Wealth of rarities to populate any New Order box sets

Hook: New Order Archival Projects On Hold

November 15, 2007, 2:00 PM ET Gary Graff, Detroit

With Joy Division successfully memorialized on CD and the big screen, bassist Peter Hook would like to see the same done for its successor, New Order. But, he says, there are issues.

"Since New Order has split up, we ... aren't really friends yet," says Hook. Therefore, plans for a New Order box set and expanded reissues -- similar to Rhino's recent treatment of Joy Division's three initial Factory releases -- are on hold. "Because of our relationship," Hook notes, "we're struggling to find a way of moving it forward. Everybody is busy doing their next project."

Hook says there's a wealth of rarities to populate any New Order sets -- particularly a large passel of live recordings that includes the fledgling group's very first concert in 1980. Also around is a selection of songs left over from sessions for New Order's final album, 2005's "Waiting for the Sirens' Call."

"We had seven or eight tracks left over," Hook recalls. "Our idea was to bring them out very quickly after 'Sirens," but because we fell out and weren't enjoying working together, that idea was just pushed further and further back. Those tracks are still there, still unfinished. And they're as good as 'Sirens,' funnily enough."

Hook says Bernard Sumner is particularly resistant to moving forward on any archival projects. "Bernard sort of dislikes the past; he's quite open about that. And he dislikes our live past even more," Hook explains. "It's quite sad, really. As I've gotten older, I think there's a lot more value to your history being judged."

Hook isn't just living in the past, however. He's moving forward with Freebass, his bass guitar-celebrating group with Smiths alumnus Andy Rourke and Stone Roses/Primal Scream vet Gary "Mani" Mounfield. The group has recently cut tracks with the Charlatans' Tim Burgess and rapper Howard Marx and is putting together a schedule for 2008 summer European festivals.

"It's really coming on and we're very, very pleased," Hook says. "As nice as looking back is, musicians of my ilk are really interested in looking forward. I feel very positive about Freebass right now."

Hook: New Order Archival Projects on Hold

Interesting reading - ta for that

Maybe some day we'll see boxsets/reissues...

This is very interesting. Especially given that New Order have a lot more material than JD and are in my opinion the superior band.

Its a real shame that New Order didn't release that album of Sirens leftovers.....would have been a perfect vehicle for the final tour that they did.

I am still hoping that in a few years the boys might get back together for a new album. Its not impossible. I would buy re issues of all of New Orders albums if they had good extras. And I would buy another New Order boxed set if it was done correctly and with love (the opposite of Retro, which was sloppy).

However, I'd gladly buy reissues of all of the New Order albums if they had god extras. And I would buy another New Order boxed set if it was done correctly and with love (the opposite of Retro, which was sloppy).

IF THE extras are THAT good I'VE FOUND JESUS. Ahmen

Twentieth anniversary special edition of Technique in 2009 should surely be pencilled in.

Andrew wrote: Twentieth anniversary special edition of Technique in 2009 should surely be pencilled in.

Expect the 25th anniversary edition of WFSTC in 2030 with those 7 leftovers. :(

If this happens, I prefer the bonus material be unreleased songs, out-takes, etc over live tracks.

Technique (Deluxe Edition) especially sounds tasty to me.

What does Bernard like...

There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

oldmonkey wrote: There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

Felt Forum? Just a couple of expletives along the way.

Any from the May 81 tour I would guess would be up to scratch, some of the clearest recordings ever (cheers Duncan!).

It's not so clear for a live CD to accompany PC&L as the gear they were using live was so unreliable, and the potty mouth had begun to surface. Probably one of the US 83 or the Hacienda July 83.

For Low Life, it would probably have to be one of the US August 85 shows, Felt Forum is a good suggestion as you say. Maybe Sydney as an outsider, or Brisbane.

For Brotherhood it could be something like Edinburgh 86 for the songs played if not the ambience of the event, or maybe one of the US shows if the soundboards are up to scratch.

For Technique, there are a wealth of US 89 shows where the paying is tight and there isn't much potty mouth on show.

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

oldmonkey wrote:

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

The John Peel show (Jan 2006) would be good to have as a bonus CD. Or those 98 shows at the Apollo or Alexandra Palace.

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oldmonkey wrote:

Don't even want to think about Get Ready and WFTSC as remasters with live CDs just yet!

The John Peel show (Jan 2006) would be good to have as a bonus CD. Or those 98 shows at the Apollo or Alexandra Palace.

Somehow I don't think poorly-performed versions of 6 Joy Division songs is quite what they have in mind for live CDs to accompany remastered New Order albums!

Spotnick wrote: Maybe *we* should start the project and decide what could be included on a bonus disc for each CD and submit that project to the people in charge lol.

Nothing to waste, and it could be fun.

And who knows....

Go on then, set the ball rolling. Why don't we invite suggestions for live shows that are representative of each album, provide sound quality clips, then poll it to see which ones get the nod from the NOOL jury. I can provide the source if you can provide the bandwidth. We'd need some stringent quality control measures though to even get it past first base if we were to seriously want to suggest this to the powers that be:

* no potty mouth outbursts (funny though they are, they won't get released and Bernard would instantly put up the barriers, probably to the whole project) * no really awful performances (or even average one, it'll have to be great renditions only) * no shoddy sound (the best quality only, either soundboard or audience)

Getting difficult already!

oldmonkey wrote: There are some gigs out there where Bernard hasn't had an outbreak of potty-mouth, where the playing has been tight and the recording and performance both good, but not that many, I'm struggling to think of some now!

But isn't the potty mouth one of the features that made New Order great - that total fuck-you (quite literally) attitude combined with sublime tunes, fantastic packaging and sometimes chaotic live performances.

Bernard fucking Sumner wants to get over himself sometimes - a slightly less than brilliant live performance released as part of a special edition CD doesn't reflect on NO being shit or Sumner a less than than amazing producer or musician.

I want a true record a unique band with a unique attitude to the music industry - that's such a massive part of what made them brilliant.

Absolutely, but BS has the ultimate say in everything to do with NO, so it seems, and given his hatred of the past and in particular NO's live past, there's no way on this earth he will consent to anything that shows him up for the gobshite he actually is!

once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

Since NO and JD are basically the same group, why the hell can't they do the same with NO's back catalogue as they did with JD's? Is it just a question of Mr Sumner being NO's but not JD's frontman?

The similarities between BS and Kraftwerk's Ralf Hutter are starting to grow.

Minimal output, control freakery, and minimal contact with the press.

If there was one band out there crying out for the deluxe packaging with rarities back catalogue treatment - it's this group of cluless fuckos - do they not have an agent/manager letting them know that their main demographic is a heavenly blend of £50 man and irrational anal fanatic?

The live discs don't necessarily have to be one performance, do they? It could be a bit like Les Bains Douches with Paradiso.

When did Bernard start hating the past? Was it post-Brotherhood/Substance? After Technique?

I think, from reading the biography, there's a sense that he has always hated the past, in whichever form it comes. The media problems he encountered in 1986 with Smash Hits weren't entirely to blame.

There is no question that Bernard's singing has improved over the years, I guess it is quite difficult for him to look back fondly on those live performances when he's singing the wrong tune, changing key mid verse etc

I blame it on the Pernod

Ben wrote: Since NO and JD are basically the same group, why the hell can't they do the same with NO's back catalogue as they did with JD's? Is it just a question of Mr Sumner being NO's but not JD's frontman?

Probably started before the recent split (Joy Division remasters)...

How much of an issue is this 'potty mouth', really?

Couldn't any truly offensive/libellous banter and subbed lyrics simply be dubbed out? Surely the band's sales demographic can cope with the rest.

I'd prefer superior quality performances with the odd dub over inferior, cleaner shows.

:\pimp3:

I couldn't agree more! Hooky just needs to disappear for a long, long time into his shite excuse for a DJ or some other half assed side project.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous "heavy metal guitarist" stance he seems to get more and more into with each passing year. Pretty soon he'll be playing on his back or behind his overstuffed head.

BillONdollar wrote: once again PETER HOOK open his big fat mouth. When will this guy ever shut up and start the healing process. The more he opens his mouth, the more damaging, he does.

Enough with this BULLSH!T, already PETER HOOK!!!! Go on with the FREEBASS project and cool off once in for all, NEW ORDER! Give it a rest....

When time comes, who knows, but for heaven's sake, give it a respectful rest!

I really want the rarities to be released.