Brotherhood

Listening to "As it is, when it was", "Broken Promise", "Way of Life".

Seems a lot of the songs on Brotherhood can be about Sumner and Hooky's tenuous relationship (ie; brotherhood), does anyone agree? I'm sure I'm 22 years late with this observation. If so... sorry?

Dont know about that, but out of all the albums this is the one i tend to not skip tracks on, never been my favourite but its close.

Interesting. I know I should've searched this site first, but here's what I found under "Music", there are some choice quotes from the band themselves looking back at "Brotherhood"

http://www.neworderonline.com/Common/ReviewView.aspx?ReviewID=26

Peter Hook: "There are some really good songs on it. Some of the best music Is made when you're desperately unhappy or desperately fighting, Isn't it?"Bernard Sumner: "It's not as good as Low-Life. I remember going on holiday to Corfu, playing it on a Walkman and thinking, 'Fucking hell, that's shit.' What songs are on it? [Uncut reels off tracklisting]. Really? Well, fuck that, then. It sounds like a good album."

"Every Little Counts" is interesting too if listening to the album in the context of knowing that the infighting was going on.

Anyway, yeah, I least listen to "Brotherhood" too, but I gotta say, it's interesting to listen to given the possible context.

I should think the lyrics are more to do with personal relationships i.e partners, rather than band mates, but I could be wrong,

i always think there could be some sly digs in electronic and monaco lyrics at each other, but not so much in new orders, don't shit on your own door step as they say.

I think Brotherhood has the best songs that should have been singles.."Wierdo" and "As It Is When It Was" screamed airplay, but in terms of the actual songs, I guess Bernards lyrics are open to interpretation.

nmc wrote: Seems a lot of the songs on Brotherhood can be about Sumner and Hooky's tenuous relationship (ie; brotherhood), does anyone agree? I'm sure I'm 22 years late with this observation. If so... sorry?

er...

How about Bizarre Love Triangle??

Indeed!

On Brotherhood I like Paradise, Angel Dust, BLT, and the one about child molestors, All day Long.

I think the rest of the album is pretty bad....poorly written songs with crappy sounding guitars.

of course, I aslo think new Order are at thier worst when they try to be a rock band.

Well to each thier own, you know? :)

Never liked it much at first but it matured about a year later , late 1987, and was a good soundtrack to Vodka fuelled nights and that era around the Wembley Arena Dec 87 gig

Chris Nash wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: Well to each thier own, you know? :)

Absolutely

Totally!

You know...my girlfriend actually likes a lot of the guitar heavy tracks on the first side of Brotherhood quite a lot, so we have this debate all the time. I definately prefer the more electronic stuff.

I think that the song Crystal is New Order's best marriage of guitar rock and dance.....cause its got those great garage rock guitar riffs.....a drum beat the is sort of garage but dancey as well, and then those beautiful keyboard melodies in bag fat washes all over the song.......it really works.

Chris Nash wrote: The guitar-based tracks on 'Brotherhood' are great. I always think New Order sound best when they succeed in being a 'rock' band.

I think NO became more of a "rock" band when Gillian left and was replaced with Phil. As Phil is not as accomplished on keyboard as Gillian, a lot of the live keyboards were produced via hard drive ( a point Zachery made on a different thread).

I have been listening recently to some of the eighties concerts recently (thanks to BItTorrent and some generous people here) and you can really here the difference, even with the late 90's performance involving Gillian.

I wonder how a NO live performance would have sounded with both Gillian and Phil playing.............. maybe we will find out sometime

Funny, my impression , based on not much really, is that Brotherhood was when NO were at their least conflicted - maybe that's because the album seems the most cohesive of all of theirs to me.

Chris Nash wrote: The guitar-based tracks on 'Brotherhood' are great. I always think New Order sound best when they succeed in being a 'rock' band.

2

Was great to listen to the vynyl pissed on vodka in 1987 with a battered old stylus that distorted the guitars into a Sonic Youth type feedback scream whilst all the yuppies tried to look cool with their Substance Cds.The twats

"OK MUTHAFUCKERS ,THIS ONE'S CALLED WAY OF LIFE... AND IT'S OFF OUR NEW ALBUM BROTHERHOOD WHICH IS OUT NOW ON QWEST RECORDS"

Hooky's bass is really high up in the mix on this album. Lots of really good songs on it. Listening to it more frequently after being saturated by lowlife and technique

recycle wrote:

Chris Nash wrote: The guitar-based tracks on 'Brotherhood' are great. I always think New Order sound best when they succeed in being a 'rock' band.

I think NO became more of a "rock" band when Gillian left and was replaced with Phil. As Phil is not as accomplished on keyboard as Gillian, a lot of the live keyboards were produced via hard drive ( a point Zachery made on a different thread).

I have been listening recently to some of the eighties concerts recently (thanks to BItTorrent and some generous people here) and you can really here the difference, even with the late 90's performance involving Gillian.

I wonder how a NO live performance would have sounded with both Gillian and Phil playing.............. maybe we will find out sometime

Yes indeed! I totally agree!

I think the NO did sound a bit better live with Gillian because she is a fantastic keyboard player and played a lot of the main synth parts by hand...where as Phil doesnt do that as much because he is simply not not as good a synth player as Gillian.....

Though I did love a lot of the improvised stuff Phil did on the synths during the 05=06 live versions of Blue Monday.

I would love to hear a New Order concert with both Phil and Gillian playing...that would be amazing!

Oh yes....Gillian was a pretty good guitarist as well. Thats her playing that beautiful lead guitar line on Dream Attack.

People really seem to criminally underrate Gillian and what she brought to New Order.

She brought a lot.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

recycle wrote:

Chris Nash wrote: The guitar-based tracks on 'Brotherhood' are great. I always think New Order sound best when they succeed in being a 'rock' band.

I think NO became more of a "rock" band when Gillian left and was replaced with Phil. As Phil is not as accomplished on keyboard as Gillian, a lot of the live keyboards were produced via hard drive ( a point Zachery made on a different thread).

I have been listening recently to some of the eighties concerts recently (thanks to BItTorrent and some generous people here) and you can really here the difference, even with the late 90's performance involving Gillian.

I wonder how a NO live performance would have sounded with both Gillian and Phil playing.............. maybe we will find out sometime

Yes indeed! I totally agree!

I think the NO did sound a bit better live with Gillian because she is a fantastic keyboard player and played a lot of the main synth parts by hand...where as Phil doesnt do that as much because he is simply not not as good a synth player as Gillian.....

Though I did love a lot of the improvised stuff Phil did on the synths during the 05=06 live versions of Blue Monday.

I would love to hear a New Order concert with both Phil and Gillian playing...that would be amazing!

Oh yes....Gillian was a pretty good guitarist as well. Thats her playing that beautiful lead guitar line on Dream Attack.

People really seem to criminally underrate Gillian and what she brought to New Order.

She brought a lot.

yes you are right, people do seem to under rate her.... as highlighted here:

http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=41584://

New Order's songs can be pretty much anything, as many of their lyrics are quite vague, and can be interpreted many ways.