New Order vs. The Cure Rip-Off Wars

Is it just me, or does it seem that NO and The Cure have an unofficially declared rip-off war with each other??? There are a number of songs that come to mind; I won't bother at the moment listing them all (unless the topic actually gets going), but what is everyone else's thoughts on this?

The bass players could certainly be said to share a certain sound which is quite distinctive. I pretty much ignored the Cure when I was young, and I still do, so I wouldn't know who's been copying who.

I bet I can guess though.

Barney doesn't wear make up and use hairspray and eat pies like the TWAT out of the Cure :)

Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me was a great album. Digi

I have to say that ive often thought that.i picked up my first no album in 1986 and thought there music was crap and then started listing to them in about 1990 and i have to say i quiet like it the bass playing is very similar to new orders

truefaith wrote: I have to say that ive often thought that.i picked up my first no album in 1986 and thought there music was crap and then started listing to them in about 1990 and i have to say i quiet like it the bass playing is very similar to new orders

you're not making sense.

"...bought your first NO in 86, thought they were crap, and then quiet like it because the bass playing is very similar to NEW ORDER(s)..."

Jobza Goodun wrote: The bass players could certainly be said to share a certain sound which is quite distinctive.

Simon Gallup did have a white Eccleshall bass at one point.

I can only think of a handful of Cure tracks that sound like New Order,

Just Like Heaven Catch Inbetween Days A Forest

er, thats probably it. Although im no Cure expert!

Not really an undeclared war.

I seem to remember Robert Smith in an interview in the NME in the late eighties saying how much he loved the strummy guitar sound on EGG, that he ripped it off for 'In Between Days', which in my opinion is by far their best pop single.

One of their other tracks, from my Cure top 3 is 'Just Like Heaven' from which NO ripped off for 'All the Way' off Technique and bragged about it in another NME interview.

Prolly plenty of other examples about. Mind you, JD supported The Cure once or twice, (I think, Canterbury, once, 1979),so they aint exactly strangers.

Mind you.. Charlatans are taking the piss a bit lately, with first two singles from their latest album being direct NO rips.

"JD supported The Cure once or twice, (I think, Canterbury, once, 1979),so they aint exactly strangers"

im sorry did you just say that JD supported The Cure... i need some evidence on that. thats like Kraftwerk opening up for culture club.

Rumour has it that Gallup did play on Brotherhood.

kino zon wrote: "JD supported The Cure once or twice, (I think, Canterbury, once, 1979),so they aint exactly strangers"

im sorry did you just say that JD supported The Cure... i need some evidence on that. thats like Kraftwerk opening up for culture club.

I'm almost positive,without digging out the proof,that this is indeed true.I have a Cure boot from not long after Curtis' suicide where RS dedicates a song to Ian,so,at that time at least,there was a definate respect between the two,from RS at least.Seventeen Seconds & Faith were definately influenced by JD by RS' own admission

kino zon wrote: "JD supported The Cure once or twice, (I think, Canterbury, once, 1979),so they aint exactly strangers"

im sorry did you just say that JD supported The Cure... i need some evidence on that. thats like Kraftwerk opening up for culture club.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read some years ago, in 'An Ideal for Living' (I cant find my copy of this book anywhere, to confirm), that JD supported the Cure at a gig in Canterbury, Kent in I think, 1979. Can someone have a good look at their copy and confirm/deny please?

OK... just scanned JD Central, and here it is, at the Canterbury Odeon.

http://www.joydiv.org/c160679.htm

A bargain at £1.25 a ticket (!)

Matt Davis wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem that NO and The Cure have an unofficially declared rip-off war with each other??? There are a number of songs that come to mind; I won't bother at the moment listing them all (unless the topic actually gets going), but what is everyone else's thoughts on this?

I think that neither New Order nor The Cure have ripped off each other's music.

I think New Order are a greatest hits kind of band, whereas The Cure ave fuller albums, but only 2 songs that the general public will know...

As for the similarities, I don't see them that much to be honest. Except maybe the 1996 Album "Wild Mood Swings" which had a very "Technique" sound about it. I understand the bass players as well...

And for the sake of arguement, which band loves their intros more? New Order or the Cure?

new order have some outrageously long intros, and so do the cure, but I think they use it more often that it becomes annoying.

Burt Reynolds wrote: OK... just scanned JD Central, and here it is, at the Canterbury Odeon.

http://www.joydiv.org/c160679.htm

A bargain at £1.25 a ticket (!)

WOW!!! (IMO) I cant believe that a band that is so much superior, and legendary(JD) opened up for a lesser band...

New Order are a brilliant singles band.

The Cure make better albums (if one thinks of an album as a collection of songs that have a cohesive feel, flow, theme, and take one on some sort of emotional journey).

There are a few superficial similarities between The Cure and NO's sound, but I think that they are very distinct and different bands.

And for what its worth, Robert Smith maybe be an overweight pie eating drunk who needs to cut his hair, but he is a brilliant songwriter and some of his lyrics are utterly fantastic.

I like The Cure and New Order equally, though I listen to New Order more. Most people here in the US who like the Cure generally like New Order, and vice verse. This hatred between Cure fans and NO fans seems to be mainly a UK thing, which I have never really understood, because musically, I think both bands are excellent and very distinctive.

Another thing......in the UK New Order seems to have this sort of "Lad" or "football hooligan" following, right? its always struck me as funny, because I don't think of New Order as being a macho beer drinking "lets get into a row" music in any way......

Again...seems to be primarily a UK thing.......but of course, I find this to be fascinating and completely charming and awesome! :) I suppose UK football fans have better musical tastes than American sports fans. :)

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Rumour has it that Gallup did play on Brotherhood.

Eh, what???? Sources Please!!!

Ok, here's some samples (some of this is obviously JD):

The Cure's rip off's: Warsaw vs Killing an Arab (the main riff ought to stand out instantly) Atrocity Exhibition vs Pornography (tribal drums, chaotic guitar) Dreams Never End vs In Between Days (this is perhaps the clearest one) Blue Monday vs The Walk (released same year) I Remember Nothing vs. Disintegration (same synth and broken glass effects!)

New Order's rip off's (they are entitled by this point!): A Forest vs This Time of Night and Crystal (that well known bass line which is now practically public domain) Just Like Heaven vs All the Way (this is a very commonly cited one)

Those are just ones that come to my mind. I've read many other examples in some other JD/NO forums. I think at some point Barnie and Co just thought "Well, instead of filing a lawsuit, we'll just play the game!"

Matt Davis wrote: Ok, here's some samples (some of this is obviously JD):

The Cure's rip off's: Warsaw vs Killing an Arab (the main riff ought to stand out instantly) Atrocity Exhibition vs Pornography (tribal drums, chaotic guitar) Dreams Never End vs In Between Days (this is perhaps the clearest one) Blue Monday vs The Walk (released same year) I Remember Nothing vs. Disintegration (same synth and broken glass effects!)

New Order's rip off's (they are entitled by this point!): A Forest vs This Time of Night and Crystal (that well known bass line which is now practically public domain) Just Like Heaven vs All the Way (this is a very commonly cited one)

Those are just ones that come to my mind. I've read many other examples in some other JD/NO forums. I think at some point Barnie and Co just thought "Well, instead of filing a lawsuit, we'll just play the game!"

Yup.. I think theres an interview with NO in NME around the release of Technique, where they basically say exactly that re: 'All the Way', i.e. both bands been nicking bits off each other for years. The idea of lawsuits doesnt ever seem to have been considered, making one think its a game of one-upmanship.

Then again, no song is a total rip-off of either, and in the end, music is derivative. To be influenced by each other is a sign of mutual respect. The Charlatans are kinda taking the piss though.

around 80-87 ish, or further, surely new order,cure,cocteau's were a hand in hand movement.heavy bass,keyboards,dreamy music. whats wrong with that? they were all ace and i loved them all.sorry about that,is that fucking allowed or what ? to say cure nicked that bass line,or cocteau's knicked new order,or new order nicked whatever shows you have complicated it all too much .its simple ( well it was at the time ) they were at a certain time,and a type of music that was better than the chart shit at the stage. so all they are all fucking great.new order v cure wtf.

do bother to provide your list please matt

In my opinion many Cure albums were influenced by the sound of Joy Division and New Order...

loukas ar wrote: In my opinion many Cure albums were influenced by the sound of Joy Division and New Order...

thats bollocks,in my opinion

The Walk is pretty obvious, and came out a few months after Blue Monday shot up the charts, so the motivation isn't too hard to guess. It's also a shit song.

It goes beyond the songs, though; Hook and Robert Smith got into the six-string basses right about the same time, so there're some sonic similarities there (Cocteaus used 'em too).

There's a Cure cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart out there somewhere (for an Australian radio station?). Doesn't sound that great, but the Cure fans might find it worth tracking down.

I like some of the Cure's stuff (particularly their use of the six-string bass) and have a few albums, but I can only take so much whiny self-indulgence. The Order seem unable to take themselves quite so seriously.

Banshee hit the nail right on the head. Just because bands share similar themes, sounds etc doesn't always mean they're ripping each other off. Should Killing Joke be brought to book for using tribal drumming? Should we burn our copies of Pink Wire because some tracks vaguely resemble The Ramones?

The Cure tend to take a miserable bedsit approach while JD were more about confronting the troubles facing them (Heart and Soul and Disorder spring to mind). While it is possible that Ian would have went on about being lost in a forest, there'd have been more of an existentialist approach to it. Bobby gives us goffick melancholy and discontent.

Would it be possible that NO were miffed that The Cure could translate all their exposed failings into multi platinum success and sold out stadiums around the world?

Chase wrote: The Walk is pretty obvious, and came out a few months after Blue Monday shot up the charts, so the motivation isn't too hard to guess. It's also a shit song.

It goes beyond the songs, though; Hook and Robert Smith got into the six-string basses right about the same time, so there're some sonic similarities there (Cocteaus used 'em too).

There's a Cure cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart out there somewhere (for an Australian radio station?). Doesn't sound that great, but the Cure fans might find it worth tracking down.

I like some of the Cure's stuff (particularly their use of the six-string bass) and have a few albums, but I can only take so much whiny self-indulgence. The Order seem unable to take themselves quite so seriously.

Hooky used the 6-string on Heart & Soul,1980.I'm pretty sure The Cure were no-where near 6-strings then.I could be wrong......

kel wrote:

Chase wrote: The Walk is pretty obvious, and came out a few months after Blue Monday shot up the charts, so the motivation isn't too hard to guess. It's also a shit song.

It goes beyond the songs, though; Hook and Robert Smith got into the six-string basses right about the same time, so there're some sonic similarities there (Cocteaus used 'em too).

There's a Cure cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart out there somewhere (for an Australian radio station?). Doesn't sound that great, but the Cure fans might find it worth tracking down.

I like some of the Cure's stuff (particularly their use of the six-string bass) and have a few albums, but I can only take so much whiny self-indulgence. The Order seem unable to take themselves quite so seriously.

Hooky used the 6-string on Heart & Soul,1980.I'm pretty sure The Cure were no-where near 6-strings then.I could be wrong......

Quite true. Hooky first started using 6-string on Closer, whereas it was until a year later that the instrument made it's debut for The Cure (on their Faith album-quite a nice album, by the way!)

I also think that The Cure material on Head on The Door, Kiss Me and Disintegration is heavily influenced by Power, Corruption and Lies. Just listen to tracks such as In Between Days, Just Like Heaven, etc. to see what I mean.

Am I the only person who finds Robert Smith's voice really grating?

Major Tarantino wrote: Am I the only person who finds Robert Smith's voice really grating?

Think Digi might be with you on that one...

Snorri xxx