 pisspoor instrumentals, mouthing each other off and going on about what they were doing 30 years ago.

Oh FFS!

Back on topic!

I would welcome ANY NO Re-issues that included PROPER rarities,or a boxset for that matter,providing it is done a lot better than Retro,AND FFS not a white cover,cannae keep the fookers clean!

Perhaps the band should release any rareities to us lot on here the, true fans who come on here day after day,week after week talking bollocks!

As for the Hooky and Barney thing No comment!

twp wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

Surely it's only a matter of time before LTM picks up management of the back catalogue and does it justice.

And THAT would be real good news

Unfortunately, it'll never happen. New Order signed away their rights to the backcatalogue to London. And I don't see London/Warners ever selling to anyone.

The sad truth is that there's no commitment from Warners to release anything worthwhile, no desire from Barney, and Hooky's willing, but legally unable to release anything.

I don't see how other bands can release limited/fan/website bespoke goodies, and New Order won't.

This desire from the fans won't last forever, we'll move on and stop caring. Sad but true.

As I've stated before, we're the perfect demographic - comfortably wedged, passionate, and anally retentive. But I'll just go and spend my money elsewhere.

On coke and prozzers...

The really sad truth is that the next 'box set' will probably be no more than straight reissues of the original albums with no extras and a sub saville design. Witness the latest radiohead 7cd box set and the pink floyd 16 cd box set (£150 for god's sake)not that I'm recommending either.

Hooky I know when you put things on hold and not friends with the band members you will get the blame for it:( continue on your Free Bass it's safer Missy Hooky kicks ass

Ahh, err, grr, so what's your MOOD pissy, I mean Missy?:D

Indeed!

You all need to get over yourselves, and remember who put you where you are...US..the fans..the ones still buying your albums 20 years on..the one's still turning up the radio when a station plays an old JD or NO track...and introducing you guys to our kids and our younger co-workers. A New New Order album would be to breathe again for us, I'm so p'ssed about your public comments about each other I had to join up post..

Craig Brown wrote: You all need to get over yourselves, and remember who put you where you are...US..the fans..the ones still buying your albums 20 years on..the one's still turning up the radio when a station plays an old JD or NO track...and introducing you guys to our kids and our younger co-workers. A New New Order album would be to breathe again for us, I'm so p'ssed about your public comments about each other I had to join up post..

Who are you talking to?

They aint reading.

Oh, and thanks for swarving this threaad up again.

It would be good if there were some remastered NO albums with bonus discs, but can't see it happening just yet. The live disc of Retro was probably as good as we'll get. Schade dass.

at the end of the day if they put nothing out I'll buy something else.

"Retro" was an appalling and careless open goal. See, if the whole set had been similar to the 5th disc (which they threw together quickly after a tidal wave of pissing and moaning by the people who bought the records), it could've been truly worthy of release. Instead it was 2 discs of stuff most people have, a third remix disc (half if which was on Substance), and a fourth one of poorly sequenced tosh.

I made my own Retro : 1 : Singles in chronological order, using alternate versions/mixes/Peel Sessions where possible 2 : Bsides 1989-02 + Soundtrack songs 3 : 12" Remixes from the 1987-02 period that havent been on any album 4 : Live compilation from Reading 93, Reading 98, Liverpool 01, and London 02 (so it doesnt sound like a pisspoor compilation tape made by a deaf man)

As for reissues, a decent quality live set from each era, the 'missing' tracks from the singles and compilations, and unreleased demo versions would be exemplary.

Failing that, a DVD release of PFOD/Academy/Montreux wouldn't hurt.