New Order the greatest?

Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

I normally find it hard to think of any other bands

The only other one in my lifetime would be Kraftwerk, and its a tough call, cos there may not have been one without the other.

Ever

Naa, Batman & Robin

Anytime anyone asks me "what music do you like?"

Theres only one answer, "New Order"

no pottsy's the greatest

his single said so

I would say Paul Weller is up there, but his music has tended not to be so varied nor innovative as New Orders.

NO Regret wrote: Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

Lets get real for a second. And bear in mind i'm not a fan of all these bands:

The Clash REM Pixies David Bowie Kraftwerk Black Flag Moby The Smiths Cocteau Twins Public Enemy Grand master Flash Roxy Music The Human League Blondie Spiritualized I could go on forever....

Although the question is so vague its meaningless. So a big from me.

Moby is pushing it a bit there, Liam.

I was going to add Public Enemy, but they are there already. Sugarhill Gang, Orbital mebbe.

Burt Reynolds wrote: Moby is pushing it a bit there, Liam.

I was going to add Public Enemy, but they are there already. Sugarhill Gang, Orbital mebbe.

Au contraire.

He's done loads of albums, each varying in style. Most of them are quite good. he's sold a shitload of records, been very influential, not only in terms of songwriting but in marketing of music as well. And as for anti establishment, well, whatever that means, he's a hippy vegan who slags off the government. So I suppose that makes him anti establishment.

Like I said, meaningless question. But if you look at the bigger picture, achieved a hell of a lot more than new Order.

Uncle Liam wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Moby is pushing it a bit there, Liam.

I was going to add Public Enemy, but they are there already. Sugarhill Gang, Orbital mebbe.

Au contraire.

He's done loads of albums, each varying in style. Most of them are quite good. he's sold a shitload of records, been very influential, not only in terms of songwriting but in marketing of music as well. And as for anti establishment, well, whatever that means, he's a hippy vegan who slags off the government. So I suppose that makes him anti establishment.

Like I said, meaningless question. But if you look at the bigger picture, achieved a hell of a lot more than new Order.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree there. Personally, I've never quite got him musically. The only one of those things i actually respect him for, is that he does what he wants; he started with techno, does a bit of punk and the odd moment of perfect eighties style guitar/synth pop; its the formulaic gospel choir stuff that always got on my tits i spose.

It will be interesting to see where he is in a decade, in terms of longevity.

And...

The thread used the word 'influential'.

No one has said Joy Division.

ummm....NO.

Burt Reynolds wrote: And...

The thread used the word 'influential'.

No one has said Joy Division.

Well, it's a given isn't?

To me, New Order is the greatest, that's why they're my favourite band. They wouldn't be my favourite if I didn't think they were the best.

Of course there are others who are influential, but not innovative, others are innovative, but not varied, others are successful, but not independent... When I think of New Order, I cannot dissociate it with Joy Division, it's their root, their start and their history. So with Joy Division as their original self, New Order have it all; the past, the influence, the creativity, the trend, the nightclub, the art covers, the independent label, the major, the boss, the manager, the producer, underground, pop, original, formulaic, rock, soft, macho, gay, you name it, New Order have it all.

I'm a bigger fan of Depeche, so shoot me, but I find New Order to be my third favorite. Followed closely by the Hives. Though Barney has inspired me to get ridiculous indie haircuts in the past. And wear white dress shirts, but thats a different story.

Who's butt are you kissing? This is a New Order fansite!

Joy Division + New Order = #1? Sure, why not.

Bono and U2 are #2, thou I don't listen to them.

A Flock of Seagulls is #13789

Canuck21 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: And...

The thread used the word 'influential'.

No one has said Joy Division.

Well, it's a given isn't?

To me, New Order is the greatest, that's why they're my favourite band. They wouldn't be my favourite if I didn't think they were the best.

Of course there are others who are influential, but not innovative, others are innovative, but not varied, others are successful, but not independent... When I think of New Order, I cannot dissociate it with Joy Division, it's their root, their start and their history. So with Joy Division as their original self, New Order have it all; the past, the influence, the creativity, the trend, the nightclub, the art covers, the independent label, the major, the boss, the manager, the producer, underground, pop, original, formulaic, rock, soft, macho, gay, you name it, New Order have it all.

Well said! I completely agree. But I am biased because I love JD/NO. They have been my favorites and always will be. Their music motivates me when I need a push, makes me smile when I'm sad, etc. I listen to them every single day.

I know, I'm crazy.:)

NO Regret wrote: Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

Amen.

Yep. No one else like 'em. OK, Modest Mouse, but still, New Order is in its own world/dimension/universe.

Not sure if they were all that ground breaking tbh. I would say Joy Division, Kraftwerk, The Smiths, Sex Pistols.

But a lot of my fav bands arent necessarily goundbreaking or influential, they just build on these foundations and improve them.

Chris Nash wrote: Liam - you could have mentioned The Doors, Iggy Pop, Velvet Underground - but also some of the proper punk bands - Crass (Hooky confessed to being a fan) Conflict, Discharge, The Subhumans, etc.

don't think the punk bands really fill the varied criteria, but another omission is the beatles. know they aren't anti establishment now, but don't forget the we're bigger than god fracas, & their legacy lives on some 40 odd years later.

another would be radiohead, bet they'd come out higher than new order on any website other than a new order/ jd fan based one if you were to ask the same question.

bowie

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Old Lead Foot wrote: no pottsy's the greatest

I was gonna say the same thing...

so either great minds think alike...or you are a frigging retard like me!!!

I don't care either way...I'm happy...I think...

we must be on a level, wich is fine, as long as its not level 42

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Moby is pushing it a bit there, Liam.

I was going to add Public Enemy, but they are there already. Sugarhill Gang, Orbital mebbe.

Au contraire.

He's done loads of albums, each varying in style. Most of them are quite good. he's sold a shitload of records, been very influential, not only in terms of songwriting but in marketing of music as well. And as for anti establishment, well, whatever that means, he's a hippy vegan who slags off the government. So I suppose that makes him anti establishment.

Like I said, meaningless question. But if you look at the bigger picture, achieved a hell of a lot more than new Order.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree there. Personally, I've never quite got him musically. The only one of those things i actually respect him for, is that he does what he wants; he started with techno, does a bit of punk and the odd moment of perfect eighties style guitar/synth pop; its the formulaic gospel choir stuff that always got on my tits i spose.

It will be interesting to see where he is in a decade, in terms of longevity.

Longevity? he's been active as a professional musician since the early 80's, and released his first album in 1992!

Uncle Liam wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

Lets get real for a second. And bear in mind i'm not a fan of all these bands:

The Clash - only arround for what 8 years? REM - a good choice. But their music style has essentially stayed the same. Pixies - a good choice David Bowie - I think this guy is awesome in terms of output, reinventing himself, being around since late 60's. Kraftwerk - went off the boil after 81 Black Flag - never heard of Moby - done some decent stuff, done some tosh, not been around long enough to compare The Smiths - 4 year career yet they achieved so much Cocteau Twins - still going? Public Enemy - hugely inspirational but were around for long? Grand master Flash - wasnt around long enough Roxy Music - good choice The Human League - a different league. Maybe Champtionship. Blondie - loved them and comparable Spiritualized - who? I could go on forever....

Although the question is so vague its meaningless. So a big from me.

I didnt think it was that vague a question.

You've never heard of Spiritualized?

Uncle Liam wrote: You've never heard of Spiritualized?

nope. name me a song?

NO Regret wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

Lets get real for a second. And bear in mind i'm not a fan of all these bands:

The Clash - only arround for what 8 years? REM - a good choice. But their music style has essentially stayed the same. Pixies - a good choice David Bowie - I think this guy is awesome in terms of output, reinventing himself, being around since late 60's. Kraftwerk - went off the boil after 81 Black Flag - never heard of Moby - done some decent stuff, done some tosh, not been around long enough to compare The Smiths - 4 year career yet they achieved so much Cocteau Twins - still going? Public Enemy - hugely inspirational but were around for long? Grand master Flash - wasnt around long enough Roxy Music - good choice The Human League - a different league. Maybe Champtionship. Blondie - loved them and comparable Spiritualized - who? I could go on forever....

Although the question is so vague its meaningless. So a big from me.

I didnt think it was that vague a question.

it could be a whole lot more succint - "most unique" is one criteria that is particularly questionable for instance

NO Regret wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: You've never heard of Spiritualized?

nope. name me a song?

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space

I'm also quite perplexed as to why you think REM's musical style has stayed the same. I think every album they've done hasa different style and a different theme. Go and compare Green to Document. Then compare automatic for the Peopple to Monster. New Advenutures in the Hi Fi to Up. Reveal to Around the Sun and Accelerate.

And how has Moby not been around long enough? Like I said, released his first album sixteen years ago, and has been a professional musician since 1982. How much longer does he need to be?

not that longevity is a a particularly good, or useful measure for questions like this. Its like what yoyu say about The Clash, around for only eight years. Only? Now i'm no fan of the Clash, but to say they arent one of the most unique, forward thinking and influential bands around is just ignorance.

REM

Uncle Liam wrote:

NO Regret wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: You've never heard of Spiritualized?

nope. name me a song?

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space

I'm also quite perplexed as to why you think REM's musical style has stayed the same. I think every album they've done hasa different style and a different theme. Go and compare Green to Document. Then compare automatic for the Peopple to Monster. New Advenutures in the Hi Fi to Up. Reveal to Around the Sun and Accelerate.

And how has Moby not been around long enough? Like I said, released his first album sixteen years ago, and has been a professional musician since 1982. How much longer does he need to be?

not that longevity is a a particularly good, or useful measure for questions like this. Its like what yoyu say about The Clash, around for only eight years. Only? Now i'm no fan of the Clash, but to say they arent one of the most unique, forward thinking and influential bands around is just ignorance.

erm....Floating In Space....er....never heard of it.....any others?

I take your point about REM and I concede youre probably right. Theyve done soft rock, hard rock, a bit of electronica, ballads adn some guitar songs.

The Clash also covered many styles: punk, rock, dance, ska to name but a few.

Not sure about The Bloodhound Gang though

To quote international on New Order.

New Order should never have been called New Order.

Bernard Sumner should have never have been a lead singer.

Joy Division's survivors should have never have made dance music.

New Order should never have composed the best selling 12 inch record of all times.

New Order should never have disguised themselves as hard rockers for the Touched by the hand of God video.

US kids addicted to MTV should never have taken it for granted.

New Order should never have earnt a lot of money, only to be bankrupted because of the Hacienda, their club in Manchester.

The Hacienda should never have opened.

The Hacienda should never have closed.

New Order never properly signed with Tony Wilson from Factory Records but followed all the label's history, from the punk debuts to the Acid House ending.

New Order should never have signed in the US of A on Q west, Quincy Jones' soul music label, by Quincy thought that it was "the best Brit band ! Much better than the Sex Pistols!".

Suppose New Order hadn't written Blue Monday, Neil Tennant would never have founded the Pet Shop Boys.

He would still be a journalist.

New Order don't use make up like The Cure, don't dress up like Depeche Mode and don't have haircuts like the Human league.

New Order are a serious band, bu they weren't afraid to compose the official British anthem for the World Cup 1990.

England should never have lost this World Cup, Any World Cup.

New Order can be outrageously cold like hard dance. Never narrow minded.

New Order doesn't dance, but really likes it anyway.

They stood there, without saying a word to their audience. It was cool.

Nowadays they spend most of their time talking & doing encores every night. It's cool.

New Order is a weird band: Peter Hook has a strange way to hold his bass, Steven to use his drums, Barney to dance and Gillian to, uh, well Gillian you know.

If Ian Curtis hadn't commited suicide, New Order would never have existed.

If New Order hadn't played in New-York, they would never discovered Larry Levan's Paradise Garage and John Jellybean Benitez's Fun House.

pretty much sums up that new order is fecking genius, but not the best. Pretty close though.

what a load of prententious tripe!

Smells of Paul Morley to me

Blaming them for the Pet Shop Boys is a bit mean though.

Digi Mike convinced me that the Cure and Fat Bob are tops!

I do have to say New order are the best dancers. I mean I wish I could pull off that blue monday jig, but sadly I didnt have the technique era substance aid. Therefore i'll hopefully abuse some prescription meds and dance about to confusion till I vomit. Thank you New Order for inspiring me to dance.

New Order is my favorite artist, but to answer the title of the thread i have to say... NO! The question/title is so general and not specific.

Indeed!

The Sub-Cultured Perfect Kisser*!* wrote: New Order is my favorite artist, but to answer the title of the thread i have to say... NO! The question/title is so general and not specific.

Indeed!

Do you really want me to post

1. which band is the most unique?
2. which band is the coolest?
3. which band is the most genre crossing? etc

I do hope not as I CBA!

I don't see what's so hard with this question. You answer this question with logic and with your heart. For most of us, our heart says that their music is the best. There is no other artist's work I like more than New Order and Joy Division. Then you look at it logically. Was the band innovative, creative, diverse, influential? Yes to all. Did they made history? Yes. Did a new genre born because of them? I'd say yes, the term alternative dance practically came up for them and you can't think of post-punk without thinking of Joy Division. Did they contribute to the music industry's evolution? Yes, with their music, but also with their nightclub. That's a lot of ground covered.

There are other great artists out there, but few have touched so many aspects of the music industry and that is why New Order is unique. The only thing New Order don't have is recognition from the mass. While everyone knows The Beatles, U2, Radiohead, etc., few know New Order and those who've heard of New Order only know them as the band behind "Blue Monday", "Bizarre Love Triangle" and "True Faith". New Order is no doubt the best and most influential band that nobody knows.

Canuck21 wrote: I don't see what's so hard with this question. You answer this question with logic and with your heart. For most of us, our heart says that their music is the best. There is no other artist's work I like more than New Order and Joy Division. Then you look at it logically. Was the band innovative, creative, diverse, influential? Yes to all. Did they made history? Yes. Did a new genre born because of them? I'd say yes, the term alternative dance practically came up for them and you can't think of post-punk without thinking of Joy Division. Did they contribute to the music industry's evolution? Yes, with their music, but also with their nightclub. That's a lot of ground covered.

There are other great artists out there, but few have touched so many aspects of the music industry and that is why New Order is unique. The only thing New Order don't have is recognition from the mass. While everyone knows The Beatles, U2, Radiohead, etc., few know New Order and those who've heard of New Order only know them as the band behind "Blue Monday", "Bizarre Love Triangle" and "True Faith". New Order is no doubt the best and most influential band that nobody knows.

Finally, someone sings from the same sheet as me and understands the question.

Thank you lord and thank you Canuck. I was started to lose my faith for a moment.

hibster wrote:

NO Regret wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Have New Order been the most influential, ground-breaking, consistant, creative, greatest, unique, varied musical styled, trend setting, anti-establishment, soundtrack of our lives band ever?

I certainly cant think of any other band that fits the bill for New Order's lifespan.

Lets get real for a second. And bear in mind i'm not a fan of all these bands:

The Clash - only arround for what 8 years? REM - a good choice. But their music style has essentially stayed the same. Pixies - a good choice David Bowie - I think this guy is awesome in terms of output, reinventing himself, being around since late 60's. Kraftwerk - went off the boil after 81 Black Flag - never heard of Moby - done some decent stuff, done some tosh, not been around long enough to compare The Smiths - 4 year career yet they achieved so much Cocteau Twins - still going? Public Enemy - hugely inspirational but were around for long? Grand master Flash - wasnt around long enough Roxy Music - good choice The Human League - a different league. Maybe Champtionship. Blondie - loved them and comparable Spiritualized - who? I could go on forever....

Although the question is so vague its meaningless. So a big from me.

I didnt think it was that vague a question.

it could be a whole lot more succint - "most unique" is one criteria that is particularly questionable for instance

How is something 'most unique'? More one of a kind than something else? Hmm?

Anyway, the question is vague. Music is subjective as all hell, so how could anyone agree?

Anyway, I think they are up there. I don't know of any music so varied, so poetic, so beautiful, so fantastic to listen to. I could listen to 99% of their songs. Have you ever come across anything like The Perfect Kiss? Jeremy Clarkson once said that an Aston Martin was the most beautiful thing ever designed by humans. I think TPK is better.

What about GONG ?

NO + JD = the greatest bands ever. Simple Formulae for a simple question. But as I also love detroit techno must mention Underground Resistance as the greatest techno label ever. P.s. I liked the Paul Morley inspired post but then again I liked Paul Morley JD book as I've already mentioned elsewhere on this site.

Other best bands Kraftwerk, Drexcyia, Spacemen 3 and Spiritualized, basic Channel, Jesus and Mary Chain but none come close to NO / JD

The Shadow wrote: But as I also love detroit techno must mention Underground Resistance as the greatest techno label ever.

In terms of Detroit Techno, they were certainly influenced by what New Order (and Kraftwerk) did in terms of electronic music - Derrick May admits to that!

To throw a few names into the hat (in terms of electronic music influences):

BBC Radiophonic Workshop (Delia Derbyshire et al) Kraftwerk (as has been mentioned before) Yellow Magic Orchestra (not as popular as Kraftewerk, but still influential) Derrick May/Juan Atkins/Kevin Saunderson/Carl Craig

Certainly, Joy Division and New Order have been influential, and still are to bands appearing nowadays.

Agreed New Order influenced detroit techno and Kraftwerk more so. Infact NO were the reason I started going to raves, techno parties and the music. Also agree about D. May and Juan Atkins, although UR are more my time and therefore influence. Delia Derbyshire is an unsung heroine. Dr Who theme still sounds like the future

The Shadow wrote: Agreed New Order influenced detroit techno and Kraftwerk more so. Infact NO were the reason I started going to raves, techno parties and the music. Also agree about D. May and Juan Atkins, although UR are more my time and therefore influence. Delia Derbyshire is an unsung heroine. Dr Who theme still sounds like the future

Yeah, I must seek out some more UR stuff - I definitely like what I hear, and (A Guy Called) Gerald is apparently going to be releasing some stuff on UR shortly... :)

For anyone interested in Detroit techno, check out the film "High Tech Soul" - essential viewing.

And am definitely looking forward to seeing Model 500 live in Barca next month (believe Al's going to see them at the Bang Face Weekender in just over a week) - quality stuff!

I've got a copy of high tech soul goo insight into the sound of the D.

Model 500 playing live that shoudl be good!! (thats an understatement) LAso this years Sonar festival Jeff Mill and Mike Banks of UR are playing together for the 1st tiem since 92. There doing the rings of Saturn LP. Not sure if updated stuff or the original album, shoudl be amazing shame I can;t go!

I have to agree that this is a vague question, and a silly one to ask on a new order fan board. I love the band, but definitely not "the greatest" and not the "most influential" in my catalog of music, as that is entirely subjective.

Chris Nash wrote: Velvet Underground.

for influencial purposes: velvet underground. (although they're not really of 'my generation.')

The Shadow wrote: Agreed New Order influenced detroit techno and Kraftwerk more so. Infact NO were the reason I started going to raves, techno parties and the music. Also agree about D. May and Juan Atkins, although UR are more my time and therefore influence. Delia Derbyshire is an unsung heroine. Dr Who theme still sounds like the future

Wrong! UR Were Techno's (in its purest sense)best 'band', but the label wasn't. Too many spin-offs once BANKS fucked off from MILLS - RED Planet, etc.. Best techno label was/is Probe Still got 90% of all UR vinyl ever released. Seawolf, Punisher, Jupiter jazz ..FUCk over all else, even Mayday, Magic Juan. Got to see UR in 91' in the smoke twice. Awesome.

Recently went to see Autechre & Black Dog in Toon'- nice.

New Black Dog album is awesome, Radio Scarecrow very highly recommended to techno lovers on this board. Still think UR is the best label, releasing strong releases again, fav UR track Final Frontier. Nice speaking to fellow New order and Detroit fans

I do enjoy Rupesh Cartel, a newer synthpop group from sweeden. check them out on myspace if your ever in need of a quick synth fix.

My favourites [greatest] bands [without New Order]:

DEPECHE MODE[It's second my idols except NO] THE SISTERS OF MERCY[It's my favourite gothic rock band[except Joy Division], RAMMSTEIN[It's my favourite Industrial metal band] GARBAGE [It's my favourite female singer] JOY DIVISION[It's not the same like NO,Curtis - you are my god of sorror] KRAFTWERK [My gods of electronic] MOBY METALLICA [It's my favourite classic metal band] AC-DC [Rock'n'roll damnation] LIMP BIZKIT [No comments] THE MISSION [One more gothic rock band,that i like it] DAVE GAHAN [Personal jesus of DM] FOJE[The best rock band from my country] ANDRIUS MAMONTOVAS[The best rock male artist from my country]

Canuck21 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: And...

The thread used the word 'influential'.

No one has said Joy Division.

Well, it's a given isn't?

To me, New Order is the greatest, that's why they're my favourite band. They wouldn't be my favourite if I didn't think they were the best.

Of course there are others who are influential, but not innovative, others are innovative, but not varied, others are successful, but not independent... When I think of New Order, I cannot dissociate it with Joy Division, it's their root, their start and their history. So with Joy Division as their original self, New Order have it all; the past, the influence, the creativity, the trend, the nightclub, the art covers, the independent label, the major, the boss, the manager, the producer, underground, pop, original, formulaic, rock, soft, macho, gay, you name it, New Order have it all.

Sounds pretty much like the Velvets to me :D